I'm really angry at Christianity right now

[Austin]

I guess it's more the way some people use and interpret scripture. I understand what you mean about, in the scheme of things, 40 years not being a particularly long time. But those who take the Bible literally (and not just the kinds of fundies we discuss - but many Christians across the board) believe that every single spoken word that is attributed to Jesus is what he actually said, and it just doesn't make sense to me that Mark or anybody else could have known that. And the beliefs that spring from this level of acceptance of specific words and sentences as "gospel" (pardon the pun) are often very contentious and problematic. A lot of doctrinal differences are based on whether one or two words in something Jesus actually said in any particular situation. It seems that whole belief systems are based on a sentence here and there that different gospel authors claim he spoke and I find that a bit disturbing, I guess.

I don't particuarly doubt the existence of the historical Jesus and I believe in the strength of oral tradition, so it does not seem strange that the gist of the parables that Jesus told and his message could have been retained very well over 40 years. The gospels do contradict each other in a number of ways, though, so at the least, it just goes to show that people remember things very differently.

The fundie-lite faith that I was raised with was that these are not appropriate questions and we are just to believe that the Bible is literally true in every word because it was inspired by God. (All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. . . II Timothy 3:16). There are a number of problems I have with this these days, one of which is that every time literalists are presented with historical facts that contradict scripture in any way, they just say, "Well, God can do whatever he wants, so if the Bible says God supernaturally "breathed" every word of scripture into all these different authors, then that's the end of it."

It doesn't matter that Jonah/fish, Noah's ark, and all the other fantastical stories were not possible and to me, seem to be like believing in the tooth fairy. Also, many of the Jewish/Christian accounts such as these are clearly derivatives of older religions and are reflected in some way, shape, or form in many religions.

I don't know - I just continue to ponder all of this. I don't know that I'll ever come to any clear conclusions, as I've been seriously mulling all of this over for about five years and I don't feel any closer to answers. But I'm content to keep doing that, I guess. I find it very interesting.

[Alecto]

What is a sword drill?

In my childhood, it was something different than everyone else described. In elementary school, I was hard core involved with Bible Drill. Pretty much you used a standardized Bible (drill Bibles were hardcover with no extras) and practiced finding books of the Bible. The caller would give the book, and you'd have to find it. The first person to step forward was recognized, and they had to say the book before it and after it as well.

There were also verse competitions, where you'd either have to repeat the verse after given the reference (aka book and verse) and had to recite the verse, or they would read the verse and you'd have to give the reference.

As a fundie-lite kid, let's just say that girls always mopped the floors in these competitions. (Which were co-ed) If I remember correctly, the drill was split into Junior and Senior (4-6 grades and 7-9 grades) We would have associational contests (for non-Baptists, associations are groups of 15-20 churches in a region), and the winner of that got to go to the state competition in Little Rock. I think I went to state once? Didn't win, I know that.

[browngrl]

Thanks for the answers regarding sword drills.

[nutella addict]

You put that into words so nicely Austin! I agree with you about the literalists. Although I do think that the Bible is "God-breathed" I definitely take all of it with a very large amount of historical perspective, and I do wish the fundies would do that do. Where I grew up that was the norm even in the denominations which were more conservative (and my church is LCMS!). We were also always encouraged to examine it and form our own opinions. I guess I figure if Jesus can speak in parables, what makes anyone thing other parts of the Bible can't be similarly symbolic? Maybe the flood Noah experienced was a flood of the whole world *as Noah knew it*. Which way back then was surely not very far in any direction. Maybe (and I believe this IS the case, I love anthropology/paleontology/history/etc) the 7 days in Genesis refers to God's time and not our time, which is described as different in other parts of the Bible. Just to give you an idea of how I see these stories with a more critical/historical/open eye, if that makes sense.

[Cerulean Blue]

O Latin, I'm not sure we've adequately addressed your concerns here. You sound very distressed, and I'm so sorry this situation has cropped up for your friends and lead to so much pain and frustration for you. Could you give any more specifics? I find that adopting a perfectionistic veneer is a common avoidance mechanism people use in most any type of social group, from churches to country clubs. Yet you seem to very specifically associate this situation with your church. If you could say why you feel that this is unique to your religious setting, maybe we could speak to your situation more specifically. Hang in there!

[demgirl]

O -- I think you should take what I say with a grain of salt b/c I'm sort of a "storm the battalions" kind of gal -- my family law professor used to tell me that I have an "overdeveloped sense of justice" -- but FWIW, this is my take. Some of the issues with your friends probably came from their own insecurities or need to feel that they were perfect, but my guess is that there was some at least latent external pressure from the Church -- that's my guess b/c it sounds like that is what you believe. I think in this type of circumstance, there are two choices. 1. Continue to go to your church, but be aware of the elements of the community that would seek to degrade rather than uplift you. 2. Find a new church or some other form of worship if you feel that you can no longer support that church. I would go with #2, but that's just ME -- I cannot tell you what would be best for you, of course.

I think it's important that you separate your faith from your church. Church is a place that you go to find a community of faith, but (at least for me) I don't think it's essential to having faith. I used to think Christianity was evil, mostly because of how I was raised. How could anyone support something that caused so much violence, suffering and harm in the world? As I got older, I had to learn to separate the faith from the actions. People can prevert anything for their own means, be it religion, history, facts, etc.

I don't know if that helped at all, but I certainly wish you the best in finding your path.