Cannibalism at Jamestown - what now, Dougie?

[hoipolloi]

Pretty interesting news from Jamestown (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22362831)

Newly discovered human bones prove the first permanent British settlers in North America turned to cannibalism over the cruel winter of 1609-10, US researchers have said.

Scientists found unusual cuts consistent with butchering for meat on human bones dumped in a rubbish pit.

The four-century-old skull and tibia of a teenage girl in James Fort, Virginia, was excavated from the dump last year.

James Fort, founded in 1607, was the earliest part of the Jamestown colony.

"The evidence is absolutely consistent with dismemberment and de-fleshing of this body," said Doug Owsley, a forensic anthropologist at the Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History in Washington DC.

Written documents had previously suggested the desperate colonists resorted to cannibalism - but the discovery of the 14-year-old girl's bones offer the first scientific proof.

Of course, I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that historical facts have not turned out to be what Vision Forum and Doug Phillips Is A Tool say they are.

:o :o

[Loveday]

This news is all over my FB feed this afternoon as I follow Jamestown Rediscovery, the Virginia Gazette, and other local news sources. I knew an announcement was coming today, but didn't expect this. Not really surprised, though, considering how horrific the Starving Time really was. But I have no idea what Doug Phillips is a tool has said about Jamestown. What am I missing? Or do I even want to know? :?

[docmom]

Clearly this is the work of evil, government, socialist, evolution believing "scientists". The marks on those bones were caused by dinosaur bites!

[Loveday]

Ignore my question above. A little internetz research has already shown me enough of Dougie's slant on the Jamestown story to make my eyes roll hard

Doug Phillips is a tool and a half.

[fundiefun]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... story.html

The remains of a 14 year old girl who appears to be Amish or Mennonite have been found who was a victim of cannibalism. Looks like we can add cannibal fundies to the list. I wonder how Douggie will celebrate Jamestown being so pure and a safe haven now.

[merrily]

A quick summary, loveday?

[hoipolloi]

A quick summary, loveday?

Here's a link to this VF festival of costumed leghumping: visionforumministries.org/events/jq/

Wonder how long it will be before Doug Phillips Is A Tool or one of his faux historians like Bill "A Marxist Done Me In" Potter tries to rebut this.

[Maggie Mae]

What does it say about me that I was halfway through the OP before I realized that we were talking about Jamestown and not Jonestown?

[salex]

Pretty interesting news from Jamestown (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22362831)

Of course, I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that historical facts have not turned out to be what Vision Forum and Doug Phillips Is A Tool say they are.

:o :o

However, this report would suggest that it was, as Doug Phillips the tool always wants "women and children first"! :dance:

[Marianne]

rationalchristianity.net/cannibal.html

So now the fundamentalists may say that God blesses cannibalism :)

[danvillebelle]

The way that the VF crowd romanticizes suffering (Jamestown, Plymouth, Titanic, etc.) has always seriously creeped me out. We are still on the VF mailing list; when the Titanic-themed catalog arrived last year with the pic of Virginia Phillips visibly, really crying on the cover, my oldest son said "WTH is up with these people? That is just WRONG."

I'm sure Dougie will say it's an ebil gubmint conspiracy or ignore it completely.

Doug Phillips is a Tool. :cray-cray:

[Loveday]

A quick summary, loveday?

Grrr...I had more than a quick summary written and then hit the wrong button and now it's gone. :angry-banghead:

Let me try again. Back in 2007, during Jamestown's 400th anniversary year, the official recognition of the anniversary was called a 'commemoration.' Doug didn't like that. He felt that the anniversary should be celebrated, so he organised an alternative called 'The Jamestown Quadricentennial: A Celebration of Our Providential History.' Of course, Doug being a tool, he conveniently brushed aside a lot of historical fact, such as the real reason most of the early Jamestown colonists came here, which was to make their fortune and then go back to England and spend it. Yes, the original charter for the colony mentions spreading the gospel to the natives, but that wasn't first and foremost on the colonists' minds. And they certainly weren't a bunch of patriarchal dominionists. :roll: But don't tell Dougie--he thinks we've all bought into leftist, liberal, revisionist history these days. ;)

In the comments to an article I found, someone posted a letter written by a group of concerned clergy protesting Dougie's event and published in the Virginia Gazette. Here's an excerpt: "According to the Vision Forum website, (visionforumministries.org), the festival is intended to highlight the role of the Jamestown settlers in bringing Christianity to North America, because Vision Forum feels that the official commemoration spent too much time apologizing for the treatment of African Americans and Native Americans, and not enough time celebrating God’s work at Jamestown." And another excerpt: "“Vision Forum also insists that the Native Americans of Jamestown were “happy†to turn over land to the settlers because they did not possess “Western and biblical concepts of property ownership.â€â€

According to another commenter, this group of clergy represent more than a dozen churches in Charles City County, near Jamestown, whose congregations are mainly African American and Chickahominy Indian. Two groups who would be very unlikely to want to call the Jamestown commemoration a 'celebration.' :?

Here's the link to the article: mininstrywatchman.wordpress.com/2007/06/18/vision-forums-jamestown-400-an-epic-week-for-doug-phillips/ When I first started reading it, I thought it was all pro-Dougie, but the more I read, the more I realised the writers were seriously questioning some of his motives. And some of the commenters are very informed as to Dougie's mission and don't care for it much. There's a lot more--and probably better-- online than this article, though, I've only just started looking around. Just type in 'Doug Phillips Jamestown.'

[Loveday]

Here's a link to this VF festival of costumed leghumping: visionforumministries.org/events/jq/

This made me snort. What a load of pompous verbiage. :roll:

And officials in Virginia did NOT ban the word 'celebration,' Dougie. They just chose not to use it this time, thanks to all we've learned about what REALLY happened at Jamestown since the last big anniversary in 1907 (come to think of it, they didn't call it a celebration then, either, it was called an 'exposition'). It's not revisionist, Dougie, it's historical research. We know more now than we did then. You might want to visit the bookshop at Jamestown and update your personal library.

Or not, knowing you.

[Dysfundamental]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/skeleton-of-teenage-girl-confirms-cannibalism-at-jamestown-colony/2013/05/01/5af5b474-b1dc-11e2-9a98-4be1688d7d84_story.html

The remains of a 14 year old girl who appears to be Amish or Mennonite.

Neither of those denominations existed in the 17th century, and the Jamestown settlers were all Church of England. Are you talking about the head covering? That was usual wear for all Englishwomen of that era.

[Loveday]

Neither of those denominations existed in the 17th century, and the Jamestown settlers were all Church of England. Are you talking about the head covering? That was usual wear for all Englishwomen of that era.

Yes, the Amish didn't come into being until the very late 1600s/early 1700s. The Mennonites were earlier, but I don't know if they called themselves that at first. But either way, that headcovering isn't typical of either group, historically or currently. It's just what women wore in their daily lives back then. :)

[YPestis]

I just read the article about the girl victim of cannibalism. It sounds pretty gruesome, but given that a party of 300 was reduced to 50 over the course of a winter, I can see the desperation. The VFers will just ignore all this evidence or claim it's "misinterpreted" because surely ye olde thyme, people didn't resort to cannibalism....they were faithful and had the bible! It must be nice to live in a bubble.

[Rachel333]

From what I understand, there were quite a few instances of cannibalism in the very early history of English settlers in North America. They were desperate, and as long as the person was already dead I don't really blame them. It's physically revolting, but morally it doesn't bother me all that much (is that terrible?). I don't know if I could do it even if I were starving, though, considering that I can't even bring myself to eat an animal.

[salex]

From what I understand, there were quite a few instances of cannibalism in the very early history of English settlers in North America. They were desperate, and as long as the person was already dead I don't really blame them. It's physically revolting, but morally it doesn't bother me all that much (is that terrible?). I don't know if I could do it even if I were starving, though, considering that I can't even bring myself to eat an animal.

I agree with you.

There is so much historical anecdotal evidence of this occuring everywhere under starvation conditions (at sea, on every continent, by a variety of people etc) that I would never say never. I hope that none of us ever find out what we would do if we were truly starving to death.

[Peas n carrots]

I think it's been suggested on FJ before that VF should do a Donner Party theme in the future. Dine with Dougie!

[revengeforwanda]

I think it's been suggested on FJ before that VF should do a Donner Party theme in the future. Dine with Dougie!

:clap:

VF could combine this with one of their Hazardous Journeys :roll: , except instead of surviving for months in twenty-six foot snow drifts Sierra Nevada with very little in supplies, the Small Penis Society members (membership requirements personally handled by Doug Phillips is a tool) could spend the afternoon "roughing it" on ATVs before returning to their five-star hotel for spa treatments and a gourmet dinner. Doug Phillips is a tool is completely and utterly useless. No way Dougie could have survived the gritty and tragic realities of any of the events (the Titanic sinking, Shackleton's expedition, etc.) that he celebrates. If Doug Phillips is a tool had been at Jamestown during the Starving Time, I suspect that he would have been one of the first to die, since he lacks both the practical skills and inner resources to survive a true life-and-death scenario. When I imagine Doug Phillips is a tool at Jamestown, I picture a pompous little man sobbing in the corner because he doesn't have time to play dress-up while fending off starvation. Dougie would have been one of the first to perish.

Doug Phillips is a tool. A complete, useless, and bitchy little tool.

[Sola]

:clap:

VF could combine this with one of their Hazardous Journeys :roll: , except instead of surviving for months in twenty-six foot snow drifts Sierra Nevada with very little in supplies, the Small Penis Society members (membership requirements personally handled by Doug Phillips is a tool) could spend the afternoon "roughing it" on ATVs before returning to their five-star hotel for spa treatments and a gourmet dinner. Doug Phillips is a tool is completely and utterly useless. No way Dougie could have survived the gritty and tragic realities of any of the events (the Titanic sinking, Shackleton's expedition, etc.) that he celebrates. If Doug Phillips is a tool had been at Jamestown during the Starving Time, I suspect that he would have been one of the first to die, since he lacks both the practical skills and inner resources to survive a true life-and-death scenario. When I imagine Doug Phillips is a tool at Jamestown, I picture a pompous little man sobbing in the corner because he doesn't have time to play dress-up while fending off starvation. Dougie would have been one of the first to perish.

Doug Phillips is a tool. A complete, useless, and bitchy little tool.

[So Says I]

I'm sure Dougie's liver would be lovely with some fava beans and a nice chianti. It's Sola's avatar... I could think of nothing else.

[gulag]

Neither of those denominations existed in the 17th century, and the Jamestown settlers were all Church of England. Are you talking about the head covering? That was usual wear for all Englishwomen of that era.

Yes, the Amish didn't come into being until the very late 1600s/early 1700s. The Mennonites were earlier, but I don't know if they called themselves that at first. But either way, that headcovering isn't typical of either group, historically or currently. It's just what women wore in their daily lives back then. :)

Amish splintered off from Mennonite under a Mennonite named Jakob Amman. All Anabaptists.

Jamestown was Puritans.

[revengeforwanda]

I'm sure Dougie's liver would be lovely with some fava beans and a nice chianti. It's Sola's avatar... I could think of nothing else.

:clap:

Dougie would be saved, and the entire Starving Time tragedy averted, if BRADRICK! were on the scene, homemade first responder credentials in hand. :angry-banghead: :roll:

Doug Phillips is a tool.

[Loveday]

Amish splintered off from Mennonite under a Mennonite named Jakob Amman. All Anabaptists.

Jamestown was Puritans.

Yes, the Mennonites were founded by a man named Menno Simons who lived from the 1490s to the 1560s, so they go back quite a ways, really. :)

But Jamestown was not Puritan, sorry. That was up north in New England. Jamestown was Church of England/Anglican.