19 Kids and Counting 2013 - The Duggars Do Part 2

[Mama Mia]

First thing my husband said when he saw the close up pic was "someone beat the crap outta her, what happened". I didn't tell him who it was until he'd seen the picture. Our oldest daughter suffers from allergic reactions so various things like dogs, cats, and perfumes that make her eyes swell up like she's gotten black eyes and the thing that strikes me about this picture is that if Johanna had an allergic reaction it would be both eyes. Our oldest doesn't just have one eye swell up. The other thing that strikes me is that if it was a fall why is she scraped up on her right check and jaw but the left eye is almost swollen shut? If she'd had a fall and gotten that banged up on the cheek why wouldn't the other eye be swelled up as well. It really looks more to me like someone hit her :cry: I sure hope she's okay...

To the bolded: That's not always true. I used to often get colds and allergic reactions that just effect one eye. I would walk around looking like I got punched. It was pretty embarrassing, and everyone assumes you were hit !

It was always the same eye, so I'm assuming there is some small malfunction in the tear ducts or something , it never bothered me enough to find out.

She also could have poison oak. Sometimes if someone gets it very bad they get that beat up look.

eta: just saw the poison ivy comments. I don't think it 's negligence if a kid gets poison oak/ivy, that seems pretty over the top. If you are going to let your kid play outside, they might get it. And people who are very sensitive to it can get it from just a tiny bit of the oil that someone else has brought in on their clothes. Hopefully if they know one of their kids gets it super badly they try to eradicate it, but you can't wrap your kid in bubble wrap.

[JenniferJuniper]

eta: just saw the poison ivy comments. I don't think it 's negligence if a kid gets poison oak/ivy, that seems pretty over the top. If you are going to let your kid play outside, they might get it. And people who are very sensitive to it can get it from just a tiny bit of the oil that someone else has brought in on their clothes. Hopefully if they know one of their kids gets it super badly they try to eradicate it, but you can't wrap your kid in bubble wrap.

Have you seen the grounds surrounding the Duggar compound on Google earth? Acres of areas to play that don't involve vegetation of any kind. And Michelle has said her kids react very badly to poison ivy.

It absolutely is negligence if you know for certain your kids have severe problems with a certain substance and you 1) have the means to remove it; 2) have plenty of other areas for your kids to play and 3) if all else fails, don't have someone supervise your small children to keep them away from the problem area.

No, you can't wrap your kids in a bubble but that's not a pass for parents to ignore reality.

[singsingsing]

Sorry, but I don't think it's negligence to not be in total control of your kid's behaviour 24/7. Johannah is old enough to know what poison ivy is, to know what it looks like, and to know not to touch it or go near it. We don't even know that she did get into poison ivy, and if she did, we have no idea how it happened. There are a lot of things to criticize the Duggars about but, in my opinion, this is not one of them.

[JenniferJuniper]

Sorry, but I don't think it's negligence to not be in total control of your kid's behaviour 24/7. Johannah is old enough to know what poison ivy is, to know what it looks like, and to know not to touch it or go near it. We don't even know that she did get into poison ivy, and if she did, we have no idea how it happened. There are a lot of things to criticize the Duggars about but, in my opinion, this is not one of them.

No, we don't know it's poison ivy, but if it is, bullshit on the Duggars not being negligent.

Hannie is 7 and her younger sisters are 3, 4, and 5. Michelle is on record giggling about the kids' reaction to poison ivy.

Defend away, but they suck as parents on so many levels.

[Luvchild]

Sorry, but I don't think it's negligence to not be in total control of your kid's behaviour 24/7. Johannah is old enough to know what poison ivy is, to know what it looks like, and to know not to touch it or go near it. We don't even know that she did get into poison ivy, and if she did, we have no idea how it happened. There are a lot of things to criticize the Duggars about but, in my opinion, this is not one of them.

Seriously? I am 44 and I wouldn't know what poison ivy is. I don't go camping much or am in the forest much either but I would definitely watch my kids and wouldn't expect them to know what it is. I might try to educate myself and them before they go out in the woods if we did go camping, but still, it wouldn't be their fault. They're little kids.

I don't know what happened to poor Hannie, but she looks like she had a bad fall or was in a bad fight, poor kid.

[Mama Mia]

The thing about poison oak ( and I assume poison ivy is the same ) ...is that the oil can get tracked all over. If she is out playing in a field that doesn't have poison ivy, that doesn't mean that when she pets the cat the cat doesn't have it. Or that one of the older kids didn't pick it up when out working on the property and she got it from brushing against her brothers jacket. Or that they told her to stay out of x area, or look out for the leaves , and being a kid, she forgot. Or they used goats or otherwise exterminated but stray plants popped up in another area.

I have a kid who gets the extreme poison oak that requires shots every time. Absolute nightmare if you live in an area filled with the stuff. The last time she got it was from the head rest on a car. The stuff is evil and the oil can be active for 50 YEARS on items like lawn tools or sleeping bags.

[Miggy]

Wow, the things you learn on FJ. I just asked about the poison ivy because I wondered if there was a different explanation for her eye other than being injured in rough play. Now I have learnt that you can get it from cats, car head rests, lawn tools, etc. Active for 50 years? Impressive. The scientist part of me would love to have some of this oil to play with. (Along with gloves, lab coat and safety glasses of course!) Are there any positive uses for this oil?

Sorry for completely side tracking this snark.

[Mama Mia]

Wow, the things you learn on FJ. I just asked about the poison ivy because I wondered if there was a different explanation for her eye other than being injured in rough play. Now I have learnt that you can get it from cats, car head rests, lawn tools, etc. Active for 50 years? Impressive. The scientist part of me would love to have some of this oil to play with. (Along with gloves, lab coat and safety glasses of course!) Are there any positive uses for this oil?

Sorry for completely side tracking this snark.

If you're interested you should study it and try to come up with an immunization ! You would be a hero

[JenniferJuniper]

Poison ivy and poison oak reactions are similar. Michelle has said there is poison ivy on a portion of the property and some of her kids are very allergic and sometimes it gets tracked all over the place. My guess is Hannie got a very direct hit.

Here's the property:

http://www.satellite-sightseer.com/id/1 ... amily_Home

They don't live in the woods. They have money. A professional exterminator could eliminate any poison ivy shrubs and/or vines from the property where the kids play pretty easily. For payment, of course, and I suspect that's the issue with Jim Bob.

[Miggy]

If you're interested you should study it and try to come up with an immunization ! You would be a hero

My husband is a chemistry / pharmacy researcher at a university so its probably more up to him to do that. (He is the Chemistry version of Leonard Hofstadter! :lol: ) I will have to suggest it as his next research project. Need a good topic to try and win that Nobel Prize.

I was originally trained in Agricultural Science (although currently working as a musician), so I am more interested in finding positive uses for weed plants so that we can then farm them.

[Lillybee]

Poison ivy and poison oak reactions are similar. Michelle has said there is poison ivy on a portion of the property and some of her kids are very allergic and sometimes it gets tracked all over the place. My guess is Hannie got a very direct hit.

Here's the property:

http://www.satellite-sightseer.com/id/1 ... amily_Home

They don't live in the woods. They have money. A professional exterminator could eliminate any poison ivy shrubs and/or vines from the property where the kids play pretty easily. For payment, of course, and I suspect that's the issue with Jim Bob.

As would a few goats, when I raised my three in the country, we had goats who browsed on the poison oak and the kids drank their milk. Not one of my children ever had a reaction to poison oak. Goats were a win-win situation out there.

[miffy]

They could get fainting goats!

[BlondeAgent007]

Even when I was a summer camp counselor, I didn't know how to identify poison ivy 100%, or poison oak at all. I had the kids avoid any plants whatsoever that had similar leaf structures to poison ivy. We also always wore sneakers and jeans/pants when going through the woods.

[Trynn]

I'm 24, and no matter how often poison ivy is pointed out to me, for some odd reason, I can never actually remember what it looks like.

Not everyone is like that though.

[Buzzard]

Yes, kids get hurt and get into shit, that's just the nature of kids. I just wonder what's going on, considering we've now seen an eye patch and now additional facial injuries in a short period of time.

I'm wondering if that ATV is responsible.

[JenniferJuniper]

Yes, kids get hurt and get into shit, that's just the nature of kids. I just wonder what's going on, considering we've now seen an eye patch and now additional facial injuries in a short period of time.

I'm wondering if that ATV is responsible.

That was scary watching those boys haul that greenhouse frame and then wield power tools under the supervision of a 14 year old.

Given that Justin only wore the patch for a short time, it was almost certainly an injury and not lazy eye treatment.

Whatever happened to Hannie, it's not pretty.

I don't think we know the half of the pain and suffering that goes on in that unregulated foster home.

[PennySycamore]

As would a few goats, when I raised my three in the country, we had goats who browsed on the poison oak and the kids drank

their milk. Not one of my children ever had a reaction to poison oak. Goats were a win-win situation out there.

Lillybee, it's funny that you should mention your goats browsing on poison ivy. I read in Euell Gibbon's classic book Stalking the Wild Asparagus many years ago about how lumberjacks in the Pacific Northwest swore that eating the first shoots of poison ivy in the spring would give them immunity to poison ivy. Euell went on to say that he had heard of this practice, not only among Pacific NW lumberjacks, but among Native Amercans as well. He even knew of one family that tried it. The husband, wife and five kids did it yearly. They would chew and swallow a first tiny shoot and keep up this practice for 3 weeks so the dosage increased as the leaves grew. None of the family ever had a problem with eating the poison ivy shoots nor any problem with contact with the poison ivy on their property even though there was plenty. Euell tried this himself and it seemed to work for him. He did mention that you could get poison ivy extracts to use instead of eating the leaves. Lastly, he mentioned about goats eating the leaves. He thought that drinking their milk was the best treatment of all.

ZRfRITVdz4k

[Mama Mia]

I've heard that drinking the milk of goats that eat poison oak can help you build up an immunity.

The problem with all of the folklore is that about 15-20% of people are just naturally immune, so it's hard to tell if the remedy is working, or if you're just naturally immune.

My child who gets it the worst never got it at all, despite living and playing in an extremely endemic area , until she was scratched deeply by a branch of it, now it is HORRIBLE every time she gets exposed, to even the tiniest amount left on an article of clothing, door handle, pet, etc.

I would imagine with 19 kids, a dozen of them still young, they have a large amount of scrapes/poison oak/pink eye/falling off bikes etc etc . - they probably also fight with each other, but they won't admit that.

[PennySycamore]

Euell Gibbons, whom I referred to above, would always get a few patches of poison ivy every year as he was out foraging for food plants. Eating poison ivy shoots did seem to stop it, though. It is basically following the same principal, IIRC, as allergy shots do.

[gustava]

She looks as if she had the shit beat out of her. I'd like to see photos of the rest of her body (not prurient) because I'd bet she has bruises elsewhere.

Folks, this isn't poison ivy.

[JenniferJuniper]

She looks as if she had the shit beat out of her. I'd like to see photos of the rest of her body (not prurient) because I'd bet she has bruises elsewhere.

Folks, this isn't poison ivy.

I don't think the Duggars would ever allow Hannie to be photographed or filmed if she'd been beaten. They're crazy, but not that stupid.

[Mama Mia]

She looks as if she had the shit beat out of her. I'd like to see photos of the rest of her body (not prurient) because I'd bet she has bruises elsewhere.

Folks, this isn't poison ivy.

Have you ever seen a kid with severe poison ivy/oak on their face ? Cause it looks exactly like that.

Of course it could be any number of things ... but it seems pretty irresponsible to be accusing people of beating the hell of their kid just based on photos of an active 7 year old who could have fallen off a bike, has poison oak, face planted while skating etc.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I don't think the Duggars would ever allow Hannie to be photographed or filmed if she'd been beaten. They're crazy, but not that stupid.

I agree, they're not that stupid, especially since this particular child is very articulate and would probably tell.

[Mela99]

It sounds awful, but I think they're smart enough to leave bruises only where they can be covered up

[Maia68]

As a child welfare intake worker, I take child abuse reports almost daily. I also personally have had severe reactions to poison ivy, including the time when I was a child and my sister and I decided to use what turned out to be poison ivy leaves as pretend powder puffs on our faces. There are no itchy red welts on Hannie's face. She looks exactly like a child abuse victim. It is possible that some sort of accident caused the bruising and swelling. However, the fact that she is verbal really is not helpful because she does not go to school or anywhere that she can talk to someone out of earshot of her family members. Even the film crew could be seen to be on her parents' sides because their livelihoods depend on filming this family. It is always difficult to investigate allegations regarding a child who does not go to school, because even if you interview the children with the parent out of the room, they are generally just outside and that does not give children a sense of security if the parent is the abuser.

Edited to fix typos.