Baby burkas - Saudi Father Kills Daughter - Merged

[Burris]

This is a regime which is supposed to be an ally of the American government. Any chance of talking about something other than oil for a moment and maybe saying "ya know, letting fathers kill their kids and wives really isn't a good thing."

I know there was a whole fracking debate, but this is something else to consider - more domestic energy means less pressure to suck up to this woman-hating regime and less oil revenues lining their pockets and preventing any need for them to reform.

I think the chance of the US government severing ties with Saudi Arabia over something as prosaic as endemic human rights abuse (and gendercide) approaches zero. I mean, my goodness; the US has Iran to worry about. :roll:

..and you know, the left sucks just as hard for this...

OIL! Nom nom nom nom nom.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I think the chance of the US government severing ties with Saudi Arabia over something as prosaic as endemic human rights abuse (and gendercide) approaches zero. I mean, my goodness; the US has Iran to worry about. :roll:

..and you know, the left sucks just as hard for this...

OIL! Nom nom nom nom nom.

I know - that was my naive hope, not a realistic expectation.

At some point, though, it would be nice if someone in the State Department would realize that you can't neatly separate out another country's foreign and domestic policies.

The Saudi regime can act pro-American and have a westernized elite because it has bought off the militant clerics, giving them funding and the power to enact crazy laws like this.

When the US supports other pro-Western dictators and doesn't push for democracy or civil rights, the people tend to become anti-American.

Tell me again how well the "appease the dictators" policy worked with 9/11 and the Arab Spring?

[fakepigtails73]

:?

Here's the entire trainwreck if anyone feels like reading it. http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/3 ... z2JwH9Rk7i

EDIT because I tried to link it and failed. :(

A burka?? For little girls??

Burkas are abhorrent. :evil:

[Mice]

:?

Here's the entire trainwreck if anyone feels like reading it. http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/3 ... z2JwH9Rk7i

EDIT because I tried to link it and failed. :(

What a wicked good idea! Because no one who wears a burka is ever molested! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Chicken bones]

It is damn frightening what a person can do to another person once they're stripped of any humanity.

I hope the girl is in a far better place and is healed in body and mind.

No, he didn't see her as human, but good god, I would be appalled if someone treated a dog or even a mouse this brutally! I worry for the other children in the home.

[Burris]

Tell me again how well the "appease the dictators" policy worked with 9/11 and the Arab Spring?

Hahaha!

Well you know the answer, but here's part of it for those who don't.

[Alice_Fraggle]

That's it, I am getting off the internet now. Gonna curl up with my cats and pretend I didn't read that.

What the WHAT?! In the words of the great Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth - "I don't want to live on this planet anymore!" 288 times? What the FUCK is wrong with that man?! :confusion-helpsos:

These poor, poor children! A baby should NOT be hidden behind a veil. (I won't get started on my thoughts about GROWN WOMEN having to wear burkas, but BABIES?! They should be allowed to see and be seen, to explore their world, and to SEE. My goodness!)

[YPestis]

At some point, though, it would be nice if someone in the State Department would realize that you can't neatly separate out another country's foreign and domestic policies.

The Saudi regime can act pro-American and have a westernized elite because it has bought off the militant clerics, giving them funding and the power to enact crazy laws like this.

When the US supports other pro-Western dictators and doesn't push for democracy or civil rights, the people tend to become anti-American.

Tell me again how well the "appease the dictators" policy worked with 9/11 and the Arab Spring?

I think there's always a delicate balance between trying to encourage democratic reforms and working with a dictatorship. As far as national policies go, we can't afford to only work with countries that share our values. Most of the world is, sadly, undemocratic. I think we take a blind eye towards Saudi Arabia despite their very egregious treatment of women and nonMuslims because we depend on their support in a very volatile region of the world. As you stated, the Saudi monarchy keeps their power because they struck a bargain with the hardliners to allow them free reign on domestic policies in exchange for their support. For a country with such poor human rights records, we would normally not allow such free association with them, but pragmatic concerns overshadows human rights. Presidents take more hits with the price of oil than with how the Saudis treat their women. Therefore, the president will mouth platitudes about supporting social changes in Saudi Arabia. As a result, much of the middle east have a negative view of the US because of our open support for their dictators.

OTOH, too much limits on our dealings with dictatorships translates to reduced leverage. North Korea has no diplomatic relations with the US and China is its only ally. As a result, China has far more influence in that country than the US.

It's a tricky thing to balance do diplomatic outreach to regions we find repugnant. We want enough diplomatic outreach to generate some influence, but not so much that we appear to support a horrible regime. I believe our government's cozy relationship with the Saudis shows the strategic importance of oil. If it wasn't for that, and the Saudis' support of the US in a volatile region, I think we would not treat the Saudis so kindly.

Anyway, the fact that Saudis have shown leniency after it generates international attention do indicate engaging with them have positive results. From what I know, Saudi Arabia is slowly changing. Stories of abuses have been more prevalent in the news due to a more open atmosphere. Just think, a generation ago, stories like these would never have made the papers. At least we have a country that's starting to acknowledge it's own problems. That's a start.