WBC is the devil - per Phelps-Roper

[MamaJunebug]

I hadn't heard that more of Shirley Phelps-Roper's children had left the Westboro Baptist (not) Church (hardly), so if this is a repeat, I apologize and any mod may merge it.

 

Part of SP-R's comments of record, as quoted in the HuffPo piece, amazes me for its candor:

 

 

Quote

"Our job is laid out," Phelps-Roper told NPR last year. "We are supposed to blind their eyes, stop up their ears and harden their hearts so that they cannot see, hear or understand, and be converted and receive salvation."

 

As I have always understood it from a mainstream Christian point of view, that is the work of Satan - to turn people from the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

 

Kudos to SP-R for admitting as such, more kudos to NPR and especially to HuffPo for keeping it front-and-center in news about the incomprehensible group.

 

source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/0 ... 38436.html

[RachelB]

Interesting. I had heard that Megan and Grace got out of WBC, but I hadn't realized until reading the linked article that Westboro was a non-evangelizing Calvinist outfit. I mean, that seems to be the gist of Shirley's comments to me: M&G's decision to leave was a sign that they weren't elect, and Shirley was utterly unsentimentally going to wash her hands of those children, who were going to burn in hell. She wasn't going to try to win them back, because they had proven themselves unregenerate. Though if WBC members don't think of themselves as evangelizing, because only God can win souls, I don't understand what they think they're doing speaking and/or waving signs about in public at all. Goodness knows it's not for the health and happiness of us onlookers.

[Stephanie66]

Correct. Once a child leaves the fold, they are banished and may not come back. Even speaking to them would mean that they are speaking to Satan.

[MamaJunebug]

Interesting. I had heard that Megan and Grace got out of WBC, but I hadn't realized until reading the linked article that Westboro was a non-evangelizing Calvinist outfit. I mean, that seems to be the gist of Shirley's comments to me: M&G's decision to leave was a sign that they weren't elect, and Shirley was utterly unsentimentally going to wash her hands of those children, who were going to burn in hell. She wasn't going to try to win them back, because they had proven themselves unregenerate. Though if WBC members don't think of themselves as evangelizing, because only God can win souls, I don't understand what they think they're doing speaking and/or waving signs about in public at all. Goodness knows it's not for the health and happiness of us onlookers.

I have wondered this, too, as I"m finishing up Lauren Drain's memoirs, "Banished." Apparently it is to gloat, torment and torture these souls with the knowledge that even if they repent and beg to be admitted to church/heaven, the answer will be "no" because they are foreordained irreversibly to damnation.

This is nuts. ONe of my old friends is an active Presbyterian, and while I'm sure he tacitly accepts that such is the truth, I can't imagine that he would go so far as to say that someone who repents and believes is still damned. I'm guessing he'd say, "Well, anyone who repents/believes obviously wasn't damned to begin with." Calvin got it all wrong, IMO, and it takes just one evil-minded jerk like Fred Phelps to really muck it up. I feel so badly for the kids who may never figure it out and get out.

I don't thnk SR-P was referring only to her children with the quote in the initial post. I think that's her/WBC's belief about most people: they are predestined to damnation, and it's her/WBC's mission to make sure they know it. For what good purpose, I do not know. It's more than perverse.

[nelliebelle1197]

Half his grandchildren and a third of Fred Phelps' children have left the flock. I wonder how many more will escape? WBC seems like the horrifying type of cult imaginable. I am glad some are escaping. I hope they can find supports.

[alba]

I have wondered this, too, as I"m finishing up Lauren Drain's memoirs, "Banished." Apparently it is to gloat, torment and torture these souls with the knowledge that even if they repent and beg to be admitted to church/heaven, the answer will be "no" because they are foreordained irreversibly to damnation.

This is nuts. ONe of my old friends is an active Presbyterian, and while I'm sure he tacitly accepts that such is the truth, I can't imagine that he would go so far as to say that someone who repents and believes is still damned. I'm guessing he'd say, "Well, anyone who repents/believes obviously wasn't damned to begin with." Calvin got it all wrong, IMO, and it takes just one evil-minded jerk like Fred Phelps to really muck it up. I feel so badly for the kids who may never figure it out and get out.

I don't thnk SR-P was referring only to her children with the quote in the initial post. I think that's her/WBC's belief about most people: they are predestined to damnation, and it's her/WBC's mission to make sure they know it. For what good purpose, I do not know. It's more than perverse.

I live in a country that's majority Presbyterian, and I don't think many modern Presbyterians still go for this crap. Like most mainstream Christians, I think they do believe that you have to accept Jesus to be saved, yadayadayada, but there's no bullying of the "unsaved", which might be because religion is considered a very private matter here.

Of course, we do have the Wee Frees who are afraid of things like ferry service on Sunday and Jedi weddings :lol:

[CelticGoddess]

Interesting. I had heard that Megan and Grace got out of WBC, but I hadn't realized until reading the linked article that Westboro was a non-evangelizing Calvinist outfit. I mean, that seems to be the gist of Shirley's comments to me: M&G's decision to leave was a sign that they weren't elect, and Shirley was utterly unsentimentally going to wash her hands of those children, who were going to burn in hell. She wasn't going to try to win them back, because they had proven themselves unregenerate. Though if WBC members don't think of themselves as evangelizing, because only God can win souls, I don't understand what they think they're doing speaking and/or waving signs about in public at all. Goodness knows it's not for the health and happiness of us onlookers.

I am convinced that a huge part of why they protest for for fame and money. They sue a lot! Any time someone attacks back, assaults, attempts to stop or vandalizes their property, they sue. They are a bunch of narcissistic assholes.

[salex]

[quote

I live in a country that's majority Presbyterian, and I don't think many modern Presbyterians still go for this crap. Like most mainstream Christians, I think they do believe that you have to accept Jesus to be saved, yadayadayada, but there's no bullying of the "unsaved", which might be because religion is considered a very private matter here.

The Presbyterian church I went to was pretty easy going. There were discussions before sunday school that Heaven would likely be a really great golf course. The predestination "thing" was more or less dismissed by my favorite pastor there, who said it was mostly developed to keep the illiterate masses , mostly roman catholic at the time, from worrying about going to hell if they died after missing confession. Of course, she also preached a sermon that referred to the "first of the creation myths in genesis" And we had lesbian couples among the members, so we were pretty far from fundy.

I think the belief is that mostly everyone one is among the select, which is why we owe it to everyone to help them in life. By the time I quit going, we were having Sierra Club members give presentations during the service. Let's just say it wasn't meeting any spiritual needs once my favorite minister left.

I was raised pretty liberal Methodist, and the joke among my friends as an adult is a Presbyterian was a Methodist who could have wine with dinner. I had never even heard of the fundie/theocratic group of Presbyterians!