Taking Away Your Big Gulp Is The Same As Nazism

[meda]

I am going to suggest that some posters here react so strongly to the "fat is a public health crisis" thing is because they have had direct experience of being treated poorly by healthcare staff because of their weight. It can be a very triggering, frustrating, helpless experience. I think better training of Dr's and other staff about how to talk about weight in a nuanced way that is actually helpful to a patient would go a long way towards encouraging people make better choices.

I am actually having the opposite experience at the moment with my obgyn, who is a great example of how to do this well. He should market and sell his bedside manner, he would make a fortune. I was overweight, but not obese going into my pregnancy. The heaviest weight I have ever been, actually. This is do to a variety of factors, including infertility drugs and a tendency to eat when stressed. At my first appointment, I stated that I was concerned about an increased risk of GD and high blood pressure because of weight, and what I could do about it. It turns out, this happens to be his research area, so what ensued was a very positive and nuanced discussion about appropriate calorie ranges, exercise choices, and a completely understanding attitude on his part about what food choices I was able to make during my 2 trimesters of fairly severe nausea. Every appointment has been supportive as opposed to shaming, and I have so far avoided GD and preeclampsia symptoms. We have also discussed the potential impact my weight on labor, and how research has shown obesity can slow down active labor, which can mean fetal distress and a higher risk of needing medical interventions. Even this discussion was done well, and the information presented in the context of choices and options, rather than presenting c-section to me as a forgone conclusion.

I contrast this to the experience of a good friend who ironically weighed less than me when she was pregnant. She also asked her Dr about appropriate weight gain, etc....and was basically told that since she was already overweight, there was no point in making much effort, she would just be put on the diabetics diet and given insulin if needed once she was diagnosed with GD. She was also told that women of her size usually ended up needing a c section. As a result, she felt completely disempowered, with her pregnancy and birth options dictated to her without any discussion as to why this was so.

Tl/dr: How information is presented can make a huge difference in outcomes. People who are shamed and dismissed because of size tend to get a little annoyed with sanctimonious public health campaigns. :)

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Nothing is ever going to help the breastfeeding rates in the US until we offer moms better maternity leave and benefits. Obviously education is important too. But expecting a mom to return to work after 6 weeks (or sometimes less because she can't afford to go that long without pay; 8 weeks if she had a c-section) on very little sleep when her body has barely recovered and her hormones are still a wreck, pump several times a day in her car if she has one because there's often nowhere else to do it regardless of what the law says, and keep that up enough to feed her baby is just so ridiculously hard. Many bosses can make it really hard for her to have the time, and in many situations they just won't let her do it enough, and pumping does not work for everyone, esp if you're stressed out when you're trying to do it. And then some babies will grow to prefer the bottle over breast and refuse to nurse, because the bottle is less work for them.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how awesome maternal benefits, not to mention better acceptance from society, reflect a large increase in breastfeeding rates in places like Canada and man European countries. The US is pathetically behind in this area, despite the fact that it would greatly benefit everyone in the long run. And many countries will allow moms and dads to split the time so Dad can have the chance to have some serious quality with the new baby as well.

I was fortunate enough to be a SAHM the 21 months I nursed my daughter. I wouldn't have made it past the 8 weeks because even with renting a hospital grade pump, I could hardly extract any milk. My body did not respond well to pumping and I hated it with a passion. I wanted to build up a stockpile so others could feed her, so I could leave her home with Daddy for a few hours, etc, etc. But I had to save up several weeks worth just to be able to have one evening out with my husband and be able to leave her with Grandma, who turned out to be the only person she would allow to feed her a bottle.

[flyawaystray]

No "it" isn't. I am not an epidemic. I am not the victim of an epidemic. I did not catch fat from anybody. I am not a vector. I am not a disease pathogen.

Okay, I worded it poorly. I didn't mean that obesity is contagious like the flu. But it IS a problem. I am the only normal weight one in my family. My sister was over 300 lbs at one point and stopped getting her period. She's down 100 lbs and she's back to normal, but she never developed high blood pressure or anything.

My parents have health problems related to their weight. Hypertension (doesn't help my mom also smoked, grrrr), joint pain, and my dad needs back surgery but can't get it unless he loses weight. IIRC, it's spinal stenosis and surgery wouldn't do much unless he lost weight according to the doctor, because the spinal column would still be restricted.

My other sister is also majorly obese and has weight related problems, and she is getting the gastric sleeve, although I think that isn't the right approach for her because she's never even tried to cut down on her portions, but it's not my business what she does.

And then there's me. The only person with normal weight with health problems, but it's not due to my diet or anything. I have EDS and fibromylagia, and I have high blood pressure because my body makes way too much norepinephrine. And I have osteoarthritis because of the hypermobility.

Now, you can be overweight or obese and fine, like my sister (except for the part where she lost her period for quite some time), or you can be thin with health problems. Personally, I don't really give a crap what people choose to eat. I think people should live their life the way they want to. My friend's mom has type 2 diabetes and she eats what she wants anyway. If she suffers from complications later on, then that's her fault.

But, I don't think the government should sit by idly and do nothing either. They're profiting from this, and so is the pharmaceutical industry, and that really makes me mad. It's less of an incentive for the gov't to step up but I feel like they should, because they subsidize corn, they don't give any incentives for companies to make healthier products, and they don't do anything to help us consumers make better choices.

They're the ones that change things, and won't because there's too much money to be made.

[debrand]

this is an interesting thread. So, what ideas do any of us have for encouraging all people to make healthy choices? Should corn subsidies end? Should certain highly sweetened foods come with a warning?

One problem in the United States is that large areas seem to be set up for car drivers not pedestrians. Walking to work or school isn't an option for many of us. I'd love it if my town provided a walking path and kept weeds, ticks, broken glass and fire ants from invading the path.

[flyawaystray]

I'm for nixing HFCS and stopping the corn subsidiary, and subsidizing healthier things like fruits. Fruit is expensive here. A lb of strawberries is normally $5, so I only buy it when it's on sale for $1.99. But I know it's seasonal so there is that. Maybe subsidize other foods, and also sponsor nutrition education classes so that people can learn to eat healthy. Not everyone has access to a dietitian or nutritionist.

Most of us know we eat like crap, but don't know what a real portion is.

[Arete]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how awesome maternal benefits, not to mention better acceptance from society, reflect a large increase in breastfeeding rates in places like Canada and man European countries.

According to the graphics on this site, http://kellymom.com/fun/trivia/bf-rates-2004/, the US is actually part of the trio of countries with the highest percentage of exclusively breastfed babies at 6 months. The rate of at least some breast feeding at 18 months in the US is comparable to Norway and Australia, and better than Sweden, Ireland, and the UK. We are behind Norway and Australia at 24 months, but ahead of the UK, Ireland, Sweden and Canada. The rates from this graphics are pulled by rates reported in UNICEF, NHS, and the National Board of Health and Welfare and Sweden.

Extended maternity leave is important, and a factor in individual decisions. These statistics do not indicate that some large increase in breastfeeding rates in Canada or European countries has taken place that the US is missing out on.

In addition to yanking corn and wheat subsidies in the US and replacing them with subsidies for healthier foods, US food culture also needs to change signifigantly. You can lead a person to the produce aisle, but if they don't know how to make tasty meals from it, the battle is lost. We would get better results if we tell people it is OK to have your asparagus with a little shaved cheese on the top, instead of offering everything up with choices of steamed, without an ounce of enjoyable fat or carbs. Go on, put a little bechamel on that steamed broccoli. You know you want to. ;)

[BlondeAgent007]

THE HFCS itself is no more harmful or beneficial than white table sugar (glucose). However, it is basically only used in processed foods: as stabilizers, thickeners, binding ingredients, to make flavored beverages and sodas, syrups and sauces. I agree with the HFCS ban as well. We are encouraged to eat whole, fresh, unprocessed foods, and then the government subsidizes a crop that creates an ingredient prevalent in almost all the food we are told not to eat. Which makes them cheaper. Sometimes I feel as though the general consumer is set up to fail. There are lots of foods on the shelves filled with sugar that most people wouldn't expect to find.

Sugarcane, on the other hand, can only grow in select climates. If those products had to be made with table sugar, the prices for processed foods would go up. Cropland would free up for other foods to be grown, and other prices would hopefully drop.

[jaelh]

Yep, what everyone else has said.

Ixnay on corn and wheat subsidies.

Suburban redesign: higher density living (meaning it's easier to get to where you need to go), foot paths. If density is not possible, require a certain % of every suburban block to be not built up. *require* backyards. Require new developments - urban and suburban - to have a certain % of outdoor space, and "active" playgrounds. Offer tax incentives for developments with things like sports equipment or space (not just indoor space or gyms either - outdoor equipment that you see in parks: bars for chin ups, football fields etc..); swimming areas (not necessarily pools; maybe lake or dam areas) etc...; for bike paths. Damn - bike paths in EVERY SINGLE CITY.

Change the school lunch program: if you want to start teaching about healthy food tasting great, the US has a captive audience.

Teach home econ.

Offer tax breaks for somethings : I have no idea how this would work. Maybe gym membership; group sport membership. That might be nuts.

Disincentive other things through the tax system: not taxing consumer choices, but tax the $*%^ out of company choices. More than 50% of your menu/stock is X; 5% additional tax on all profits. Corporations are incredibly sensitive to pricing. Essentially, this would be a tax break for any food purveyor offering healthier choices.

Increase the number of trade and labour jobs/encourage splitting sedentary work - call centres, for example - with more active work. Again: maybe tax breaks for companies that could do this.

It's not just crap in that's the problem. Though it's a big problem. There's also the enormous difficulty with getting sufficient exercise in our cultures. We've got huge numbers of people in totally sedentary work. We live in communities where you have to drive places. Our entertainment is often in front of a screen. All of these things are problems.

And these things don't just case health problems - they give rise to enormous environmental damage. People in poor countries suffer enormously because of how we're organised. We consume, consume, consume. "things" and status are desirable.

We need a "whole of society" approach.

But yeah.

:)

We also need to bring about the revolution and sublimation of most of our behaviour. So... everything, but in a million little steps.

[OkToBeTakei]

I think Meda totally hit the nail on the head. As did Aretejo. I also have to echo jaelh in regards to being called out on NHS statistics but making sure to post a selection for comparison. Reputable and accredited sources but only being linked to blog posts. But that is what it is.

Meda certainly resonated the thoughts I have about approach and nuance. Saying that I am about to be brutally honest.

The brown eye comment was plain ridiculous. The argument that obesity is a myth is also ridiculous. The argument that the only way to lose weight is by lining the pockets of 'diet' food companies is also ridiculous. I don't think it takes anything other than a blind head in sand to see that.

Where for me it becomes as Meda quite rightly pointed out... individuality, it is about how happy you are as a person. It is about not being marginalised, but accepting that limitations may occur. It is probably seeing that although it may not be comfortable to see or read others views or discount statistics that may or may not be totally accurate that to totally discount them may appear to others as emotionally driven rather than objective. Understandable.

I think what Meda said about her OB would be the ideal. Unfortunately it is not and the medical profession will continue to alienate. It is crap.

I don't though and probably never will understand the premise that discussing difficult subjects needs to be accorded some in my opinion misnomers ie. 'fat shaming' to me that is a convenient way to shut down debate. It is also quite common at the moment on FJ. Very many 'in' phrases to shut down debate. A politically correct manner that totally dictates an agenda and prevents alternative opinion.

[jaelh]

RECESS.

Sorry. Damn. Recess with time to run and play.

[desertvixen]

Nothing is ever going to help the breastfeeding rates in the US until we offer moms better maternity leave and benefits. Obviously education is important too. But expecting a mom to return to work after 6 weeks (or sometimes less because she can't afford to go that long without pay; 8 weeks if she had a c-section) on very little sleep when her body has barely recovered and her hormones are still a wreck, pump several times a day in her car if she has one because there's often nowhere else to do it regardless of what the law says, and keep that up enough to feed her baby is just so ridiculously hard.

This. I got ten weeks, and mentally I was ready to go back, but there was definitely a physical adjustment. We went to a "formula at daycare/breastmilk with Mommy" system that worked really well, and I was able to not need to pump throughout the day.

The work issue is one, but the one that really annoys me is all the people who think women should breastfeed, just not, you know, in public.

[flyawaystray]

School lunches are pathetic, but unfortunately some people do rely on them to feed their kids because they are low income. A re-design would be great, but the school would have to be able to afford it.

[BlondeAgent007]

Chicago has terrible school lunches. I know the district I went to school in has great lunches. Well, not always great, but they have requirements they must meet. They need to provide 1/3 of the calories a child needs for the day. Two fried foods can't be served together (i.e. chicken nuggets and french fries), there must be a vegetable and a fruit option, and half the grains have to be whole, gradually switching them all to whole (no precise date for that). The districts in my area must comply with all those standards in order to get state funding.

The problem is with the "other" foods being served (Snack/soda machines). Kids would rather spend their $2 for lunch on a soda and a bag of chips than for a whole, relatively balanced school lunch. They can't offer the products that are being advertised towards kids regularly on tv but the machines can. The less money that goes into the school lunch system, the less funding they get, hence the quality of the food has to be lowered. It's a vicious cycle.

[OkToBeTakei]

There are no vending machines in my child's school.

The menu is sent out via e-mail and is rolling every 4 weeks. It typically costs £1.50 to £2.00 depending on choice. It is free for single parents or those below a certain earning threshold.

Typically from what I can see when I read the menu is soup. A hot meal. Salad bar, sandwiches. Fish and chips on a friday :lol: (catholic school...although they are baked apparently.) Yogurt, fresh fruit. Fruit is given most days if left over from the kitchen for free.

Hot meals seem to be curry/rice, steak pie and expected veg, casserole, spag bol, chicken dinner, couscous, various pasta, baked ham and pineapple (according to my child everybody hates it :lol: ) Baked potatoes, paninis etc. It is a long list. Bread is free as is water and a glass of milk (I think it is a poured by dinner lady, glass, according to child.)

Flavoured milk is available but is almost the same price as a meal as is juice.

For me I send a packlunch with soup. But she always has a school dinner on a Friday. In the Summer she tends to have school lunch, just the way the system works she gets more playtime with school dinner. Her responsibility is looking after her P1 (5yr old) so it makes it easier and more fun for her.

Huge drive about health and nutrition in schools here. I'm OK with most of it, but wish her to be balanced rather than focus on negative, I want her to be aware of both. It's a balance.