NOT my big fat Gypsy Wedding

[tropaka]

Reality for Roma

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013 ... mania.html

[GodsKnickers]

This perpetual state of confusion I seem to be in lately, is getting really irritating. :lol:

Because I totally don't get this...*paranoid*

[alba]

Well, the TV series is predominantly about Irish travellers, so we're talking about two different cultural/ethnic groups here.

I'm surprised the Roma are going to Canada, though. It suggests there's a lot of discrimination against them throughout the EU.

Edited for riffles

[RosyDaisy]

It pisses me off that gypsies are painted as criminals and low-lives, and the TLC shows certainly aren't helping.

[rward]

Well, the TV series is predominantly about Irish travellers, so we're talking about two different cultural/ethnic groups here.

I'm surprised the Roma are going to Canada, though. It suggests there's a lot of discrimination against them throughout the EU.

Edited for riffles

They're treated like trash in the EU. It's shameful.

[2xx1xy1JD]

There's been a fair bit of controversy in Canada about changes to the refugee system. Refugees arriving from countries deemed "safe" get expedited hearings. Good for discouraging fraud and trafficking, but not so good for genuine Roma refugees from "safe" countries like Hungary.

Here's an article critical of the changes:

http://www.cjnews.com/?q=node/100140

[Dysfundamental]

Well, the TV series is predominantly about Irish travellers, so we're talking about two different cultural/ethnic groups here.

I think the US wedding series includes both Traveller and Romani families. There's another series, "American Gypsies", that's about Roma.

I've never seen either, in part because various Romani community leaders have been vocal about how inaccurate and stereotypical the portrayals are.

[crassy]

I'm writing my thesis on the prevalence of trafficking in the Roma/Sinta communities. This article doesn't even begin to touch on how terrible the situation is for the community.

[Irishy]

There's a lot of Roma gypsies in Ireland. All I've ever seen them do is beg (sometimes aggressively). They are really organised. They get dropped off to their spot by car, and are collected again in the evening. They also go door to door in the suburbs. 2 girls robbed my elderly next door neighbour while she went to get a glass of water for them. It seems that they are born and raised in this culture and the children don't stand a chance. It's very upsetting to see that many of them have been deliberately maimed as children to improve their begging income. I have not seen any maimed children but plenty of (now) adults with missing or deformed limbs prominently displayed. It's difficult to understand their culture for me but I'm guessing it has evolved out of years of oppression.

[Clementine]

They're treated like trash in the EU. It's shameful.

And they don't do anything to become more liked in the countries they visit.

Just last month my dad donated money to what he thought was a school for deaf and mute people - turned out to be a Roma scam, a friend of my family got robbed of her gold necklace by two Roma women who asked for the direction, I have almost been robbed twice in broad daylight by Roma, but managed to chase them off and I have had two Roma men who tried to get into my apartment. I called the police and they ran off. When I stopped at the McDonald's drive in a young Roma girl tried to reach into the car to steal my wallet. All this happened in April. One month.

They are everywhere in Sweden right now. In central Stockholm there is a Roma beggar every 50 to 100 metres and it seems that there are Roma beggars in every small town in the middle of nowhere too. This was during the cold season - I can't wait to see how this summer will be.

It is very difficult to have any sympathy for people who make my life and my elderly parent's life a lot more insecure. I felt sorry for the first wave of beggars who came here and used to give them money, but right now I just wish that we would close our borders to get rid of them.

I also wonder why they don't try to get jobs. Members of EU contries are free to work everywhere in the EU and there are lots and lots of people fro eastern Europe countries who come here to work in the building industry, do season work at farms and work as cleaners, gardeners and shoveling snow during the winter.

Why can't the Roma do the same?

[Sola]

Because who would employ them with the reputation they have?

We have a large population of Rroma in my town. They've been coming here for the last four years or so. So far we've not seen an increase in crime or begging from Rroma. If anything the crime in my town is committed by young white males with poor educational attainment and is generally alcohol and drugs related. The only issues we've had with Rroma so far that I've seen is poor school attendance when they first arrive. But that I understand considering that many Rroma are forced to attend poorly funded and equipped special schools in many areas of eastern Europe, regardless of their abilities. Many parents come here thinking that they will experience the same brutal system and prejudice here too. It takes a while, and my department is involved with this, but usually after around six months we see attendance improving as parents begin to trust and see the progress their kids are making.

[Clementine]

How does an employer know if they are Roma or not? They are from eastern Europe and should be able to work just like all the other workers from the same area that come here.

The Roma that come to Sweden don't settle here - they just come here to get money, one way or another, and then go back home. Like season workers, but begging instead of working.

I am sorry to say this, but they do nothing to improve their reputation when they are here. Most people feel sorry for them at first and after a few encounters with them no longer have much sympathy for them. Maybe it's different with the Roma who chose to make a new life in a country.

[Irishy]

I have to say I laughed out load when I read in the article "in search of work". I cannot name one Roma that I know of who is employed or one employer that employs a Roma. We have a business and we have never had a sniff of a Roma applying for a job. It's far more lucrative to sit at a parking meter and harass people for change.

[Tangy Bee]

I think the US wedding series includes both Traveller and Romani families. There's another series, "American Gypsies", that's about Roma.

I've never seen either, in part because various Romani community leaders have been vocal about how inaccurate and stereotypical the portrayals are.

I've seen the American Gypsy series on Nat Geo or Discovery. Can't remember which one. It's about a 5 gypsy brothers that live in NY. These guys drive nice cars and live in nice condos. They appear to make a living by owning psychic businesses. I think being psychic runs in their family. But...like most gypsies...they don't allow their daughters to do much with their lives. The guys get to do what they want before and after marriage. Marrying outside Roma is frowned upon. If a young gypsy couple run off without permission, they are considered, "married".

[Sola]

How does an employer know if they are Roma or not? They are from eastern Europe and should be able to work just like all the other workers from the same area that come here.

The Roma that come to Sweden don't settle here - they just come here to get money, one way or another, and then go back home. Like season workers, but begging instead of working.

I am sorry to say this, but they do nothing to improve their reputation when they are here. Most people feel sorry for them at first and after a few encounters with them no longer have much sympathy for them. Maybe it's different with the Roma who chose to make a new life in a country.

How do you know that the beggars are Rroma? If a prospective employer, who would have access to more information than the average person, wouldn't know then how would you know if the beggars are Rroma? You seem to be painting all Rroma with one brush. Some beg, some steal, so all must be bad. Does your town have no other criminals?

[LeatherCouch]

We have a Roma community within our small, rural community. They work construction mostly. Building houses, roofing houses (we hired them to roof ours and they did a fantastic job, guaranteed it, were very professional and didn't steal a thing :roll: ), road construction, painting, etc. They never cause trouble in the community. Ever. They do stick to themselves, enjoy their bling, and marry young (but that is not at all uncommon here, even among non-Roma), but I've never seen anything that indicates the bad reputation that they have in general is warranted. They have some of the nicer houses in town and drive nice cars. From what I've been told they do not rely on government assistance at all, but they work hard and take care of each other. I know others have had very different experiences with other Roma people groups, but obviously they aren't all the same. I am happy to have Roma as neighbors.

[Dysfundamental]

Every goddamned thread on the Internet that starts about documented persecution of Romani people turns into complaints about how "they're all crooks" and "they're all lazy". I honestly expected better here. Do folks not get how people who are marginalized by societies might give up on the idea of becoming participants in that society?

[FeministShrew]

From what I understand, the Irish Travellers in the US won't participate in the wedding series. The only Irish Traveller couple featured was a guy who's only half-traveller who was marrying an outsider.

I honestly don't know if there are any Roma around here or not (Upstate SC). I probably wouldn't know if I saw them or not.

When I was a kid a large group of Roma would travel through every year & camp at the state park near my house. My dad would tell us to make sure the doors were locked when the house was empty, & keep bikes & pets put up, but we never had any trouble with them.

Every couple of years there's a news story about Travellers scamming people with home improvement jobs. Right after I moved into my house a young guy came to the door wanting to blacktop my driveway. It didn't occur to me that he was Traveller or Roma until I saw the exact same scam on My Big Fat American Gypsy Wedding. His offer was word for word what they were showing.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Every goddamned thread on the Internet that starts about documented persecution of Romani people turns into complaints about how "they're all crooks" and "they're all lazy". I honestly expected better here. Do folks not get how people who are marginalized by societies might give up on the idea of becoming participants in that society?

QFT.

This article explains what is wrong with that thinking better than I can:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/bernie-far ... 73647.html

[BlackHawk]

There's a lot of Roma gypsies in Ireland. All I've ever seen them do is beg (sometimes aggressively). They are really organised. They get dropped off to their spot by car, and are collected again in the evening. They also go door to door in the suburbs. 2 girls robbed my elderly next door neighbour while she went to get a glass of water for them. It seems that they are born and raised in this culture and the children don't stand a chance. It's very upsetting to see that many of them have been deliberately maimed as children to improve their begging income. I have not seen any maimed children but plenty of (now) adults with missing or deformed limbs prominently displayed. It's difficult to understand their culture for me but I'm guessing it has evolved out of years of oppression.

Every Irish person I know is such a drunk. All I've ever seen them do is down beers, one after the other. They drive to the bar as soon as it opens, and then drive home in the evening after last call. They also stumble around drunk constantly, often times ending up in neighbor yards to vomit. Two Irish guys broke a neighbors window out because they thought they were at their own house, when in fact they weren't. The poor children suffer the worst. It seems they are born and raised in this culture and they don't stand a chance. It's very upsetting to see that many of them have been deliberately put in danger all so their families can drink. I see the worse drunks have so many children cause they often injure, maim or kill them in drunk driving accidents.

And they don't do anything to become more liked in the countries they visit.

Just last month my dad donated money to what he thought was a school for deaf and mute people - turned out to be a Roma scam, a friend of my family got robbed of her gold necklace by two Roma women who asked for the direction, I have almost been robbed twice in broad daylight by Roma, but managed to chase them off and I have had two Roma men who tried to get into my apartment. I called the police and they ran off. When I stopped at the McDonald's drive in a young Roma girl tried to reach into the car to steal my wallet. All this happened in April. One month.

They are everywhere in Sweden right now. In central Stockholm there is a Roma beggar every 50 to 100 metres and it seems that there are Roma beggars in every small town in the middle of nowhere too. This was during the cold season - I can't wait to see how this summer will be.

It is very difficult to have any sympathy for people who make my life and my elderly parent's life a lot more insecure. I felt sorry for the first wave of beggars who came here and used to give them money, but right now I just wish that we would close our borders to get rid of them.

I also wonder why they don't try to get jobs. Members of EU contries are free to work everywhere in the EU and there are lots and lots of people fro eastern Europe countries who come here to work in the building industry, do season work at farms and work as cleaners, gardeners and shoveling snow during the winter.

Why can't the Roma do the same?

Ugh Swedes do nothing to be liked in the countries they go to. I mean, last month, my dad thought he was going to marry a beautiful swedish woman, and it turned out, she was getting ready to marry two other men, such a gold digger. I mean, last week, this blond haired, blue eyed guy who MUST be a Swede cause they are the only people like that robbed my cousin. While sitting at the drive thru this blond haired blue eyed swede tried to steal my wallet.

Okay... I could go on and on and on. But I won't. I hope you can see the stupidity in your statements. You are marginalizing a whole population of people based off a stereotype you hold. Do you go and background check every beggar on the street? Do you run a genetic comparison on anyone who looks Roma in order to determine if they are Roma or merely someone who looks like a Roma? Do you see how your negative stereotype does nothing to help these people? Or do you choose to live in your ignorance? You are what's wrong with the world, just saying.

(And for reference, I was not truly making fun of anyone. I am of Irish decent myself and am not a drunk. The whole comparison was to point out the stupidity of the statements.)

[Irishy]

Most Irish people do drink a lot compared to Americans of Australians. It's true. It's very problematic and children do grow up with a culture of alcohol. Sometimes the stereotype is true.

There are a lot of different branches of Roma. The ones we have here come mostly from Romania and Moldova. They create a stir for lots of negative reasons and not too many positive ones. It's not like we're not used to "gypsies" here. We have had Irish travellers here forever and whilst they keep themselves to themselves largely, people are not suspicious of them. And I'm sorry, but if you're brought up to beg professionally and undereducated and married off at 16, you don't stand a chance.

You are right, my statements are incredibly sweeping and probably unfair. But when you see the same goddam teenage girls sitting on the pavements day in day out with babies who are ALWAYS asleep, and the same man with one trouser leg rolled up to expose a shrivelled and dead foot begging at the same traffic lights every day, it's hard not to get irritated.

[itaintmebabe]

I realize that the people shown on TLC's assorted Gypsy shows are not necessarily representative of their cultures. Even so, with that in mind and as crazy as it may sound, if given a choice of having to live with Duggars for one week in the TTH, or live with one of the Gypsy families in a little trailer for one day...

...I'd take the Duggars. Call me nuts, but I cannot tolerate that catfighting and in-yer-face acting out for one second.

I don't care if I'd have to help grandma do laundry all day. As ignorant and uneducated as the poor Duggars are, they'd be preferable to TLC's Gypsy shows that I've seen.

[BlackHawk]

Most Irish people do drink a lot compared to Americans of Australians. It's true. It's very problematic and children do grow up with a culture of alcohol. Sometimes the stereotype is true.

There are a lot of different branches of Roma. The ones we have here come mostly from Romania and Moldova. They create a stir for lots of negative reasons and not too many positive ones. It's not like we're not used to "gypsies" here. We have had Irish travellers here forever and whilst they keep themselves to themselves largely, people are not suspicious of them. And I'm sorry, but if you're brought up to beg professionally and undereducated and married off at 16, you don't stand a chance.

You are right, my statements are incredibly sweeping and probably unfair. But when you see the same goddam teenage girls sitting on the pavements day in day out with babies who are ALWAYS asleep, and the same man with one trouser leg rolled up to expose a shrivelled and dead foot begging at the same traffic lights every day, it's hard not to get irritated.

Pretty sure you missed my point, but we'll try again.

You are a racist. That is basically what this is coming down to. Your statements are sweeping and unfair, no probably about it really. You have decided that "those people" are beneath you, which makes you a horrible human being. Go educate yourself. That man with the one trouser leg rolled up is not standing there begging to piss you off, that I can guarantee. He doesn't do this to irritate you. Why do you care where he is standing and what he is doing. Does it affect you in any way?

Seriously, step off your high horse for a moment and really think about what you are saying.

[Irishy]

You don't know anything about it. You get off your fucking high horse. Come here and see their culture of oppression against women and children. THAT is the worst thing. Women and children are sent out to beg. They are threatened with violence. "Marked" banknotes are dropped in their cups by spies to make sure they are not stealing. The women cover their hair and wear skirts only. They are married ridiculously young. Education is scant at best. Children are brought up to steal and beg. Several well known "bosses" traffick gypsies here from Romania to beg. They then own them. I am most certainly not racist. I have zero issue with these or any other people on this earth choosing to make their home next door to me. It is the culture I despise and everything dangerous and deceitful it espouses. Just like I despise everything the fundie culture espouses. Do I know for a fact that every Roma gypsy in Ireland is engaged in the worst activities mentioned above? No. No more than you know for a fact that Michelle Duggar or Steve Maxwell actually ever hit any baby with plumbing line. Are you (or I or any of us) a racist because you talk shit about fundamentalists? You have a neck like a jockey's bollocks to call me a racist. You just like a good fight.

Eta the reason that the man with the leg irritates me is because I know that injury was inflicted on him as a child. To make him a better beggar. That is outrageous.

[persuas1ve]

I realize that the people shown on TLC's assorted Gypsy shows are not necessarily representative of their cultures. Even so, with that in mind and as crazy as it may sound, if given a choice of having to live with Duggars for one week in the TTH, or live with one of the Gypsy families in a little trailer for one day...

...I'd take the Duggars. Call me nuts, but I cannot tolerate that catfighting and in-yer-face acting out for one second.

I don't care if I'd have to help grandma do laundry all day. As ignorant and uneducated as the poor Duggars are, they'd be preferable to TLC's Gypsy shows that I've seen.

That's the problem with the American show...there is very little culture shown. It appears that for most of the families on the show, being Gypsy is merely an excuse for horrible behavior. They don't even appear to follow their own states cultural beliefs on purity: pregnancies out of wedlock etc.