Joy Looking pissed? when asked about wanting a big family.

[FloraDoraDolly]

It is hard to say what is going with Joy. She could be going through puberty as another poster mentioned which could be effecting her moods. Or maybe she is wise beyond her years and sees that her family's lifestyle is crazy. I hope Joy is first kid to get out of the lifestyle.

I have a niece who is the same age as Joy and who is going through the moody teenager phase. The difference is, my niece can be down one day (or one hour) and happy the next whereas Joy looks miserable all of the time.

[Deleted04]

I order my episodes from Amazon and watch them on my computer.(And yes, I realize how that sounds...lol) Ill try uploading them to youtube then sending a link. I hope it works.

[Lillybee]

I really hope that Joy isn't spending too much time in the prayer closet with Jana but I am afraid that she is.

[Lillian]

This is the link for the GMA interview:

[Vex]

I don't really like to speculate based on expressions and body language; you can be the happiest person in the world and you might see someone who looks like your dead grandmother and the camera will capture that moment rather than the moments where you're happy.

I'm happy to speculate about her state of mind based on her age and position in the family, though.

I don't think the Duggars actually spank the kids anymore. Even if they do still spank, now that Joy is starting 'womanhood' ( :roll: ) she's probably too old for that. I'm guessing that if you're grown-up enough for 'the talk', your period (perhaps) and a purity ring, it's not appropriate to be spanked. I'm sure they have other ways of dealing with older kids who step out of like, like those ATI camps where they have to reflect upon their behaviour and relationships.

Almost every single girl I knew growing up at Joy's age could be pretty darn sullen. The hormones kick in, you feel left out (too young to be 'one of the little kids' and too young to be 'one of the grown-ups', as someone already mentioned), your body changes which leads to self-conciousness and defensiveness, you start to question things and rebel as you find your own answers and walk your own path.

Maybe she's questioning Quiverfull, or maybe she's just thinking about how it's her turn to load the dishwashers that night.

I have a lot of hope for Joy. I don't think she's going to full-out rebel, but I can definitely see her being far more liberal and laid-back than her parents.

I think a lot of the Duggar girls want smaller families than their own. However, I worry that they won't do anything to prevent it because DQ and Boob were so thoroughly brainwashed by the quack who told them the pill made DQ miscarry that I'm sure their kids are utterly terrified of it.

[Patsy]

I'm glad that, if she's just feeling teenaged hormones and sullenness, she's still free enough to have it show up.

[Deleted04]

This is the link for the GMA interview:

I was referring to the gma interview they showed on the recent "Manhattan Duggars" episode. I couldn't find it anywhere and amazon wont allow uploading. :(

I tried to upload it but it wouldnt work...sorry guys.

[Lillian]

I was referring to the gma interview they showed on the recent "Manhattan Duggars" episode. I couldn't find it anywhere and amazon wont allow uploading. :(

I tried to upload it but it wouldnt work...sorry guys.

Oops! I haven't seen that ep so I thought it was just this one, since they asked the question about wanting big families. Sorry!

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I think a lot of the Duggar girls want smaller families than their own. However, I worry that they won't do anything to prevent it because DQ and Boob were so thoroughly brainwashed by the quack who told them the pill made DQ miscarry that I'm sure their kids are utterly terrified of it.

Wanting a small family may be why they aren't actively encouraging Daddy to let them court......

[Koala]

Why does Michelle never hold her own babies?

Why does Jill sound like a 13 year old?????

[JenniferJuniper]

I don't have a link, but there's a picture of the family all waiting outside Josh and Anna's house to go in and see the new baby with everyone smiling nicely for the camera except Joy, who looks as annoyed and disgusted as I've ever seen her.

Being 13 is a huge part of it, no doubt. But she is in the the most unique situation of any of the girls in the family. There's oldest four, the last four, then there is Joy. No sister close to her age (Jinger's 4 years older and Hannie is way younger) to share any burdens and she's expected to wait on the brothers who were her playmates and best friends just a couple of years ago. And once the older girls start moving away or becoming busier with other things, she's stuck alone with all of those little kids, including poor little Josie.

On top of the normal stuff kids go through at that age, she must feel a total sense of dread about her future. And at her age, 18 feels like it's an eternity away.

[MamaJunebug]

Oops! I haven't seen that ep so I thought it was just this one, since they asked the question about wanting big families. Sorry!

Lillian, many thanks for the GMA interview. I agree that you can't conclude from body language, and frankly I doubt that we'll ever see any evidence of an actual break with the hive mind until and if one or more of the chidlren are out from under the parents' thumbs.

Even then, I say the individuals who break will have to be married to outsiders, men/women who can support their spouses with real work in the real world ... not a bogus car lot, personal appearances, book sales and TV deals.

I feel for the interviewer. I also call b.s. on her glee with how well behaved the kids are. We know from previous clips that TPTB play videos without sound out of view of the cameras to keep the younger boys distracted. Look at the ones in the front row, at the viewer's left.

Jill wouldn't let Josiah finsih a sentence. In part, I'm pleased to see a mouthy woman instead of a quiet, sweet-keeping one. In other part, I'm intrigued that Josiah just rolls with it. I know some people here think he evidences some gayness: I have no opinion on that, but I do perceive him as being laid-back enough to slip out of the hive unnoticed, some time in the future.

Finally, I truly have no good opinion of Michelle. We're to believe that crisply starched blouse was bought in a thrift shop? if so, it was one of the brand-new items donated by Target, and it's been professionally laundered and pressed! BTW, do the Duggars buy from thrift shops that accept donations from the Planned-Parenthood-supporting Target?

I agree that it's just as telling as can be, that she's almost never got a child on her lap or in her arms. The fact that she's got her hands on the stroller handles surprised me.

Finally finally, so these are the hairstyles that Bill Goatherd requires of his followers? Crunchy curls and board-straight (or warped) bangs? And ATI'ers truly think that's a pleasant, attractive look? All I can think is how unpleasant it must be to touch that stuff!

[ElphabaGalinda]

Simply because Joy is in the middle of a bunch of boys, not as often seen with babies as her sisters were at that age, was allowed to actually play with the boys definately longer than Jana and Jill were, and seems to have a close relationship with Amy, makes me think she has the biggest chance of rebelling. She's going to have to do most of the slave labour all by herself eventually, and she's got to realize that. She seems the most tomboyish, so she's the one I most want to escape, because that lifestyle is probably the hardest for her. I want her to run away at 18, then have the youngest four girls eventually follow her example when they see how free, happy and succesful she's become. Jim Bob and Michelle will be old by then, it'll be easier. I've sadly given up hope of the older ones totally escaping, but i'm hoping they all just become fundie lite.

[forever ago]

Finally finally, so these are the hairstyles that Bill Goatherd requires of his followers? Crunchy curls and board-straight (or warped) bangs? And ATI'ers truly think that's a pleasant, attractive look? All I can think is how unpleasant it must be to touch that stuff!

It must be pretty unpleasant to even *wear* that stuff. It's awful, and the hair looks perpetually wet, which does not flatter the skin at all. On top of that, their hair is very long, so all that gel and/or hairspray must make it loads heavier than it already is. Why not just let them wear their hair naturally, or in a ponytail or something? Even fucking pigtails would be better on all of them at this point. It's a shame since all of those girls are beautiful already.

[MamaJunebug]

It must be pretty unpleasant to even *wear* that stuff. It's awful, and the hair looks perpetually wet, which does not flatter the skin at all. On top of that, their hair is very long, so all that gel and/or hairspray must make it loads heavier than it already is. Why not just let them wear their hair naturally, or in a ponytail or something? Even fucking pigtails would be better on all of them at this point. It's a shame since all of those girls are beautiful already.

You know, your comment reminded me of somethign Big Mama Junebug used to say when we'd see crazy-ass dresses on runway models, back in the 1960s. She'd say, "Mm, MM! I think those men must hate women, the way they dress 'em."

In the 1970s, when she knew I knew about teh ghey, she'd be a little more open: "Well, of course those dresses look ridiculous, the men who design them don't like women to begin with!"

Initially I thought that the Gothard "look" for hair was Gothard's way of making his female followers look all angelic and soft and purty. The more I look at actual Gothard-women's hairstyles, though, BMJB's observations seem more and more apt...

;)

Gothard, closet for one!

[bananacat]

Could there be a medical/nutritional reason why her skin appears to be so dry and almost wrinkly? I hate to comment on a child's appearance just for appearance sake, but in this case, between her red eyes and her skin, I wonder if something medically is going on w/ her. Usually puberty brings out the oily skin and the pimples.

I have also worried about her health. I had really dark eye circles when I was 13, and my gums bled a lot at the dentist and the hygienist said I might have anemia. It turns out that I had a combination of sub-clinical anemia AND sub-clinical hypothyroidism. My gums bled for years until my hypothyroidism was severe enough to actually treat (I also had bigger problems like fatigue). I was amazed when I went to the dentist after about 3 months on synthroid and I didn't leave with a mouth full of blood.

Anyway, hypothyroidism can also cause dry skin, fatigue, and a bunch of other things. Anemia could cause some similar problems. It could be that Joy is simply not getting enough iron in her diet. I wonder what the family history is with hypothyroidism because it's mostly genetic.

She might just be overworked and tired because she's taking over the chores for the older girls. But I wouldn't be surprised if there were something else going on.

[gustava]

And Joy has no "friend" such as the duos of her older sisters. She's pretty much alone, now that she's a "woman."

[luckylassie]

I feel sorry for Joy. She is sandwiched between boys and even though she has sisters, they are either way older or younger than she is. Do you think that she is being worked harder now? When she was younger she seemed to be able to play around with the boys all day and even though she probably did have chores to do she was not working as much as the older girls. Maybe now she has more responsibility.

[slickcat79]

I finally watched the episode. When Matt asked if the kids would all want a large family, Joy looked like she was biting back a look of "are you fucking kidding me?" Plus she was kind of sneering at Jinger when she was answering the question.

I also think Jinger sort of dodged the question. Obviously she couldn't say, hell no I don't want a whole bunch of kids, but she just said that their parents taught them to be best friends and it was great to have your friends around all the time. I doubt Jinger considers the howlers or the little girls to be her best friends, and you certainly don't need to have a dozen+ kids for your kids to be friends with each other. It was just a way to highlight one of the positive parts of being a j'slave by focusing on her friendships with her closer siblings.

[CanadianHippie]

The question "Does anybody here want to have a small family?"

The answer... (Sorry about the quality)

[Lillian]

Ok the episode is on youtube now, this is the link for the part with the interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG2D1TeF ... ture=feedu

[bananacat]

Ok the episode is on youtube now, this is the link for the part with the interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG2D1TeF ... ture=feedu

Sort of OT, but wow are they ever braggy about serving at a soup kitchen. When I was a teenager I did that every single Sunday, and while I would mention it in conversation, I never made a big deal about displaying it and saying all this nonsense about giving me a "servant's heart". Guess what Michelle, serving at a soup kitchen one time does not make you special or giving. Other people volunteer weekly or even daily and they do it because they care about the people they are helping, not because they get to brag about how serving they are. False displays of charity like this just drive me nuts. You don't get a cookie and a medal for doing what any decent human being would do.

[masagoroll]

The question "Does anybody here want to have a small family?"

The answer... (Sorry about the quality)

Go, Hannie, go!

[ladypuglover]

Sort of OT, but wow are they ever braggy about serving at a soup kitchen. When I was a teenager I did that every single Sunday, and while I would mention it in conversation, I never made a big deal about displaying it and saying all this nonsense about giving me a "servant's heart". Guess what Michelle, serving at a soup kitchen one time does not make you special or giving. Other people volunteer weekly or even daily and they do it because they care about the people they are helping, not because they get to brag about how serving they are. False displays of charity like this just drive me nuts. You don't get a cookie and a medal for doing what any decent human being would do.

The thing is you did this every Sunday were as this is something new for them. Yes, they have volunteered a little before but they don't serve truly needy people all the time. Mostly people down on their luck in their town and I doubt they see a whole lot of homeless people in their neighborhood. Maybe they do, but do they serve them or the faithful who are already saved by Christ?

It also seemed more like they were thrilled to be able to serve people who needed to be served and less than bragging. I think some of the teens would love a chance to be able to build a house, serve a meal or what ever they feel led to do to help others out and it is sad the only help they can do is take care of their siblings for their parents.

[moreorlessnu]

Never mind.