"You Deserve Rape."

[Cannelle]

http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/ ... -ua-campus (Not breaking link because it's a college and I'm sure they don't care and that this will be discussed in plenty of places.)

'You Deserve Rape' sign causes controversy on UA campus

A student holding a sign that read “You deserve rape†ignited outrage across campus Tuesday, on the same day of a sexual assault awareness event, but administrators declined requests to remove him or his sign.

Dean Saxton — also known as Brother Dean Samuel — regularly preaches on the UA Mall in front of Heritage Hill and the Administration building. On Tuesday, his sermon drew the attention of onlookers, several of whom either personally confronted him or complained to the Dean of Students Office.

The Dean of Students Office received stacks of written complaints, emails and multiple phone calls regarding Saxton’s sermon about women, said Kendal Washington White, interim dean of students.

Saxton has never directly threatened anyone in particular, and his language has been general enough that he isn’t targeting a particular person, White said. However, a university attorney was contacted to discuss the situation.

“We find it to be vulgar and vile,†White said. “However, it is protected speech. He has yet to, at this point, violate the student code of conduct.â€

Saxton, a junior studying classics and religious studies, said his sermon was meant to convey that “if you dress like a whore, act like a whore, you’re probably going to get raped.â€

“I think that girls that dress and act like it,†Saxton said, “they should realize that they do have partial responsibility, because I believe that they’re pretty much asking for it.â€

Saxton’s sermon came ahead of the “Take Back the Night†event held Tuesday night, which aims to unite people against sexual violence. He said his decision to create the sign and display it was tied to the event and to the fact that April is Sexual Assault Awareness Month.

“[saxton] is part of a larger societal culture that tolerates rape, and that’s exactly what the Oasis Program Against Sexual Assault and Relationship Violence is here to counteract,†said Megan McKendry, a violence prevention specialist with Oasis, a program out of Campus Health Service. “His message is an awful one that we condemn. No one deserves to be raped.â€

University of Arizona Police Department officers also received multiple calls about an incident that took place around 12:40 p.m. involving Saxton, said Joe Bermudez, a spokesman for UAPD. The incident involved a student who tried to pull down Saxton’s sign.

Bermudez would not elaborate on the assault because the investigation is ongoing.

“I think if he’s trying to, you know, get people to know God, I think he’s just doing it wrong,†said Paola Gonzalez, a pre-pharmacy sophomore. “It is free speech, but I still disagree that he should be able to call other people names and we can’t call him names. He shouldn’t be able to call us names, either.â€

— Alison Dorf contributed to this article.

[debrand]

How is holding up a sign that says, "You deserve rape not sexual harassment or advocating violence?"

[nolongerIFBx]

http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2013/04/you-deserve-rape-sign-causes-controversy-on-ua-campus (Not breaking link because it's a college and I'm sure they don't care and that this will be discussed in plenty of places.)

First, I disagree with Saxon's sign. No one EVER deserves rape, EVER, EVER. However, I did a class in criminology the first eight-weeks of this semester and was shocked that the text almost seemed to agree with his statement, “I think that girls that dress and act like it, they should realize that they do have partial responsibility, because I believe that they’re pretty much asking for it.†While it is not DESERVED, and they are most likely not ASKING FOR IT (who would ?!?), this particular textbook on criminology did suggest that they had partial responsibility for it. It certaily set me and a few others off! I attend a state university so this was not some fundie-influenced textbook. It does seem that there are still a large majority of people who believe that a women is partially at fault in rape cases due to the way she is dressed, acts, or the place that she is at.

[Cannelle]

And that's why feminism is still needed. Because by the close I put on, by how I style my hair and do my makeup, by where I choose to be and the activities I choose to do, I'm asking for a crime to be committed against me. However, if a man gels up his hair, puts on some tight pants, and goes out for a few drinks at the bar with his friends, he's just looking to have a fun evening, not demanding to be assaulted. There's no level playing field. Fuck the patriarchy.

[danvillebelle]

:angry-banghead: :head-desk: :angry-cussingblack: :angry-cussing: :angry-screaming:

This bonehead just better be glad I wasn't there.

I was raped by a boyfriend when I was 15. I have been told numerous times, once by a trusted religious figure no less, that I had to accept at least partial responsibility - for being with the boyfriend, for being at his home, for ingesting the drugs (it was pot - I thought it was just the normal pot we usually smoked, it was laced with something that incapacitated me for hours, he knew that), for having been sexually active with him before that...for, for, for, ad nauseum ad pukeus ad infinitum.

I buried it and ignored it for decades and now I am in therapy and on medications for the way that particular incident (among many, I have lots of other issues to deal with as well) royally fucked up my life. I still have to keep myself from flinching or screaming when my beloved husband of 20+ years touches me in a certain way or comes up behind me and touches me when I'm not expecting it.

I did not ask to be violently assaulted. I was 15 and trusted someone who turned out to be a sociopathic asshat. I did not fucking ask for anything. Ugh, ugh, UGH! :angry-cussingblack:

[rollmeover]

It's an unusual approach to sharing the love of Christ with others. I hope he finds himself surrounded by Christians who share his special brand of Christianity when he is in need of love, compassion and justice.

I am interested in the legal aspects. Just reading the title of the thread was like a punch in the stomach for me - I can't imagine walking past him as a survivor of rape and being able to feel safe on campus.

Shame on him and love and light to everyone hurt by his stupidity, here and at his campus.

[doggie]

So according to his logic he deserves to be beaten up cause he is asking for it?

[lilah]

So according to his logic he deserves to be beaten up cause he is asking for it?

*golf claps*

[2xx1xy1JD]

It's an unusual approach to sharing the love of Christ with others. I hope he finds himself surrounded by Christians who share his special brand of Christianity when he is in need of love, compassion and justice.

I am interested in the legal aspects. Just reading the title of the thread was like a punch in the stomach for me - I can't imagine walking past him as a survivor of rape and being able to feel safe on campus.

Shame on him and love and light to everyone hurt by his stupidity, here and at his campus.

It depends on whatever code of conduct is in place at the university. On some campuses, if it isn't illegal (ie. specific, direct threat of violence), the university won't ban it. Being triggering or rage-inducing isn't enough.

Whatever the rules are, they need to be applied across the board. So, hypothetically, the university would also need to allow a counter-protest involving signs saying "You deserve castration if you advocate sexual violence".

[salex]

It's an unusual approach to sharing the love of Christ with others. I hope he finds himself surrounded by Christians who share his special brand of Christianity when he is in need of love, compassion and justice.

I think that it is following the Fred PHelps method, which, in word and more and more in deed is becoming more mainstream. FRA and Pat Robertson and Doug the tool and his father and others all say the same thing that Phelps says, but they don't all carry the big signs.

[HereticHick]

I take a bit of comfort in knowing that any future employer or date can google his name and find all this. And that thre is a powerful movement about rape culture that is spreading nationwide, and beyond. There are far more of us than there are Brother Deans in the world.

[PennySycamore]

I'd like for this piece of shit what the French teacher at my high school did to provoke the man who raped her. She was probably about 60 and, IIRC, always wore her hair up in a bun. She always dressed quite modestly. There was nothing at sexually enticing about this woman, but she was still raped. Explain that, asshole!

FWIW, this happened over 40 years ago. I think the teacher retired not long after this happened.

[Mela99]

No level of hell is deep enough for this

[Claddagh]

“I think that girls that dress and act like it,†Saxton said, “they should realize that they do have partial responsibility, because I believe that they’re pretty much asking for it.â€

This terrifies me.

It doesn't matter if a woman is walking stark naked down the street--no one asks for it!

Trigger warning.

When my ex-boyfriend came after me with a knife and tried to rape me I was wearing long shorts and a loose fitting shirt. Nothing sexy there.

I got accused of making it up/asking for it by the police, my former best friend, him, and his family. Many of the police officers are/were good friends with his family and said he's a "good" kid. Not one single solitary person believed me. I didn't tell anyone else for three years until I finally told a friend. I cried when she told me that she believed me.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Like someone said in another thread, women in burkas are raped. Infants are raped. What you wear doesn't matter. You think a rapist would reconsider if you wore a long skirt? I guess women in the 1800s on the prairie never got raped. No one got raped in the middle ages. Makes so much sense :/

[dairyfreelife]

I'd like for this piece of shit what the French teacher at my high school did to provoke the man who raped her. She was probably about 60 and, IIRC, always wore her hair up in a bun. She always dressed quite modestly. There was nothing at sexually enticing about this woman, but she was still raped. Explain that, asshole!

FWIW, this happened over 40 years ago. I think the teacher retired not long after this happened.

I think that's the problem. Say I was beautiful (I can dream), maybe some men walking by found me beautiful as well, even had a brief thought about me being totally sexy naked (I'm a sexy beast), that still does not give them the right to my body. I have seen men I think are damn sexy, but it never once occurred to me to think I had any right to his body because I don't. Don't down elderly women's sex appeals. If she was married or had a boyfriend or ever was with someone, they likely found her sexually enticing. The difference is that decent men can think about women as sexually enticing, but they know they don't have the right to anyone's body.

It's also vital to remember, that this moron clearly doesn't know or knows and doesn't give a shit, rape is not about sex. Rape is all about control and power over someone else.

[rward]

FUCK HIM.

I walk everywhere. Therefore, I get harassed* a lot. In the winter, when I'm wearing 6 layers and look like that kid from The Christmas Story ("I can't put my arms down!"). When I'm walking my dog in loose, casual clothing that hides my shape. When I'm dressed for work at a law office. At 6 am. At noon. At night. In good neighborhoods, downtown, at Walmart.

It does not matter what I wear or don't wear, what time of day, amount of sunlight, activity or location. The only thing I "do" to incite sexual harassment is be female in public. That's it. That's really all it takes.

*One guy repeatedly asked me "how much for a blow job?" in January while I was walking my dog one block from my house at 5 pm. I ignored him. That enraged him so much he spat on me. He recently saw me again and shouted "fuck you, whore!" and threw a half full can of beer at me from a moving car.

Being a woman in public is a scary thing.

[doggie]

*One guy repeatedly asked me "how much for a blow job?" in January while I was walking my dog one block from my house at 5 pm. I ignored him. That enraged him so much he spat on me. He recently saw me again and shouted "fuck you, whore!" and threw a half full can of beer at me from a moving car.

Being a woman in public is a scary thing.

You should really call the police on him before it gets worse he has assaulted you.

[Childless]

I had some moron whistle and cat call at me while I was walking with my son one day. A woman 20 pounds overweight, dressed in loose jeans, a big, bulky 30 year old winter coat that fell to my knees, a knit hat, and gloves pushing a toddler in a stroller around a suburban neighborhood. Let me tell you, I was smokin' :roll: And yet, a man still harassed me.

Seems to me it's the men in this country that have the problem. I'm able to control myself and not insult other people. To bad a lot of guys can't say the same thing.

[mlady]

This all stems from the idea that men are not responsible for their penis. If that's true, and men want woman to accept responsibility for their rapes, men would need to be treated as perpetual children and potential criminals 24/7. I never hear men advocating that for some reason.

[rollmeover]

I think that it is following the Fred PHelps method, which, in word and more and more in deed is becoming more mainstream. FRA and Pat Robertson and Doug the tool and his father and others all say the same thing that Phelps says, but they don't all carry the big signs.

I wonder if it is because of the cult of "big strong manly" christians? You know, how because Jesus was a sap who went about going meekly to his death instead of kicking ass, christian men have got to stand up and be all rugged...either in nasty talk/writing or in ridiculous crappy and offensive stunts like this loser (or dominating their wife and kids or going on risible adventures up huge mountains like ben nevis)?

I am amazed at how nasty and rude and combative discourse is among some christian men (some women too, but mainly in my experience men and tied specifically to their sex and their supposed role in God's order) - and how being so-called brave and bold and speaking truth unto the world means they forget about love and mercy. Jesus did say to the woman taken in adultery "go and leave your life of sin"which to modern ears is pretty harsh I suppose, but he didn't call her names, mock her, relish the prospect of her burning in hell, write her off as beneath contempt because of her choices or say she deserved to be stoned or raped.

[sarahbrownie]

Buzzfeed has some of his tweets online. http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/no-s ... -rape-sign?

Its actually quite scary how much of a tool he is. He has a shirt that says "will u submit to me?" with the subtitle "perfect question for the first date." YUCK!

[2xx1xy1JD]

Buzzfeed has some of his tweets online. http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/no-s ... -rape-sign?

Its actually quite scary how much of a tool he is. He has a shirt that says "will u submit to me?" with the subtitle "perfect question for the first date." YUCK!

Sure it's the perfect first date question - it allows the other person the opportunity to run screaming and ensure that there is absolutely no contact ever, ever again, before they run the risk of actually developing an emotional connection.

[Aine]

What I don't get is why more men aren't just as outraged over this imbecile's sign. Comments about how women "deserve rape" imply that men are somehow devoid of self-control and freedom of choice. That they're completely and totally ruled by their penises and cannot be around a woman without thinking about sex. I know my partner would be horrified if I tried to tell him he couldn't control his own impulses and had a right to rape women.

This is honestly just another symptom of the disgusting rape culture that is alive and well. Even the everyday use of the word 'rape' to describe things that aren't sexual assault (I have friends who will say they're going to 'rape that burger' or 'rape their bed tonight', my 13 year old brother was joking with his friend the other day about 'raping things' and laughing- but they use it as a synonym for 'destroy'). We haven't reached a point in history yet where sexual assault is recognised by all as a truly horrific crime that deserves the full attention of the law and society- if we had, MAYBE it could be argued that this colloquial usage of 'rape' didn't matter, but it does. Rape is a joke. If there isn't physical proof, no one wants to jeopardise ruining a man's life, never mind about the woman's.

[FreeJosie]

Buzzfeed has some of his tweets online. http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/no-s ... -rape-sign?

Its actually quite scary how much of a tool he is. He has a shirt that says "will u submit to me?" with the subtitle "perfect question for the first date." YUCK!

Perfect question to ensure that he won't get a second date!

What an asshole.