19 Kids and Counting 2013 - The Duggars Do Part 2

[Mama Mia]

As a child welfare intake worker, I take child abuse reports almost daily. I also personally have had severe reactions to poison ivy, including the time when I was a child and my sister and I decided to use what turned out to be poison ivy leaves as pretend powder puffs on our faces. There are no itchy red welts on Hannie's face. She looks exactly like a child abuse victim. It is possible that some sort of accident caused the bruising and swelling. However, the fact that she is verbal really is not helpful because she does not go to school or anywhere that she can talk to someone out of earshot of her family members. Even the film crew could be seen to be on her parents' sides because their livelihoods depend on filming this family. It is always difficult to investigate allegations regarding a child who does not go to school, because even if you interview the children with the parent out of the room, they are generally just outside and that does not give children a sense of security if the parent is the abuser.

Edited to fix typos.

Her cheek looks like poison oak welts to me, and the way her eye is swollen looks more like the allergic reaction of poison oak than the kind of bruising you get with a black eye. It looks like it was probably worse a week or so ago and is on the healing end.

We are JUST getting over a bad bout in our family, that is why I'm noticing the similarities.

[Luvchild]

As a child welfare intake worker, I take child abuse reports almost daily. I also personally have had severe reactions to poison ivy, including the time when I was a child and my sister and I decided to use what turned out to be poison ivy leaves as pretend powder puffs on our faces. There are no itchy red welts on Hannie's face. She looks exactly like a child abuse victim. It is possible that some sort of accident caused the bruising and swelling. However, the fact that she is verbal really is not helpful because she does not go to school or anywhere that she can talk to someone out of earshot of her family members. Even the film crew could be seen to be on her parents' sides because their livelihoods depend on filming this family. It is always difficult to investigate allegations regarding a child who does not go to school, because even if you interview the children with the parent out of the room, they are generally just outside and that does not give children a sense of security if the parent is the abuser.

Edited to fix typos.

As a cw intake worker, could a picture like this on the internet spur someone from the agency in Arkansas to at least call and ask what happened to her? Just wondering . . .

[Feberin]

I don't think the Duggars would ever allow Hannie to be photographed or filmed if she'd been beaten. They're crazy, but not that stupid.

I agree! I think if there had been abuse then the Duggars would have been smart enough to send Hannie to Josh and Anna's when the film crew was around or have Grandma take Hannie somewhere to get her out of the way. Her absence could easily have been covered up and there are enough people that it would have been tricky to make sure Hannie was actually missing from the entire episode. And if necessary they could have fed some BS like Hannie wanted to help Anna with the little ones or something.

Also although she's a lot younger and her brusies aren't as bad my ten month old has a big bruise underneath her eye right now from have fallen into a table that she was trying to use to pull herself up. While Hannie's isn't learning to walk she is very active and we frequently see her doing dangerous things.

[Lillybee]

I tend to agree. I think Hannie took a nasty fall. She is active and those kids are unsupervised.

[lilith]

As a cw intake worker, could a picture like this on the internet spur someone from the agency in Arkansas to at least call and ask what happened to her? Just wondering . . .

It would have actually occurred months ago - there is a fair gap between filming and airing the episodes.

[JenniferJuniper]

I tend to agree. I think Hannie took a nasty fall. She is active and those kids are unsupervised.

It's on both sides of her face and there is no evidence of bruising.

Coming from a family that's pretty much allergic to everything, I've seen the look before. Severe allergic reaction to something. Child needs an Epi-Pen for certain.

[Mama Mia]

It's on both sides of her face and there is no evidence of bruising.

Coming from a family that's pretty much allergic to everything, I've seen the look before. Severe allergic reaction to something. Child needs an Epi-Pen for certain.

This is probably a stupid question, but it just occurred to me -- do you know if an epi-pen would work on lessening poison oak ? My one kid is SO impacted, it would be wonderful if there was something she could take to minimize it.

[Miggy]

My son's epipen gives him a huge shot of adrenaline which keeps his heart beating until someone can get him medical help. Benadryl is the standard drug for a bad reaction and the epipen is only used in situations where he is about to die. Talk to your doctor ...

Edited to add: wikipedia.org/wiki/Epinephrine_autoinjector

[JenniferJuniper]

This is probably a stupid question, but it just occurred to me -- do you know if an epi-pen would work on lessening poison oak ? My one kid is SO impacted, it would be wonderful if there was something she could take to minimize it.

It's not a stupid question at all. Epi-Pens are primarily used in very urgent (i.e. throat closing) situations. If someone has a very severe reaction to poison oak/ivy it might be helpful. It probably wouldn't be needed in typical reactions to the plant.

However, if Hannie were my child and that sort of severe face swelling was caused by any allergy, I'd have an Epi-Pen on hand. My son nearly died from a reaction to his first pistachio nut at age 8 and it turns out he's pretty much allergic to everything. If a child is prone to allergic reactions, I think it’s always better safe than sorry. Check with your child's doctor.

[Mama Mia]

It's not a stupid question at all. Epi-Pens are primarily used in very urgent (i.e. throat closing) situations. If someone has a very severe reaction to poison oak/ivy it might be helpful. It probably wouldn't be needed in typical reactions to the plant.

However, if Hannie were my child and that sort of severe face swelling was caused by any allergy, I'd have an Epi-Pen on hand. My son nearly died from a reaction to his first pistachio nut at age 8 and it turns out he's pretty much allergic to everything. If a child is prone to allergic reactions, I think it’s always better safe than sorry. Check with your child's doctor.

Thank you, that's very interesting. I had always just associated the epi-pens with foods a bee stings and it never occurred to me until this thread that it could be useful otherwise ! I'll definitely suggest she talk to her Doctor ( she's a grown up now ).. Sometimes the things I learn here by chance amaze me :D

[Chibi Author]

Quite frankly, with that house the way it is, I'm honestly surprised that none of the kids have broken their necks.

Poor Hannie.

[miffy]

Quite frankly, with that house the way it is, I'm honestly surprised that none of the kids have broken their necks.

Poor Hannie.

That walkway connecting each end of the second story of the TTH freaks me out. I wouldn't even have been able to walk up those stairs without clutching the bannister until I was about 16.

[Mama Mia]

That walkway connecting each end of the second story of the TTH freaks me out. I wouldn't even have been able to walk up those stairs without clutching the bannister until I was about 16.

Yeah I can not imagine having a ton of small children, planning on having a ton more, getting to design my own house and purposefully planning those stairs and walkway ! I think that is the most obviously asinine thing they have done. I can't even imagine what their reasoning was on that one.

[miffy]

Yeah I can not imagine having a ton of small children, planning on having a ton more, getting to design my own house and purposefully planning those stairs and walkway ! I think that is the most obviously asinine thing they have done. I can't even imagine what their reasoning was on that one.

Without even having a gate at the bottom of the stairs! Kids love stairs. My parents house has two flights & whenever we had friends over the games would inevitably end up on the stairs, sliding down, leaping onto pillows on the landing, getting hurt, getting yelled at, etc. Fun!

[MrMattyMatt]

The stairs and walkways at the TTH freak me out too. Especially when they show the little ones crawling up the stairs or playing right at the top of them.

[ILoveJellybeans]

That walkway connecting each end of the second story of the TTH freaks me out. I wouldn't even have been able to walk up those stairs without clutching the bannister until I was about 16.

I think theyre used to it as theyre climbing on it before they can walk. I think I would be freaked out over climbing it as a kid though.

So far, we have seen Jordyn get her head stuck, Josie dragging up some toys, Jenny crawling down the stairs on her stomach cause JimBob left her there to go see another kid who was crying. All of these kids were about 2 or 3 at the time...I am suprised we havent seen any of the kids fall down there.

It looks really dangerous.

[alba]

I think the staircase thing kind of epitomizes Dim Bulb and Jichelle's general attitude of placing their wants before their children's needs. THEY wanted a a cool walkway, so who cares if it puts the blessings in danger?

Either that or it gives them an excuse to put their adult offspring in the same bedroom as young children.

[patsymae]

I think maybe the house was built to be a TV arranged more for filming needs than children's needs. Aside from all the safety hazards, they sure don't make very good use of all that space.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think it was purely so the camera crews can get good shots from above. Putting a gate up would be against Gothard rules I think (the Pearls mention not putting gates up because they believe in houseproofing the baby rather than babyproofing the house...which generally means beating the children until theyre too scared to touch anything)

Normal families with loads of kids would have had a normal stairway and used the extra space to create a few more bedrooms.

[alba]

Oh, fair point about the filming. My point about it being more for the parents' desires than the children's needs still stands, though ;)

It is ridiculous that they only have three bedrooms with all that unused space.

[MrMattyMatt]

...used the extra space to create a few more bedrooms.

But DumbBob said that the kids wanted to all sleep in the same rooms!

[BoomerLynn]

I think I have a small heart attack every time I see those little kids playing on those stairs. Wasn't Jennifer or Johanna climbing up the outside of the railing in one episode? I think Anna was watching the younger ones at the time and she ran and pulled her off.

[JenniferJuniper]

But DumbBob said that the kids wanted to all sleep in the same rooms!

I felt a little sorry for Jed in that clip where he was talking about how he'd never want to have his own room and he really enjoyed sleeping in a room with 7 or 8 brothers (I personaly think JD has flown the coop). Yeah, we all know how 14 year old boys hate their privacy. :whistle:

[Maia68]

I'm sorry that I don't know how to do a quote yet, but in response to the question of whether CPS could take a report from a picture on the Internet: I can't speak for Arkansas, but we have taken reports on crazy things that people have posted on Facebook when family or friends have brought them to our attention. The fact that it is an old picture would be a big problem, as it is very hard to investigate something that happened in the past. Also add in the fact that people can't agree on whether these marks look like bruising or an allergic reaction(and I have seen bruising that looks exactly like what is in those pictures, but that is my experience). We would probably ask the physician who is our forensic specialist to see if he felt he could give an opinion. That would be a difficult one, though. Not saying any bruising couldn't have been caused by those wild crazy antics those kids get up to when they are not supervised.

[pineapplegirl]

Having all of the siblings in one room makes is easier/essential for the JSlaves to mind their children-opps, I mean buddies :lol: