The Truth About Ruth - Part 2 - Merge

[Curious]

My husband does work at the legal aid organization that services NWA. Both treemom and PrincessJo can vouch for that if they wish as they have met both of us in person.

I missed your original post, so I'm glad someone quoted it. I'm also happy to know you are still here. I thought you had left after the yuku thread blow up. I hope you start posting more again!

[Lainey]

On the old board.

Welcome back. :)

[RandomTrivia]

Beatrice Sparks, a psychologist, wrote it. It's very handy, if sad, that the supposed author is found dead a few weeks after her last entry.

I think her intentions were good - people were pretty scared about drugs back then (with good reason, IMO, but it was more of a panic) and it was meant to create awareness of how your life really could go when you get mixed up in it.

Beatrice Sparks practically made a career of the anonymous diaries - she wrote/edited 8 of them. I read 3 or 4 of them recently (someone donated a stack to the library charity I volunteer with), and they're all along the same lines, heavy-handed cautionary tales about drugs, Satanic cults, AIDS, teen sex, and at least two of them have the author conveniently dying at the end. They're heavy on the moralizing (Sparks was Mormon, wonder if that influenced her themes?), but they don't come across as "real" - I'm not sure if it's because they're 30 years old, or if it's just that I'm not the target audience. Either way, the references to these books being taught in school as non-fiction are kind of worrying (isn't there anything more current, and better-written?).

Snopes has an interesting bit on Go Ask Alice, and Wikipedia refers to a couple of articles discussing Sparks' work. (One of which has possibly my favorite quote: " carve a literary career out of the body of a dead girl").

As far as Pelzer's books - I read the first one, in a horrified gawking-at-crashes sort of way. Then I read Richard Pelzer's 2nd book this week, and it was fluff in a less horrifying way - "my life was horrid, then I got off drugs and found Jeesus" sort of thing. At least one of the brothers denies the whole thing, so it's another may or may not be true mess. The NY Times had a piece in 2002 that I found a few years ago, which sort of addressed the factual side of things, but didn't really go into a lot of detail.

I wish someone would do a good in-depth investigation into both Pelzer and Sparks; it would be interesting to see what turned up.

[honeyinthesunshine]

I want to go ahead and warn anyone who reads this, that it is possibly the angriest, most expletive laden thing I’ve ever written, and if that’s going to screw with you, you’d best skip right on past.

Okay, so maybe I’m just a bitchy bitch who bitches, and I'm really late to the party here, and this post is probably not cohesive with the tone of the thread, but I didn't know where else to post it, and I’ve been thinking about this all goddamned day, and I’m getting it off my chest.

First, that response from the admins regarding the RR situation? Bullshit. You owe this community more than that. No one here is a second grader, we can handle the whole story, thanks. Simply present the facts as you understand them and get on with it. Make a definitive statement. These people donated their money, their time, their energies to RR, and they deserve more than you tacitly implying that you won’t dirty your hands to out this individual, due to a TOU that she violated to scam FJ members out of possibly thousands of dollars, but us parenthetical assholes in the comments can do it for you, and those of us who aren’t invited to the cool kids table can spend hours piecing it together.

Second, CUT THE LEGAL PEARL CLUTCHING THE FUCK OUT ALREADY. It’s part of the reason people are leaving for GOMI and the like. It’s this self important start a non profit/involve attorneys/no one can know the whole story/cliffhanger/secret facebooks/and the facade of transparency that just as cliquey and exclusive as it ever was. No one, especially not some asshole woman who apparently scammed FJ members and many others out of thousands of dollars, is coming to fucking sue you. Sweet Jesus, it’s a snark board. Cut it out. No one’s asking for directions to this chucklefuck’s house, but a rundown from the administration would be great. Further, perhaps if there were more transparency in the first place, and anyone who dissented wasn’t handed their ass on an ATI wisdom booklet, (more on this in a moment) this would’ve come out, oh, I dunno, YEARS ago, before this woman had the opportunity to personally screw hundreds of people out of their hard earned wages.

Third, regarding the TOU, here’s a newsflash for ya, NO ONE IS ENTITLED TO ANONYMITY ON THE INTERNET. It’s cute, but it’s not worth the time you took to type it, insomuch as it being legally binding. Remember that dude from 4chan who was outed by Gawker after posting pictures up the skirts of underage girls, along with other really vile shit? Yeah, buddy, he lost his house. And his Job. And virtually all of his friends. And he’s a fucking pariah now. You want anonymity, go write in your personal journal and lock your bedroom door. The internet is a public forum, and if you don’t want folks knowing what an asshat you are, you’d be wise not to make those statements in the first place. She scammed people. She took them in and she hurt members of your supposed community, and that’s your response? You put her on the naughty step until she explains herself? I’m sorry, but fuck that.

Furthermore, and perhaps most importantly, I want to address the HIGH POST COUNT MEMBERS!!! and those that buy into the idea that your post count means that your opinion matters more: It doesn’t. While reading through the truth about ruth 2 thread, somebody actually intoned that if you were a low post count member, that you really shouldn’t get involved in this particular thread. What in the ever loving fuck? Really? So those people who were, I don’t know, perhaps intimidated about posting here after seeing the invective hurled at new members by the old guard, their experiences don’t matter? Their emotional investment isn’t as important as someone who treats FJ like it’s their job? Fuck that. Further, the whole RR thing, if we want to get real, is partially your fault, high-count-holier-than-thou posters. Your nastiness possibly prevented some real discussion about RR’s believability and the myriad holes in her story.

The comments hurled at PrincessJo, (and I don’t know you, but I’m sorry you were treated that way, no one deserves that) here’s a theory, those didn’t come from RR. They came from people here. I’ll bet the fucking farm on it. I know that tone, and I don’t have to be the head detective to put place to it.

And the “kinder, gentler, FJ?†That’s a load of shit as well. I got lambasted here a few weeks ago. It fucking sucked, it happened during a really shitty time in my personal life, and I’m not alone in that experience. It still happens, and it happens with regularity. A therapist on the Dede and EGG thread was fucking gutted because she made an OFF COLOR JOKE ON A SNARK BOARD. Really. She was smart, and funny, and she’s gone because she got treated so fucking poorly.

So, basically, if you want your community, get after it and start treating the members here with respect. Cut out the patronizing, sanctimonious bullshit and treat those here like the adults we are. And high post count members who treat people like shit on the internet because this snark board is more important than common decency, fuck right off. My comments here have always been thoughtful and respectful, and if I’ve failed on either count, and I sure did in this post, I’m really quite sorry.

And on that note ...Drops mic... raises hands... “sexual chocolateâ€... I’m out for awhile.

[fundiefun]

I couldn't have said it better this isn't something to just sweep under the rug who knows how many people were scammed out of thousands of dollars since RR had years to pull off her scam we deserve to be in the know.

[Lainey]

:popcorn2:

Does anyone have any chocolate? I'm getting a bit tired of popcorn.

[keeks21]

I have chips and fanta!

[Lainey]

How about prosciutto? I have expensive tastes. :snooty:

[keeks21]

Hell no. I'm a Uni student.

[Lainey]

I'll bring some to share. Then we can start a blog with a tip jar to pay for it.

[noni alabaster]

What if Ruth is Vyckie?

Sola, that is a thought I have been wrestling with for days. I hate to say it, but I think Vyckie and Ruth/Mary are the same.

[Curious]

I couldn't have said it better this isn't something to just sweep under the rug who knows how many people were scammed out of thousands of dollars since RR had years to pull off her scam we deserve to be in the know.

What exactly is being swept under the rug? There is more information in these threads than anyone could possibly really want. If you have read ALL the links that have been posted and still want more information, then you can always hit google or the search engine of your choice and do your own research.

[church_of_dog]

How about prosciutto? I have expensive tastes. :snooty:

Me too! I'll bring some chevre and a jar of kalamata olives.

Organic, of course.

From Azure, of double course! (tucks tail between legs, runs and hides from the Zsu-thread folks...)

[uber frau]

Why would Vycki need to cast doubt on RR's validity if she was her own fake? Wouldn't she have just left it and done her poor-bugger-me (I totally got sucked in) routine if RR got caught out?

Sola, that is a thought I have been wrestling with for days. I hate to say it, but I think Vyckie and Ruth/Mary are the same.

[Curious]

Why would Vycki need to cast doubt on RR's validity if she was her own fake? Wouldn't she have just left it and done her poor-bugger-me (I totally got sucked in) routine if RR got caught out?

Vyckie is not RR. Vyckie has been on tv and in print media and her pictures are all over the place. She is definitely a different person than PM.

[RealityTVRN]

I'm pretty sure chocolate always trumps popcorn. ;) It seems that PM has been exposed before, so I can't see how she could be a fairly public figure, like Vyckie.

[fundiefun]

I'm pretty sure chocolate always trumps popcorn. ;) It seems that PM has been exposed before, so I can't see how she could be a fairly public figure, like Vyckie.

Vyckie has way too much to lose with her NLQ empire she's built.

[Mama Mia]

I want to go ahead and warn anyone who reads this, that it is possibly the angriest, most expletive laden thing I’ve ever written, and if that’s going to screw with you, you’d best skip right on past.

Okay, so maybe I’m just a bitchy bitch who bitches, and I'm really late to the party here, and this post is probably not cohesive with the tone of the thread, but I didn't know where else to post it, and I’ve been thinking about this all goddamned day, and I’m getting it off my chest.

First, that response from the admins regarding the RR situation? Bullshit. You owe this community more than that. No one here is a second grader, we can handle the whole story, thanks. Simply present the facts as you understand them and get on with it. Make a definitive statement. These people donated their money, their time, their energies to RR, and they deserve more than you tacitly implying that you won’t dirty your hands to out this individual, due to a TOU that she violated to scam FJ members out of possibly thousands of dollars, but us parenthetical assholes in the comments can do it for you, and those of us who aren’t invited to the cool kids table can spend hours piecing it together.

Second, CUT THE LEGAL PEARL CLUTCHING THE FUCK OUT ALREADY. It’s part of the reason people are leaving for GOMI and the like. It’s this self important start a non profit/involve attorneys/no one can know the whole story/cliffhanger/secret facebooks/and the facade of transparency that just as cliquey and exclusive as it ever was. No one, especially not some asshole woman who apparently scammed FJ members and many others out of thousands of dollars, is coming to fucking sue you. Sweet Jesus, it’s a snark board. Cut it out. No one’s asking for directions to this chucklefuck’s house, but a rundown from the administration would be great. Further, perhaps if there were more transparency in the first place, and anyone who dissented wasn’t handed their ass on an ATI wisdom booklet, (more on this in a moment) this would’ve come out, oh, I dunno, YEARS ago, before this woman had the opportunity to personally screw hundreds of people out of their hard earned wages.

Third, regarding the TOU, here’s a newsflash for ya, NO ONE IS ENTITLED TO ANONYMITY ON THE INTERNET. It’s cute, but it’s not worth the time you took to type it, insomuch as it being legally binding. Remember that dude from 4chan who was outed by Gawker after posting pictures up the skirts of underage girls, along with other really vile shit? Yeah, buddy, he lost his house. And his Job. And virtually all of his friends. And he’s a fucking pariah now. You want anonymity, go write in your personal journal and lock your bedroom door. The internet is a public forum, and if you don’t want folks knowing what an asshat you are, you’d be wise not to make those statements in the first place. She scammed people. She took them in and she hurt members of your supposed community, and that’s your response? You put her on the naughty step until she explains herself? I’m sorry, but fuck that.

Furthermore, and perhaps most importantly, I want to address the HIGH POST COUNT MEMBERS!!! and those that buy into the idea that your post count means that your opinion matters more: It doesn’t. While reading through the truth about ruth 2 thread, somebody actually intoned that if you were a low post count member, that you really shouldn’t get involved in this particular thread. What in the ever loving fuck? Really? So those people who were, I don’t know, perhaps intimidated about posting here after seeing the invective hurled at new members by the old guard, their experiences don’t matter? Their emotional investment isn’t as important as someone who treats FJ like it’s their job? Fuck that. Further, the whole RR thing, if we want to get real, is partially your fault, high-count-holier-than-thou posters. Your nastiness possibly prevented some real discussion about RR’s believability and the myriad holes in her story.

The comments hurled at PrincessJo, (and I don’t know you, but I’m sorry you were treated that way, no one deserves that) here’s a theory, those didn’t come from RR. They came from people here. I’ll bet the fucking farm on it. I know that tone, and I don’t have to be the head detective to put place to it.

And the “kinder, gentler, FJ?†That’s a load of shit as well. I got lambasted here a few weeks ago. It fucking sucked, it happened during a really shitty time in my personal life, and I’m not alone in that experience. It still happens, and it happens with regularity. A therapist on the Dede and EGG thread was fucking gutted because she made an OFF COLOR JOKE ON A SNARK BOARD. Really. She was smart, and funny, and she’s gone because she got treated so fucking poorly.

So, basically, if you want your community, get after it and start treating the members here with respect. Cut out the patronizing, sanctimonious bullshit and treat those here like the adults we are. And high post count members who treat people like shit on the internet because this snark board is more important than common decency, fuck right off. My comments here have always been thoughtful and respectful, and if I’ve failed on either count, and I sure did in this post, I’m really quite sorry.

And on that note ...Drops mic... raises hands... “sexual chocolateâ€... I’m out for awhile.

Ummmm.........the admins state right here on this thread that they believe, with relative certainty, that Ruth is a blogger known as possum momma. Who is very easy to look up.....what more are they supposed to do?

I don't know the laws, but I would not be at all surprised if what she did wasn't even technically illegal. If she was running a charity or offering a service, then there would be laws regarding her accepting money and fraud. But as an individual.... She's misleading people and a liar, but I don't know that individuals are required by law to be honest in order to accept PayPal "tips" . I could be totally wrong about that of course.

I believed her story, but didn't read it to closely and wasn't surprised when it turned out to be fake. I do think the board culture here has greatly improved ....and I'm someone who has been piled on for unpopular views.

[ShesCrafty]

...this post is probably not cohesive with the tone of the thread...

No shit. I won't address your rant about RR, because that's not what your post is about. It's about this:

And the “kinder, gentler, FJ?†That’s a load of shit as well. I got lambasted here a few weeks ago. It fucking sucked, it happened during a really shitty time in my personal life, and I’m not alone in that experience. It still happens, and it happens with regularity.

A kinder FJ does not mean an FJ that will smile politely and nod when you post erroneous anti-vaccine information, which is what you were doing in the thread from a few weeks ago. You're actions regarding vaccination has the potential to harm others, and then you rail against the admins regarding their handling of RR because... it might harm people? Pot, meet kettle. (I think it's been handled pretty well, FWIW).

Sorry for the derail, I just remember the thread from last month that honey is talking about and had to point out the hypocrisy.

I would also like to say that I am finding the RR saga fascinating and appreciate everyone for digging up the dirt. Your investigative skills are far better than mine, I've been trying to figure RR out for the past 3 years. Bravo! :clap:

[LadyBlue]

Sola, that is a thought I have been wrestling with for days. I hate to say it, but I think Vyckie and Ruth/Mary are the same.

I can't 100% guarantee it, but I highly doubt it. For starters, Vyckie has loads of pictures, lots of people have met her IRL and fessed up to. I follow her on both FB & Twitter and she posts regularly on both. Also, I had interactions with her through an online support group long before she dropped Quiverful, even before she had her last child; possibly the second to last, it's been awhile & I suck at remembering timelines.

Her "type" of Quiverful was from Nancy Campbell and, as far as I can tell, she had no axe to grind with Gothard or interest in ATI.

I'm sure the sleuths/admins have more info and could confirm/deny, but I don't think Vyckie should be speculated about any more than the C family.

[wild little fox]

I sure hope World of Roses is a satire post...

World of Roses' blog is HYSTERICAL! She/he should try a little bit harder at being realistic lol!!!

[Rescinded and Mended]

Ummmm.........the admins state right here on this thread that they believe, with relative certainty, that Ruth is a blogger known as possum momma. Who is very easy to look up.....what more are they supposed to do?

I don't know the laws, but I would not be at all surprised if what she did wasn't even technically illegal. If she was running a charity or offering a service, then there would be laws regarding her accepting money and fraud. But as an individual.... She's misleading people and a liar, but I don't know that individuals are required by law to be honest in order to accept PayPal "tips" . I could be totally wrong about that of course.

I believed her story, but didn't read it to closely and wasn't surprised when it turned out to be fake. I do think the board culture here has greatly improved ....and I'm someone who has been piled on for unpopular views.

Regarding the bolded, unless I missed something, several posters noticed prominent inconsistencies in Ruth's story and began doing a bit of forensic internet detective work in an attempt to figure out if Ruth had a history of conning people. Understandably, people want more information and want to protect themselves from further scams. But no admin or moderator I can think of here is deliberately trying to keep anything from anyone. There are numerous links about Ruth's activities posted in several threads. Pick one, and use your Google-fu to find out what you want to know. Given a bit more time, you'll get the information you want leading to Ruth's true identity. It will probably be revealed quite soon, and some may even know about it already. And even if her name isn't published here on FreeJinger, it will be posted elsewhere online.

Someone who is angry enough at the "Ruth" persona could attempt to find Ruth and confront her. The fact that any information posted on this site could help in that endeavor makes it all the more necessary for the admins to protect themselves legally. People will track down internet personalities in real life for reasons both benign and unscrupulous.

If someone were to find and possibly harm Ruth, then Curious and Company could be on the hook for any legal ramifications that ensue from that encounter. Hence, the announcements, warnings and updates to the TOU.

The entire point of keeping Ruth's true identity off of Free Jinger lies in thinking ahead and picturing a worst-case scenario, even if it is seems unlikely.

[OkToBeTakei]

I would quote that rather long tantrum post but it will clog up the real issue of the thread. Definitely a tantrum though :lol: Reminds me of a comment I read on GOMI yesterday..finger in both pies there honey? So people did not agree with you? Awww pet. Shit happens. Does to me all the time. As for the therapist on the Exgay thread. I think you will find that the issue was very much addressed and that the member who commented on the new poster was really quite roundly condemned and no longer posts here. It was the new posters choice not to to return. To be very honest being disagreed with once and not coming back was probably never going to be a good fit for FJ. You have to be able to fight your corner, know your facts and also admit, if even to yourself that you might at times be wrong. Having a tantrum just makes you look like a petulant child. Posting it in such a popular dramatic thread just makes you look like an attention seeking petulant child.

You are not interested in the RR story. Only your own.

[Sass]

So- does anybody around here have any legal know-how? Cause after researching 'fraud' on Wikipedia, I don't see how this could be seen as anything else. She misrepresented herself and lied about her financial situation in order to solicit donations. She didn't always ask explicitly, but I do remember at least one post where she did ask people to donate- I think it was when she was getting ready for her 'big move'? I didn't go back all that far so maybe there were other posts where she asked for money, as well, even if she was vague about it.

Quoting from Wikipedia in case anybody else is curious about US fraud law--

"In the United States, common law recognizes nine elements constituting fraud:

a representation of an existing fact;

its materiality;

its falsity;

the speaker's knowledge of its falsity;

the speaker's intent that it shall be acted upon by the plaintiff;

the plaintiff's ignorance of its falsity;

the plaintiff's reliance on the truth of the representation;

the plaintiff's right to rely upon it; and

consequent damages suffered by the plaintiff."

[Palimpsest]

I would quote that rather long tantrum post but it will clog up the real issue of the thread. Definitely a tantrum though :lol: Reminds me of a comment I read on GOMI yesterday..finger in both pies there honey? So people did not agree with you? Awww pet. Shit happens. Does to me all the time. As for the therapist on the Exgay thread. I think you will find that the issue was very much addressed and that the member who commented on the new poster was really quite roundly condemned and no longer posts here. It was the new posters choice not to to return. To be very honest being disagreed with once and not coming back was probably never going to be a good fit for FJ. You have to be able to fight your corner, know your facts and also admit, if even to yourself that you might at times be wrong. Having a tantrum just makes you look like a petulant child. Posting it in such a popular dramatic thread just makes you look like an attention seeking petulant child.

You are not interested in the RR story. Only your own.

This. I've never understood why people need to post long angry diatribes when leaving boards. I only read the first 2 paragraphs of this one. Participation on any forum is voluntary, and if you don't like the board culture or the administration then just leave. Set up your own board or join another one. :shrug: GOMI seems to have set up its own Fundie subsection. I'm sure they'd welcome new posters because there were very few people there last time I looked on Thursday.

Speaking as a person who just gently faded away on yuku and missed the Rapture. I only came back after Curious had FJ dumped on her on very short notice :) .

Hi, again, Red Headed Skeptic. I've missed you! :dance:

Back to topic now.