The Truth About Ruth - Part 2 - Merge

[NDC22]

I'm really vey okay (read not complaining) with the logic behind limiting chatter to people that make an investment in the site through regular and ongoing participation. Makes total sense.

For certain it limits the likes of a Josh Duggar type because god knows he couldn't take the time from his lazy schedule to post 75 things that include more than five words.

[twin2]

Can we start a thread just for newbies to post random thoughts?

Yay! Only 69 more posts needed. :dance:

Head on over to the SOTDRT. Lots of places over there to get your feet wet!

[Coconut Flan]

The story of the Razing Ruth fraud is spreading:

pandce.proboards.com/thread/200604/fundie-friday-razing-ruth-fraud

[Amelie]

Thank you Curious.

(post number 7!)

[Tallulah]

Can we start a thread just for newbies to post random thoughts?

Yay! Only 69 more posts needed. :dance:

Yes please! How many posts do we need to start new threads? 5?

[Sass]

Can we start a thread just for newbies to post random thoughts?

Yay! Only 69 more posts needed. :dance:

On my other forum we have a thread just for that but it's a game- you post a musician and a song and the next person has to do the same but with one of the words from yours and so on and so forth.

example- I say "I hate Myself for Loving You" by Joan Jett

next person might say "I Touch Myself" by the Divinyls

[Curious]

At least these threads are bringing out the lurkers. Welcome. :D

Post some more! If you are afraid of being bitten start on the SOTDRT (although you are not required to do so). Most of us try to be gentle to newbies there. Unless you say something really incredibly stupid or Fundiesque, then all bets are off. :lol:

The Hobbies forum and Worldly Distractions are also good "get your feet wet" forums that have potentially multiple threads of interest you can post in and still be on topic :)

[Curious]

Yes please! How many posts do we need to start new threads? 5?

There is no post count restriction for starting threads in SOTDRT. It's meant for new folks to get their sea legs :)

[Curious]

On my other forum we have a thread just for that but it's a game- you post a musician and a song and the next person has to do the same but with one of the words from yours and so on and so forth.

example- I say "I hate Myself for Loving You" by Joan Jett

next person might say "I Touch Myself" by the Divinyls

That's kind of fun. If you want to start a thread like that in Worldly Distractions that would be fine.

[Tallulah]

There is no post count restriction for starting threads in SOTDRT. It's meant for new folks to get their sea legs :)

Thanks Curious! Off to SOTDRT

[polabear]

This forum is also posting about razing Ruth.

://www.lifamilies.com/chat/topic-and-thats-why-you-shouldnt-trust-people-on-the-internet-799105-1.html

[sully82]

Hi! Long time lurker, first time poster.

Anyway, what first gave me a funny feeling about Ruth was her engagement story. Seriously? (I'm operating from memory so all the details may not be 100% as they were posted) Harris proposed at the same spot his family used for generations. His father drove them in a horse and carriage. It was too much of a bad romantic comedy. Am I the only one who thought that was a little too perfect?

[nerdymama1]

I know it's frustrating for people that do not have enough posts to see Chatter to feel like they are being left out of the loop. Here is the reason that more information was provided in Chatter vs all of it being provided in one place:

As you can tell, from following this thread, that is exactly what did happen due to the fact that there are 2 people with such close names (literally 1 letter difference). Because we are following the TOU and not allowing real names to be posted, the innocent person has not had their name attached to this mess.

As others have said, knowing the real name won't change anything. If (when) she does this type of thing again, it won't be under her real name. The important thing is tying everything together and Carla B has done an amazing job finding things I knew about, but hadn't been able to dig up yet. She also found some things that I was not aware of, so I think that it was stuff that didn't even get found during the Penn Mommy scheme.

Anyway, without going into too much detail, I will try to give those that can't read Chatter yet a bit more information.

Essentially after some digging around, we discovered that RR had been posting for most of her time (both on Yuku and here on the new forum) on FJ from the same town as PM. Some googling led to her facebook which showed a trip from CA to IL which matched the IP addresses we had for her posting during the trip.

Now, I realize I said there was nothing particularly noteworthy regarding her IP addresses when I posted originally about it. At that time, we knew that her route was different than the one she had posted here on FJ, but it was a viable (if somewhat odd) route from point A to point B. Several of us theorized that since she was so worried about her identity and was posting essentially a play by play of her travel, she was simply posting a different route so that people could not track her down on the trip, if they were so inclined.

Obviously, once things really started to coming to light and we found out all this other information and the facebook page with pictures that match the exact locations and dates, it's harder for us to write it off as RR being afraid of being met out on the road somewhere. That being said, there is likely more than one person that took a vacation from California to Chicago during the same time period, so it could all be a coincidence.

We also found a twitter and blog that were asking for references for an attorney in IL, which was in the same area that her IL posts were from.

Since then, other people have found other things and have posted them, of course. We had a much more detailed summary, but we do not feel comfortable with giving out the level of detail due to the fact that it contains, not only her information, but also her kids and ex-spouse(s). No innocent people need to be tarred with this and regardless of what people think, FJ is not going to be part of that kind of action.

I would afford any other member the same protection, which I hope would be appreciated.

That's enough information to give to the FBI if anyone is inclined to do so. Since she openly solicited money on her blog, it's pretty clear she is committing fraud across the state lines using false information, ie, wire fraud.

[J'ean Skirt]

That's enough information to give to the FBI if anyone is inclined to do so. Since she openly solicited money on her blog, it's pretty clear she is committing fraud across the state lines using false information, ie, wire fraud.

The FBI isn't going to care.

Look, she may have committed criminal acts, she profited from those criminal acts. But the FBI is not going to care. It's going to be phenomenally expensive to prosecute her and it's just not going to be worth it for anyone.

Our house got broken into over a year ago, the thieves stole our laptops and other electronic equipment. We handed over all the IP data from the houses where the thieves tried to break into our servers from out laptops. The cops didn't do anything. We contacted one of the lawyers that we work with doing forensics. We asked him how much it would cost to subpoena the data about the address from the ISPs. With us doing the bulk of the legwork (part of what we do is write IP subpoenas) it was going to cost between 5 and 8 thousand dollars (including 2 court appearances) to just get the right to ask the ISPs for the identity of the people who had our hardware and were attempting to break into our servers.

This is just not interesting enough for the FBI to get involved.

ETA: The number a lot of folks "in the know" threw around a dozen years ago was the FBI wouldn't get involved in anything where the loss was less than $75,000. That's a number I still quote when relevant, but I'm pretty sure that number has gone up. I believe that even if RR got more than $75K out of folks the FBI would be totally uninterested in this case.

[longskirtlotsakids]

Right, but who is to say this isn't a ring or just one effort by an individual making much more?

And I do remember someone getting prosecuted by pretending to have cancer and bilking both the online and local community of money.

[SamuraiKatz]

What about a report to the State Attorney Generals office in CA? That can get results...and maybe enough info to make it newsworthy...Seeing her scam on the news might shake her up..

[Lainey]

Dear newbies,

Here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18393

[nerdymama1]

They might not. You're right. You can't control what prosecutors and law enforcement will do. All you can control is what you do. Since I didn't donate and I don't know all the Chatter info, I'm not going to do it, but if someone who does have all the info wants to, I don't see why not. Earlier, people were talking about how there was nothing that could be done about it, but we aren't without recourse. RR/PM did break the law and there is a place to report her for it.

[J'ean Skirt]

They might not. You're right. You can't control what prosecutors and law enforcement will do. All you can control is what you do. Since I didn't donate and I don't know all the Chatter info, I'm not going to do it, but if someone who does have all the info wants to, I don't see why not. Earlier, people were talking about how there was nothing that could be done about it, but we aren't without recourse. RR/PM did break the law and there is a place to report her for it.

If someone wants to report her, go for it. All I'm saying is that it's unlikely to go anywhere. If someone proves me wrong, well... it won't be the first time.

[Tallulah]

Dear newbies,

Here: http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewto ... 14&t=18393

Thanks Lainey!

[Palimpsest]

Hi! Long time lurker, first time poster.

Anyway, what first gave me a funny feeling about Ruth was her engagement story. Seriously? (I'm operating from memory so all the details may not be 100% as they were posted) Harris proposed at the same spot his family used for generations. His father drove them in a horse and carriage. It was too much of a bad romantic comedy. Am I the only one who thought that was a little too perfect?

Well, welcome too. :D

I missed that one, but I never read Ruth regularly. It smelled off to me very early.

To answer your question though, probably no you weren't the only person to think that. :) But what was clever about Ruth is that Fundies often have proposals that are just as flowery and romantic and over-blown. Proposals are public events. They are usually accompanied by photographers, videographers, and witnessed by the entire families of the happy couple. I'm shuddering at the thought!

[mamallama]

I'm an infrequent poster going back to the Yuku days. Has anyone mentioned yet that Ruth has defrauded us.

[Mama Mia]

The FBI isn't going to care.

Look, she may have committed criminal acts, she profited from those criminal acts. But the FBI is not going to care. It's going to be phenomenally expensive to prosecute her and it's just not going to be worth it for anyone.

Our house got broken into over a year ago, the thieves stole our laptops and other electronic equipment. We handed over all the IP data from the houses where the thieves tried to break into our servers from out laptops. The cops didn't do anything. We contacted one of the lawyers that we work with doing forensics. We asked him how much it would cost to subpoena the data about the address from the ISPs. With us doing the bulk of the legwork (part of what we do is write IP subpoenas) it was going to cost between 5 and 8 thousand dollars (including 2 court appearances) to just get the right to ask the ISPs for the identity of the people who had our hardware and were attempting to break into our servers.

This is just not interesting enough for the FBI to get involved.

ETA: The number a lot of folks "in the know" threw around a dozen years ago was the FBI wouldn't get involved in anything where the loss was less than $75,000. That's a number I still quote when relevant, but I'm pretty sure that number has gone up. I believe that even if RR got more than $75K out of folks the FBI would be totally uninterested in this case.

Couldn't agree more. My business, a non-profit was the victim of two separate fraud schemes. Both were reported to the appropriate authorities. The interest was less than 0. This is despite having substantial proof of some of the culprits. Two different types of fraud. The authorities took reports, it caused a huge amount of work for our staff, but O legal action.

The reason is because fraud and scams are unimaginably common. With Internet communications, everything being easily forged......it is truly amazing the scope and variety of fraud out there. And that's with something much more concrete than someone lying on the Internet and people voluntarily giving them money.

[Palimpsest]

I'm an infrequent poster going back to the Yuku days. Has anyone mentioned yet that Ruth has defrauded us.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

No. I think you were the first!

[Mama Mia]

What about a report to the State Attorney Generals office in CA? That can get results...and maybe enough info to make it newsworthy...Seeing her scam on the news might shake her up..

Yeah, I wouldn't think they would find it worth their time. I don't want to go into details, but when we were the victims of a very concrete and verifiable fraud they were one of the agencies we reported to .....and there is just too much of it for them to care. I will say that even our local police department was victim to the exact same scam as our agency, and even they couldn't get assistance :shock: