I'm really angry at Christianity right now

[O Latin]

I don't want to reveal too many details on the internet, but basically, I have two friends who both put on happy faces and shoved their problems under the rug and pretended that they had perfect, wonderful families for years and years until finally all their problems just exploded into one giant mess. It's certainly not the only factor, but I think the church is at least partially to blame for their need to pretend perfection rather than deal with reality. One friend works at the church, the other is apparently from one of the Big Families of the church. It makes me very sad, because these families could have avoided a lot of pain if they had been willing to just accept the fact that shit happens and deal with it. It also makes me angry to think that the church I love so much is even partially responsible for what these people are going through. Where does it say that God expects perfection?

FWIW, I think that their worries about how the church would perceive their various dysfunctions and problems are largely in their heads. It really is a very tolerant church and I don't think any reasonable person would be all that scandalized by what is going on, which, while unfortunate, is nothing that doesn't happen every day out in the real world.

All of this is making me...not question my faith, exactly, but more like I'm starting to see what people mean about Christianity (or religion in general) sometimes being damaging, and I'm not sure I want to be a part of that anymore.

[browncoatslytherin]

i'm in the same boat with ya, so i feel for ya. *hugs*

[xDreamerx]

Well, I think what you do with faith is up to you. It's about your interpretation and what's in your mind and heart, regardless of church. I think you can have faith without church or institutionalized religion. I don't think we should let religion poison faith and I don't think we should let Christianity and the Church poison Jesus.

But ultimately this is your decision, take some time and search though it. You could try reading and researching different beliefs and opinions and see where that takes you. Personally, I like Blake but that's just me. I hope you find what you are looking for (even if that's nothing).

[ladypuglover]

Well, I think what you do with faith is up to you. It's about your interpretation and what's in your mind and heart, regardless of church. I think you can have faith without church or institutionalized religion. I don't think we should let religion poison faith and I don't think we should let Christianity and the Church poison Jesus.

But ultimately this is your decision, take some time and search though it. You could try reading and researching different beliefs and opinions and see where that takes you. Personally, I like Blake but that's just me. I hope you find what you are looking for (even if that's nothing).

I agree with xDreamerx but I want to lift you up with good thoughts and love that you find what is right and good for you.

[Cran]

I'm very sorry for your friends and you, Latin!

Unfortunately, many christian community these days seem to take their example fom the Pharisees, and not Christ. :|

[apple1]

I just want to say-

Try to recognize and avoid black and white, all or nothing thinking either way, for or against.

I think you will be much happier with your decisions in the long run if you do this.

Good thoughts coming your way.

[loveandwar]

Jesus doesn't expect or want perfection. He wants us to come as we are. Unfortunately, many people still think that you have to be "perfect" if you're a Christian. Crap happens to everyone in life. That's one of the reasons I'm at my current church. They understand that crap happens to everyone, even Christians and "good church people", and the key is how you handle it. I have been in churches where people act like that, O Latin, so I completely understand what you're feeling.

Hugs to you!

[VVV]

If I erroneously think my mother demands perfection at all times when in fact she is tolerant of human weakness and mistakes, and I allow this misapprehension of mine to guide some bad decision-making, who is responsible for my bad decisions? Me? or my mother?

If in fact my mother is intolerant of imperfection and I extrapolate from this to conclude that all mothers are rigidly intolerant, am I right or wrong to do so?

Not a very exact analogy, but I think you can see what I mean. I also think that blaming an institution for bad choices, either your own or those of your friends, can be a way of not owning your own decisions or of excusing those of your friends.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

If I erroneously think my mother demands perfection at all times when in fact she is tolerant of human weakness and mistakes, and I allow this misapprehension of mine to guide some bad decision-making, who is responsible for my bad decisions? Me? or my mother?

If in fact my mother is intolerant of imperfection and I extrapolate from this to conclude that all mothers are rigidly intolerant, am I right or wrong to do so?

Not a very exact analogy, but I think you can see what I mean. I also think that blaming an institution for bad choices, either your own or those of your friends, can be a way of not owning your own decisions or of excusing those of your friends.

So basically, O Latin, you're doing it wrong... :roll:

[jesslynn10]

vvv,

If my Mother were wonderful, I would KNOW it. I wouldn't perceive her to be intolerant. Because, as her child, I would know her by her love and her actions and her heart. So bleh on that analogy.

Latin, I feel you. I've been there. Hugs.

[jesslynn10]

So basically, O Latin, you're doing it wrong... :roll:

THIS

[latraviata]

If I erroneously think my mother demands perfection at all times when in fact she is tolerant of human weakness and mistakes, and I allow this misapprehension of mine to guide some bad decision-making, who is responsible for my bad decisions? Me? or my mother?

If in fact my mother is intolerant of imperfection and I extrapolate from this to conclude that all mothers are rigidly intolerant, am I right or wrong to do so?

Not a very exact analogy, but I think you can see what I mean. I also think that blaming an institution for bad choices, either your own or those of your friends, can be a way of not owning your own decisions or of excusing those of your friends.

In my profession they call this 'paroquet' psychology.

[msHailey]

Please don't be angry at Christianity, be angry at the people who practice it wrong (Don't really be angry at them, they just misunderstand). The overall theme of the bible isn't "be perfect and you'll be a better Christian and therefore get to heaven." Christianity is one of the few religions thats main point is that there is NOTHING you can do to be perfect. It is all about God and what he has done for you. It breaks my heart when Christians feel they have to pretend to be perfect. One of the things I love most about being a Christian is knowing that I can take all my imperfections and lay them before God, that I never have to hide anything because its all about Him perfecting me and me being perfect in Him, not me trying to perfect myself. I live my life striving to do the right thing because I want to please God, not because I think it will make me "perfect enough" for God.

[GoJiRa]

Religion by itself is fine. Its organized religion I have a problem with.

[nutella addict]

Honestly I get frustrated too, but really bad stuff happens to everyone, and I stick to the churches that know and accept that fact and instead support people when they need it and never demand perfection. Jesus forgave prostitutes and ate with tax-collectors and sinners, and if the church was following Jesus their arms would be open and forgiving, rather than cruel and judgmental. As such, nobody needs to hide behind a mask of perfection. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" to me means nobody's perfect and you can hardly expect it. There are good churches and good Christians who preach Jesus' love and forgiveness over all else, and try to live their life in a way that helps others. I realize that there are so so many more who act like the Pharisees, and they can be incredibly frustrating. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't use the example of what happened to your friends as representative of all churches out there. I hope that whatever you decide works for you, and I hope that your friends can also find somewhere where they don't feel the need to be perfect, and that they can work through all these issues, whatever they are.

Whenever I hear stuff like this, by the way, I remember that poem When I Say I am a Christian (Carol Wimmer), especially:

When I say, “I am a Christianâ€

I’m not claiming to be perfect

My flaws are far too visible

but God believes I’m worth it

[Lainey]

In my profession they call this 'paroquet' psychology.

What does this mean? I tried looking it up and just got a bunch of stuff about parakeets.

[latraviata]

What does this mean? I tried looking it up and just got a bunch of stuff about parakeets.

It is jargon for misplaced 'amateur psychology'

But you know a lot about parakeets now and knowledge is power........ ;)

[Rosa]

O Latin, I'm not a Christian and I don't have any investment in your faith or lack of faith. You're being a good friend and I'm sure your friends need that right now.

Also, if you want to feel better about imperfection & Christianity, I recommend Anne Lamott's books on her faith - I know we quote her "If God hates everyone you hate" thing around here a lot, but she's just awesome in general and found a church community that really embraces her. Her books on faith are Plan B, Traveling Mercies, and Grace (Eventually).

[msHailey]

youtube Natalie Grant Perfect People

[Wolfie]

How is saying "all Christianity is bad," any different than saying that "all Muslims are bad?" Look at it as being annoyed with the whole situation, not blasting all churches that may or may not have had a role in your friend's interpretations of things.

I think trying to hide weaknesses hides in all faiths and in those with no faith too. It's a defense mechanism, "if somebody thinks I'm weak, they'll take advantage of it." You even see it in animals.

[mnb357]

I understand...I think. God reminds me of my imperfections. But, like most people, I don't want to be reminded of them. But, He understands I'm imperfect, He made me that way. He just asks that I love Him, and in doing so, hopefully, I become more like Him. Unfortunately, churches are run by people, who are as imperfect as I am, and don't want to be reminded of it. It's almost a "If you go here, you are perfect, got it?" Hence the facade and repression. You have every right to be pissed, and in MY view, God understands. To HIM no secrets are kept, all hearts an open book. He can handle your anger. I have a friend who is in what I would call "recovery" from an unhealthy church...her family went through sort of the same thing your friend's did. It's painful, isn't it? ::HUGS::

[Alecto]

This topic always makes me think of the Mississippi Squirrel Revival.

Unobserved to the other side of the room

All the way down to the amen pew where sat Sister Bertha better-than-you

Who'd been watchin' all the commotion with sadistic glee

But you should've seen the look in her eyes

When that squirrel jumped her garters and crossed her thighs

She jumped to her feet and said "Lord have mercy on me"

As the squirrel made laps inside her dress

She began to cry and then to confess to sins that would make a sailor blush with shame

She told of gossip and church dissension but the thing that got the most attention

Was when she talked about her love life and then she started naming names

K16fG1sDagU

Every church seems to have this problem, but at the same time, I've seen this problem in other social groups. I think no one wants to admit they have problems. I am like that, to a large degree.

[Lainey]

Alecto wins 5 billion internets! :clap:

[nutella addict]

Alecto, I blame you for the fact I've just watched/listened to that more times than I'd like to admit to....

...and thank you, because it made me laugh :D

[loveandwar]

Please don't be angry at Christianity, be angry at the people who practice it wrong (Don't really be angry at them, they just misunderstand). The overall theme of the bible isn't "be perfect and you'll be a better Christian and therefore get to heaven." Christianity is one of the few religions thats main point is that there is NOTHING you can do to be perfect. It is all about God and what he has done for you. It breaks my heart when Christians feel they have to pretend to be perfect. One of the things I love most about being a Christian is knowing that I can take all my imperfections and lay them before God, that I never have to hide anything because its all about Him perfecting me and me being perfect in Him, not me trying to perfect myself. I live my life striving to do the right thing because I want to please God, not because I think it will make me "perfect enough" for God.

This!!