Weaning babies in different cultures and times.

[OkToBeTakei]

I was reading Erica *smile* *controlfreak* Large families on purpose. That woman gives me the creeps. That smile makes me think she wants to eat me :(

Anyway. She has the how we fed our kids weaned on to solid food, actually I'll translate that to how I controlled my children's stomachs as I control everything else in their micro-managed lives.

largefamiliesonpurpose.com/2013/05/feeding-baby-part-3-how-weve-introduced.html#comment-form

I was told oats were an absolute no-no. NEVER to put anything in the babies bottle (she adds rice.) 4 months was too young when I had my child. Now I do realise that this type of advice changes ALL the time. As a friend of mine with a 10 yr old and a new baby commented recently 'It's amazing my 10 yr old survived what with all the changes.' :lol: I never used any type of 'baby' product. So I can't say it would be influenced by products.

My child's first 'solid food' was pureed steamed pear at 7 mths.

Do people in different cultures have different practices? How much does 'medical' advice play a part? Finance? Books? Gurus? Friends, family?

Some of the comments on the post were interesting.

[AVENues]

I heard that normally the baby "spits out the boob" once she is done, or they remain hungry and cry after feeding, so you add some puree to their diet. That is what I heard. Pls don't kick my ass, I am not a practicing mom or a breastfeeder, I just listen to what people say.

[lilith]

I started feeding my kids solids when they started grabbing my food. I was one of those mothers who would chew food for her baby. It was between seven and nine months, I think? They just started eating the blander of our foods. The first two moved to sippy cups with full cream cow milk when I got pregnant and my milk changed - I wanted to tandem nurse, but my bubs didn't like my milk after the first trimester. The third would still be on the breast if I let him, but he moved to cups at three.

I was very relaxed about it - I was determined to exclusively breastfed til 6 months, but after that I let them choose. I'm lucky not to have allergies and for them not to have heightened allergy risks.

[OkToBeTakei]

I heard that normally the baby "spits out the boob" once she is done, or they remain hungry and cry after feeding, so you add some puree to their diet. That is what I heard. Pls don't kick my ass, I am not a practicing mom or a breastfeeder, I just listen to what people say.

Hehe. Just cos you don't have kids does not mean you don't have opinions and we all learned by listening to what folks say.

Same lilith. I have no allergies so apart from the usual precautions with vigilance I did not exclude anything.

I once pureed a greek salad. Yes. That didn't work :lol: Salad shake anyone?

[terranova]

Apart from pumpkin, which is pretty much puree when cooked anyway, we didn't do puree with our girl. She went straight from the bottle to apples and pears, bananas, carrots (blanched) etc. probably around 6-7 months. We were told by our baby nurse to give her some solids around 6 months but not before 5.

Obviously at this stage she was still getting the bulk of her nutrition from milk. She weaned off the bottle totally around 14 months, although by this stage she was down to just a pre-bed drink.

[Mama Mia]

Well I raised all my babies in the 80's - early 90's. so I guess that qualifies as a "different time" .

I nursed all of them ( with an occasional bottle of formula if I was going out - for the oldest that would be evaporated milk and water - but with the later kids they said not to do that ) and added rice cereal mixed with applesauce around 5 or 6 months. Mostly they nursed as their primary source of nutrition until around a year. I added scrambled eggs, smashed bananas, avocado, bits of taco meat and whatever else we were eating that was baby edible during the second six months if they seemed hungry ( as another poster said - this was often evidenced by them taking food out of our mouths lol ) . As they got more teeth they would have crackers, cheerios, etc.

I also had a little hand crank baby food grinder I would use sometimes, but primarily just gave them what we would eat in a more smashed up version. I didn't do any of those schedules of food introduction. They would sometimes have the jarred baby food, but not regularly - too expensive.

I did tandem nurse the two youngest - worked okay but incredibly exhausting. They weaned from nursing around 2 ish, some of them were also drinking a bottle of regular milk when they were toddlers ( they didn't freak out about going off the bottle by 12 months like they do now ).

No food allergies in any of them, all a healthy adult weight.

As far as I recall the only food that we intentionally waited to give due to allergy concerns was strawberries, until they were 1. And of course avoided whole grapes, popcorn or other choke size pieces.

[Drina Adams]

We introduced solids at 5.5 months, doing what's known as baby-led weaning. You watch out for cues baby is ready and introduce finger foods for them to try, if they like it, you keep going, if they don't seem bothered about it, you hold off a little longer.

In Ireland weaning guidelines are for 16 weeks for exclusively bottle fed babies, and 20-24 weeks for combination/breastfed, but most mums I know went on baby's readiness, but before 16 weeks would be rare to start and would be done on a doctor's recommendations.

It is specifically mentioned in the official guidelines that putting anything like oats or rice into a bottle of formula or expressed milk is a total no no and would be considered very, very outdated advice. In fact, things are leaning more and more towards a more 'natural' approach. Our baby's first foods were sweet potato, carrots and broccoli, roasted until soft and in finger size pieces. We didn't introduce porridge oats until 6.5 months and never used baby rice.

On spitting out the boob, my baby never, ever finished herself. She LOVED being on me and would have stayed on for hours at a stretch if I'd let her. It was one of the pieces of advice that did my head in, that she'd pull off when she was full, because it never happened!

[Blahblah]

Mine were breastfed -no bottles at all so can't comment on adding things to bottles from any personal experience. But I do recall reading that it was a big no-no.

As for solids, the "rules" with the first in 2001 were runny rice cereal and not before 4 months. He spat it out for a couple of weeks as I recall. Next up was puréed apple and pear about a month later.

The second kid, three years later, was also supposed to be runny rice cereal but at six months instead of four. Apparently some new allergy research at the time mandated the change. Her big brother fed her a piece of chocolate at 4 months and stuffed up those plans :). I gave her puréed fruit & veg after that because she was snatching at everyone's food.

[Lulu]

My eldest was born last century :lol: and my second 15m later and the difference in what I was told was astounding. Whether by luck or stupid parenting my eldest now suffers from allergies :cry: so I learnt and did things a lot differently with the rest. Much family ridicule later and 4 of them have no allergies or skin problems. We exclusively breastfed-12m-3yrs, left introduction to solids till later, I kept off the allergy foods while breastfeeding etc.

I know that its not proof but having a child with severe eczema and now anaphylaxis I would do anything not to have the others with it too.

[chaotic life]

Adding rice cereal to bottles has ALWAYS been a big, giant NO NO. That hasn't changed in decades of infant feeding advice. Adding rice cereal to bottles is a choking hazard and it isn't healthy. It's just filler.

It's done for two reasons, and niether of those reasons are because of any educated baby advice. It's given in the belief that having a fuller tummy at bedtime will cause a baby to sleep better. The other reason it is done is because it will spread out feedings longer. Erica is a control freak. Her infant feeding behaviors mean she does not produce enough milk once the baby hits that 3-4 month growth spurt (been so long since I nursed a baby, I can't even remember when that growth spurt happens). It is almost guaranteed that Ezzo parent-directed feeding mothers are physically incapable of continuing to exclusively breastfeed after that growth spurt. So, they do one of two things. Most of them start giving bottles and by 6-8 months the child is completely weaned and the milk is dry. Those a bit more committed to trying to get to the year mark add rice cereal to what bottles they do give. It keeps the baby from going into failure to thrive, and it makes the bottles hard enough to suck that the baby doesn't truly develop the nipple preference that weans most Ezzo babies. At night. Erica is going to put her babies to bed and leave them to scream, no matter what nor how long. She is going to follow Ezzo and do that by the time her babies are 3 weeks old. So, rice at night is her belief that she is helping them sleep and reducing their screams.

Normally, I would suggest that she is not a completely heartless Ezzo mother and cannot handle the crying of her baby, which most Ezzo mothers stop even HEARING by a few months of age. In her case, I won't give her that credit. She deliberately and aggressively condemns every baby she can to the same cruel parenting she subjects her own children to, and I don't believe at this point that the cries of ANY infant stir the stone she has for a heart. Rather, I suspect that frantic sreams of a new infant likely distrubs the rest of the children in the house and thus she is giving rice cereal at the bedtime bottle to try to reduce the risk of the other children being awake and restless and trying to do anything like exert their own self-autonomy by seeking comfort for their own distress.

[Sumeri]

Way back in 1995 my son breastfed forever. Seriously, years. He was eating, too, of course, but I don't remember ever buying baby food. He liked arrowroot biscuits, I remember, and would snatch food off our plates. He had a combination of boob and whatever we were eating, no matter what that "whatever" was. He was impossible to wean, but I don't think he really got much nutrition from bfing once solid food came along. We never tried to wean him, just let him decide. My daughter, 10 years later, weaned herself after about 13 months - was just done with it - but she was never a very snuggly baby. Both of them always ate what we were eating. I did try cereal with both, but neither of them were having that when they saw and smelled the rest of the family eating things like pad thai. I just cut things up really small for both of them.

[August]

I heard that normally the baby "spits out the boob" once she is done, or they remain hungry and cry after feeding, so you add some puree to their diet. That is what I heard. Pls don't kick my ass, I am not a practicing mom or a breastfeeder, I just listen to what people say.

Can you give a date and culture for context? For your own future information if the baby is fussy and crying after they finish you give them the other side.

Chaotic, at three/four months it's not the growth spurt that leads to the drop in supply, it's the mother's body switching from hormonal overdrive to demand-led production. Four months is also the first sleep regression when they start waking up all night long. And you're right, it's when 75% of the schedulers find that they've trashed their supply. But that combination of developmental stages made four months such a common time to start solids in many cultures.

I myself was given a vitamin C supplement from birth and started on rice cereal around six weeks, then weaned around 9/10 months because I went on strike. My peers nurse their babies on demand to around 12 months, introduce solids a touch before six months, but not before four, start with rice cereal then move to purees, introduce finger foods about 7-9 months, and baby's pretty much on all finger foods by 13-14 months. Sometime in the last six or seven years they have dropped the advice to delay certain allergenic foods like nuts, strawberry, egg yolks/whites. With my oldest I had a chart on the fridge which said what you can intro at what age. I think strawberry was 12 months, egg yolk nine months, egg white 12 months.

[lagenialester]

Just wanted to add that the rice cereal thing is actually kind of controversial. My nephew was born with pretty severe health problems and has had trouble gaining weight. (He's now 15 mos and 18 lbs) Doctors suggested my sister add runny rice cereal to his bottles of already highly fortified breast milk at 3 months to give him those extra calories because he just wasn't putting on any weight. Of course, my sister is a pediatric surgeon, so she could probably stop him from choking pretty easily...

In Cameroon I hung out with a family who had a 4 month old and he was breast fed, but they would give him tastes of everything from the table. Chicken, rice, fufu...whatever they felt like giving him.

[JesusFightClub]

I always heard the rice in bottle is a big mistake!

Not a mum but in my experience of babies (such as it is):

You give the baby a bottle or a boob.

Eventually it wants to try eating the foods you are. You give it little squished-up pieces of what it seems attracted to, being very careful with them, and watching and also giving usual feeds.

Baby starts liking tastes and not liking bottle as much. You give it squished up foods.

Squished up foods become main. Bottle for emergencies.

Baby gets teeth and bites a lot. Some big foods, and less squished up. No bottle.

Baby eats big person foods, with care and selection.

It's correct? :think:

[August]

Cochrane study on thickened feeds says it is effective

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 2/abstract

Don't they use an inert thickener instead of rice cereal?

My eldest was born last century :lol: and my second 15m later and the difference in what I was told was astounding. Whether by luck or stupid parenting my eldest now suffers from allergies :cry: so I learnt and did things a lot differently with the rest. Much family ridicule later and 4 of them have no allergies or skin problems. We exclusively breastfed-12m-3yrs, left introduction to solids till later, I kept off the allergy foods while breastfeeding etc.

I know that its not proof but having a child with severe eczema and now anaphylaxis I would do anything not to have the others with it too.

I don't think the evidence supports blaming yourself (my kids are well past the age where I read new studies). When I stopped keeping track the thought was that giving them allergenic foods in the context of breastmilk helped them not become allergic. They also thought that delaying solids after six months increased gluten and one other sensitivity (but I think that study didn't control for breast/formula). But I know several people whose babies reacted to foods in their milk. I don't know the recent science, and of course nursing your kids a long time would have helped, but I don't think you can blame yourself. Too few pinworms, too many PCBs in your fat, maybe.

[Mice]

I always heard the rice in bottle is a big mistake!

Not a mum but in my experience of babies (such as it is):

You give the baby a bottle or a boob.

Eventually it wants to try eating the foods you are. You give it little squished-up pieces of what it seems attracted to, being very careful with them, and watching and also giving usual feeds.

Baby starts liking tastes and not liking bottle as much. You give it squished up foods.

Squished up foods become main. Bottle for emergencies.

Baby gets teeth and bites a lot. Some big foods, and less squished up. No bottle.

Baby eats big person foods, with care and selection.

It's correct? :think:

Yanno - this is kind of off topic but I'd be far more comfortable leaving my little ones in the care of FreeJingerites with their wide range child rearing experience than any of the Ezzo\ATI\QF\Pearlites with huge families that we so regularly discuss. As evidenced by JFC's post above (and ample other places in the forum), many of the posters here demonstrate an understanding of child rearing that these fundies just don't get despite their focus on this skill set. A child is hungry? Feed the child something developmentally appropriate! A child is afraid? Love the child in a developmentally OK way! A child wants to play? Behold the child plays! A child grows? The child handles different things as they grow! Want to raise respectful well behaved children? Start by treating them respectfully and be a well behaved parent!

I do not understand these fundies and their desire to torture other people! It makes me ever. so. ranty! When they say that Christians are supposed to be set apart I don't think it was originally meant that everyone would know a Christian by the way they beat\starved\abused their children.

[Mama Mia]

Well I raised all my babies in the 80's - early 90's. so I guess that qualifies as a "different time" .

I nursed all of them ( with an occasional bottle of formula if I was going out - for the oldest that would be evaporated milk and water - but with the later kids they said not to do that ) and added rice cereal mixed with applesauce around 5 or 6 months. Mostly they nursed as their primary source of nutrition until around a year. I added scrambled eggs, smashed bananas, avocado, bits of taco meat and whatever else we were eating that was baby edible during the second six months if they seemed hungry ( as another poster said - this was often evidenced by them taking food out of our mouths lol ) . As they got more teeth they would have crackers, cheerios, etc.

I also had a little hand crank baby food grinder I would use sometimes, but primarily just gave them what we would eat in a more smashed up version. I didn't do any of those schedules of food introduction. They would sometimes have the jarred baby food, but not regularly - too expensive.

I did tandem nurse the two youngest - worked okay but incredibly exhausting. They weaned from nursing around 2 ish, some of them were also drinking a bottle of regular milk when they were toddlers ( they didn't freak out about going off the bottle by 12 months like they do now ).

No food allergies in any of them, all a healthy adult weight.

As far as I recall the only food that we intentionally waited to give due to allergy concerns was strawberries, until they were 1. And of course avoided whole grapes, popcorn or other choke size pieces.

To clarify, I just re-read and realized it sounds like I put rice cereal and /or applesauce IN a bottle. I didn't do that, I meant I gave them a little of the baby rice cereal mixed with applesauce in a bowl. As I remember it some people who formula fed would put the rice cereal in the bottle at 4 months - but I think that was discouraged even back then. People didn't feed their baby expressed breastmilk very frequently back then - the pumps weren't nearly as effective as they are now. Trying to pump was a huge hassle. I don't think people put as much emphasis on the absolute 100% exclusive breastfeeding. I used the occasional bottle of formula and never thought of my kids as anything but breastfed. But I guess now they make a distinction between "exclusively breastfed" and anything else. Seems silly and like it would be a discouragement to nursing overall.

Only one of mine had any trouble with the switching back and forth, and the nursing did suffer some with him, but that was because I was back at work and giving bottles more frequently than with the others.

[OkToBeTakei]

Cochrane study on thickened feeds says it is effective

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 2/abstract

Don't they use an inert thickener instead of rice cereal?

I don't think the evidence supports blaming yourself (my kids are well past the age where I read new studies). When I stopped keeping track the thought was that giving them allergenic foods in the context of breastmilk helped them not become allergic. They also thought that delaying solids after six months increased gluten and one other sensitivity (but I think that study didn't control for breast/formula). But I know several people whose babies reacted to foods in their milk. I don't know the recent science, and of course nursing your kids a long time would have helped, but I don't think you can blame yourself. Too few pinworms, too many PCBs in your fat, maybe.

That study was for reflux babies.

I believed the opposite was true regarding gluten ie. Not under six months. I think the scientific research now advises exclusively milk for 6 months.

The strawberry one is interesting as it is a common serious allergy but also just an irritant which can be confused.

I like the idea of finger foods, I would probably have tried that. Eggs if I recall was yolk only until 12 months.

Maybe only pertinent to UK folks. Remember Farley's Rusks? Marketed as a weaning food ..more sugar than any other nutrient :lol:

[chaotic life]

Rice is only EVER recommended in a bottle for reflux, as a thickener. There are better thickeners than rice cereal honestly. There are some special needs children (and adults) who DO need thickened fluids. Thickened fluids are just foul, but if you have a physical issue swallowing, plain fluids can be dangerous. Normal babies do NOT have that problem, and only special needs babies/children whose doctors have determined this problem via a swallow study should be told to thicken fluids with anything.

Rice cereal on a spoon is much different than in a bottle. I only used it with one baby because I discovered she rejected all "baby food" and was only interested in real foods. After that, I went more primal, waited for babies to snatch my food, gave them finger foods and chewed up food of my own as they learned to eat with the family.

Eating is inherently social. It's vital for human to get the social interaction of food and not merely the physical sensation of full.

Just about ANY form of parenting and feeding a child is better than the nightmare Ezzo calls parent directed feeding. It causes the failure of most breastfeeding relationships, failure to thrive in infants, and eating disorders well into adulthood. However, it permits the parent to completely control EVERY aspect of the child and Ezzo has convinced the mothers who follow him that the ONLY way to be a "Godly" parent is to be that controlling and nightmarish to your children. Compliant children survive the method. Spirited children either lead their parents to a better way, or become neglected and abused. Ezzo totes the compliant children as proof of the success and spirited children as proof of why his methods are necessary. The reality is that ALL children thrive better in a more gentle, respectful and loving manner than what Ezzo promotes, even when the specifics differ. The basic formula that is successful for parenting is respecting that a child has needs, meeting those needs to the best of your ability, and having the courage to say sorry when you fail to meet those needs to the best of your ability.

[apple1]

I heard that normally the baby "spits out the boob" once she is done, or they remain hungry and cry after feeding, so you add some puree to their diet. That is what I heard. Pls don't kick my ass, I am not a practicing mom or a breastfeeder, I just listen to what people say.

Not "kicking your ass". I believe you heard that statement somewhere. But the statement is hogwash. (Yes, I BFed my kids).

[Mama Mia]

Not "kicking your ass". I believe you heard that statement somewhere. But the statement is hogwash. (Yes, I BFed my kids).

Since AVEnues states she's not a mom, she might not have thought about the particulars.

This advice could very easily mean that solids are added for a 6-12 month old who has already nursed on both sides and the mother is producing enough milk and the baby nurses frequently but still seems hungry, so the mother starts to add a little bit of soft food.

[Savoring Samsara]

I'm from the United States and have a 15 month old son. What people have said above (only bottle or breast until 6 months, no cereal or thickener in the bottle unless it is medically indicated to do so, start with cereal and simple purees unless you're doing baby-led weaning) is consistent with the advice I've experienced. I was told to avoid some allergenic foods until my kid was a year old. We listened to some of these (peanut butter) and ignored the advice with others (strawberries), and so far, he doesn't appear to have any allergies.

My son has always been a total beast when it comes to eating. He started on solids at about 5.5 months because he was starting to grab everything off our plates at dinner. His first non-cereal food was actually a (fairly mild) curry because that was what we happened to be eating that night. When he took his first bite, his eyes got huge and he started yelling at the top of his lungs. I yanked the spoon away, convinced we had broken the baby forever - but then he started crying and reaching for the spoon again, demanding to eat more of it. Even now he continues to be drawn to anything with a strong flavor or lots of acidity - dill pickles and cabbage in particular.

We gave him mostly pureed solids between about 6-10 months, and offered finger foods along with that for variety. He was totally addicted to them until he just abruptly wasn't. It was seriously like flipping a switch - one day he was going through dozens of pouches of the stuff in a week, and the next he just decided that he was done with them and he would rather just eat finger foods and whatever we were eating. That's where we're at now - he nurses a few times a day, mainly for comfort, and otherwise eats approximately his body weight in various fruits, breads, pastas, and vegetables.

So I guess the philosophy we followed (if you can call it that) was "whatever works." We're lucky in that he's a very adventurous eater and also pretty willing to go along with whatever we happen to be doing (knock wood).

[France Nolan]

My pediatrician recommended that my mom put rice cereal in my bottles. I was considered failure to thrive, getting weighed every day, and sleeping maybe six out of twenty-four hours. It was a sort of last ditch attempt to get me to put on some weight, and apparently it worked. This was in the late 80s. I certainly wouldn't give any parents' the advice to put cereal in the bottle.

My pediatrician also told my mom it was okay to wean me from formula to whole cow's milk when I was six months old. Again, I know that's a big no no and certainly wouldn't give that advice to anyone. I "turned out fine" but that doesn't mean it's sound medical advice.

I fed my daughter formula from day one. I started solids around five months. Her first solid food was mashed up avocado, which went over very well. I wasn't big on the cereals, especially rice, because they would bind her. I also used those baby safe feeders where you put food in a little mesh bag and let the baby gnaw on it. Frozen bagels were also a favorite.

[Arete]

No kids, just niece and nephew observations.

All got BF, with weaning anywhere from a year to 18 months.

At about 6 months they would get introduced to pureed squash/applesauce/bananas/peaches/beets. Also some separate rice cereal or semolina.

Yogurt at about 6 months, because they all seemed to have problems digesting it before.

No honey till a year old. No juice period.

Pureed meats starting around month 9.

So basically exclusive boob for six months, then supplementing with pureed food till weaning. Slow introduction to some solids after a year old.

[OkToBeTakei]

Since AVEnues states she's not a mom, she might not have thought about the particulars.

This advice could very easily mean that solids are added for a 6-12 month old who has already nursed on both sides and the mother is producing enough milk and the baby nurses frequently but still seems hungry, so the mother starts to add a little bit of soft food.

Yes that is the way I read it. Why would that be hogwash? Like others said mine tracked my food and reached for it. Looked for more feeds was over six months. She also used to suckle for comfort, but it's pretty easy to determine between that and feeding.

LOVE the curry story. Baby has good taste :lol: