Poor Sarah Maxwell lacks gratefulness -MERGED

[mausi]

So yeah, feel free to go wherever you want to but your "accountability/safety" chaperone will be sure to tattle on you should you step out of line. Some freedom :roll: Steve's probably only sorry that the Thought Police don't exist (yet) in real life, because you know he'd be right on it. Fucker.

No need for the Thought Police when you've trained your offspring to share with you their every thought.

[bettertomarry]

Whenever someone like Steve says he has his child's heart, I can't help thinking "yeah, and you might as well have it in a jar full of formaldehyde."

:(

Reading all of the posts about Sarah is making me think of the book and film "Now, Voyager."

Thoughtful, you and I are clearly on the same wave-length! Next we can start comparing the swim-suits in Cheaper by the Dozen to modest swimwear.

Edited to fix formatting.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

MJB, if I could have liked your post 100 times I would have. This is why we will never see any Maxwell escape. This is how they make their living.

Yeah. I think the one hope, if any, would be if they don't have any courtships soon, particularly of one of the GIRLS, maybe that will start impacting the "brand" negatively and Steve-O will start releasing his grip somewhat (though probably that's too late for Sarah, we'd be talking about Anna or Mary).

Speaking of which, how is the Botkin brand doing? They've got the same problem, advertising a certain lifestyle for daughters and then ending up with (by fundie standards) old maids.

I think the Maxwells have made an idol of "sheltering," and now they don't know how to ease up on it now that all the kids are old. If they were a sitcom it'd be long past time for Cousin Oliver to make an appearance, though I suppose the grandchildren might be used to take up some of the slack.

[Marian the Librarian]

Yeah. I think the one hope, if any, would be if they don't have any courtships soon, particularly of one of the GIRLS, maybe that will start impacting the "brand" negatively and Steve-O will start releasing his grip somewhat (though probably that's too late for Sarah, we'd be talking about Anna or Mary).

Speaking of which, how is the Botkin brand doing? They've got the same problem, advertising a certain lifestyle for daughters and then ending up with (by fundie standards) old maids.

I think the Maxwells have made an idol of "sheltering," and now they don't know how to ease up on it now that all the kids are old. If they were a sitcom it'd be long past time for Cousin Oliver to make an appearance, though I suppose the grandchildren might be used to take up some of the slack.

Re: MJB's post - spot on. Control-freak fundie parents who won't let go, and make money by branding and pimping out their "children" (who in many cases are well into adulthood) - that's my hottest-of-hot-button issues here on FJ.

Re: the Botkins. Things aren't going so well in rural Tennessee, at least in the courtship department. Anna Sofia is 27.5, Elizabeth is a couple of years younger. And whither mysterious, misunderstood Isaac, the eldest of the bunch, and most likely well past 30? Is he really so enamored of prolonged celibacy, and movie-making? And where ARE all those earth-shatteringly wonderful, culture-transforming, Hollywood-besting films, anyway?

Finally, I give my personal "like" of the week to whoever equated the phrase "having our children's hearts" to the image of cardiac muscle pickled in formaldehyde. Think about it, Steve. :angry-cussing:

[thoughtful]

Thoughtful, you and I are clearly on the same wave-length! Next we can start comparing the swim-suits in Cheaper by the Dozen to modest swimwear.

:lol:

You and I (and perhaps PennySycamore and a few others) could probably spend a chunk of time in Quiver Full of Wordly Distractions, live-blogging whatever is on Turner Classic Movies, on any given day!

[holierthanyou]

Glad to see lady gaga's lyrics got approved.

Yes, I am immature.

[Loveday]

:lol:

You and I (and perhaps PennySycamore and a few others) could probably spend a chunk of time in Quiver Full of Wordly Distractions, live-blogging whatever is on Turner Classic Movies, on any given day!

*waves hand wildly* Me too, me too! Except I no longer get TCM, dammit. But I do own Now, Voyager and many other films they show on TCM, so I could just pop them in at the appropriate time and join in the live-blog. :lol:

I never made the connection between Sarah and Charlotte, but OMG. :shock: Sarah's in dire need of her own Dr Jaquith, which Stevus will never allow. :(

[thoughtful]

*waves hand wildly* Me too, me too! Except I no longer get TCM, dammit. But I do own Now, Voyager and many other films they show on TCM, so I could just pop them in at the appropriate time and join in the live-blog. :lol:

I never made the connection between Sarah and Charlotte, but OMG. :shock: Sarah's in dire need of her own Dr Jaquith, which Stevus will never allow. :(

Really.

Can you imagine all of that schmaltzy Max Steiner music suddenly sounding through the air at Maxhell? :lol:

[Loveday]

Really.

Can you imagine all of that schmaltzy Max Steiner music suddenly sounding through the air at Maxhell? :lol:

I've been humming the Now, Voyager theme all evening. :lol: (and imagining Paul Henreid lighting a couple of cigarettes, one for him and one for me, and I don't even smoke!)

Edited because i does not come before e in Henreid's name.

[darkplumaged]

I'm trying to figure out the "accountability" part. What do they think Sarah would do if she went out alone?

Buy a box of animal crackers and eat them all?

Flip through a novel or book on Buddhism at Barnes and Noble?

Smile at an attractive man?

Try on a pair of pants?

Listen to pop music in the car?

Seriously--what is an extremely sheltered fundamentalist woman who has never really rebelled in all her 31 years likely to do if given a few hours to herself? Maybe they're afraid she'd just keep driving.

[snarkyjan]

I'm trying to figure out the "accountability" part. What do they think Sarah would do if she went out alone?

Buy a box of animal crackers and eat them all?

Flip through a novel or book on Buddhism at Barnes and Noble?

Smile at an attractive man?

Try on a pair of pants?

Listen to pop music in the car?

Seriously--what is an extremely sheltered fundamentalist woman who has never really rebelled in all her 31 years likely to do if given a few hours to herself? Maybe they're afraid she'd just keep driving.

Steve being what he is, he probably keeps all the car keys locked up, so that Sarah can't sneak out of bed in the dead of night and take off.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I'm trying to figure out the "accountability" part. What do they think Sarah would do if she went out alone?

Buy a box of animal crackers and eat them all?

Flip through a novel or book on Buddhism at Barnes and Noble?

Smile at an attractive man?

Try on a pair of pants?

Listen to pop music in the car?

Seriously--what is an extremely sheltered fundamentalist woman who has never really rebelled in all her 31 years likely to do if given a few hours to herself? Maybe they're afraid she'd just keep driving.

Sarah was in her early 20s when she wrote that essay. But I doubt her life has changed since then. If anything, her world is probably smaller.

[darkplumaged]

Steve being what he is, he probably keeps all the car keys locked up, so that Sarah can't sneak out of bed in the dead of night and take off.

Probably. He probably also makes them put their phones in a container that he keeps in his and Teri's room so that they can't use them after lights-out.

I feel sorry for anyone who has never had the pleasure of rolling down a quiet road, alone, on a beautiful day. I do some of my best thinking when I'm alone in the car. But Steve-o doesn't want any of his kids to be alone with their thoughts, ever, unless those thoughts pertain to the next Moody book.

[Vex]

Apparently 'having your child's heart' actually means 'holding your child hostage spiritually, emotionally and physically'.

Steve is a sick, selfish man. He can't stand not being the only influence in his family's life so he bans anything that threatens his authority. That means sports, friends, even pepsi because they might decide they want to drink a pepsi more than they want to listen to Steve.

I think Steve has some of the hallmarks of NPD, or maybe BPD. I'm certain he has a personality disorder of some kind because it is not healthy or normal to see the world in absolutes the way he does, where he is the center of the universe.

[GatoRojo]

That's wierd -- there were 3 replies, now there are just 2. The third one was not at all critical, as I remember, because I was about to post a snarky comment...

I know I'm a bit behind here, but that third comment was mine! (Incidentally, former lurker, but I missed you guys so much when everything imploded!) I think I posted something about being grateful for how much I enjoyed life, and how I was happy to find God, and that I was thinking of them. I signed it with my blog id rather than my actual name, and I suspect that's why it was taken down...on my blog I wrote about *gasp* there being a place for science in religion. And how I'm applying to medical school :o

[nokidsmom]

Apparently 'having your child's heart' actually means 'holding your child hostage spiritually, emotionally and physically'.

Steve is a sick, selfish man. He can't stand not being the only influence in his family's life so he bans anything that threatens his authority. That means sports, friends, even pepsi because they might decide they want to drink a pepsi more than they want to listen to Steve.

I think Steve has some of the hallmarks of NPD, or maybe BPD. I'm certain he has a personality disorder of some kind because it is not healthy or normal to see the world in absolutes the way he does, where he is the center of the universe.

I agree that there is/are some very serious psychological problem(s) here. Steve doesn't need God or Jesus, he needs to find a good psychiatrist. Something went very, very wrong back when he was "brought home" or whatever the phrase was for leaving his engineering job. And unfortunately, his family will need some help too, now they have been led down the rabbit hole with him.

[MamaJunebug]

If NPD = Narcissistic Personality Disorder, then yeah, there have been some signs. Possibly OCD too, though I'm certainly no psychologist:

Remember the first person to infiltrate a Maxhell conference told how everything stopped cold, twice, when something went wrong during a presentation Steve was invovled in.

The first was when Steve, delivering his little speech, walked to where he was to find a Bible and pick it up. But the prop - er, Bible - wasn't there. He froze. He could not ad lib for the life of him. Teri looked aghast, Sarah appeared at a doorway in back of the meeting room, alert and questioning and nodding and dashing off to look for the missing book.

Steve and Teri hemmed and hawed until one of the J-boys strode on from stage left, Bible held aloft, big grin on his face. Smattering of applause, Steve visibly recovered from his panic and the spiel went on.

Everything revolved around Steve and his spiel and the missing holy book. Maybe narcissistic, maybe obsessive, maybe just really unimaginative when faced with a glitch.

The second incident reported was when Teri mis-read a Scripture verse, which IIRC the account is one about "Be not lovers of pleasure...." and Teri simply forgot to read the word "not." Steve froze, Teri froze .... for all the smoothness of their deliveries when things are going right, when one little bitty itsy bitsy teensy weensy thing goes wrong, ooh, they *lose* it.

Teri hunched her shoulders, giggled, looked at Steve with extreme sheepishness and more-or-less waited for him to re-set that there had been a misreading and that the show could go on.

Dunno about the world, but it sounds as if every presentation certainly and surely revolves around Steve.

[YPestis]

I can't say what psychological issue Steve has but at the very least, he have some type of control and trust issue. Based on his writing, he has enveloped everyone into a "family" cult where everything is based on keeping family together at the expense of any outside activities and contacts.

I remember his earlier book, "Preparing Sons" where he cautiously tap danced around the college question, noting that college isn't for everyone but it's ok if people want to go. The earlier Corners also mention they don't allow kids to socialize alone until at least early teens. However, there was definite change by the time "Keeping Children's Hearts" came out where he took "sheltering" to a whole weird level. There, Sarah talks about how wonderful her younger siblings have never hung out with neighborhood friends and Steve talks about how kids don't need friends.....well, I realized something wasn't right with the Maxwells. Steve's talk about getting rid of all outside hobbies and activities and adult friends just reeks of cultish behavior.

I feel that as fundies realize the weirdness of the Maxwells, many will avoid letting their daughters into that family. Any that does will likely resist some of Steve's weirder ideas like not allowing kids to have non-related friends or only attending a family church in the nursing home. Sure, there may be some girls willing to degrade themselves to their husbands, but most fundie girls are still willing to draw the line. Steve's power over everyone is psychological, so he can't legally force his daughter-in-laws to do anything. I foresee someone escaping from the cult with the grandkiddies if his remaining sons ever get married. Maybe one of them will take Sarah.....

[snarkyjan]

Does Steve remind anyone else of Harrison Ford's character in "The Mosquito Coast"? The only difference to me is that Steve's influence has been even more malignant, since has been of longer duration.

[Justme]

I just don't see many more of the Maxwell "kids" marrying. I can't see Stevie letting go of any of his girls. Like the PP said, I don't think a lot of fundie females will want to come into this family. Mel married before they plunged to far over the cliff. Anna's family is similar to Stevies. I could see 1 or 2 "kids" marrying, but not any more.

[Black Aliss]

Does Steve remind anyone else of Harrison Ford's character in "The Mosquito Coast"? The only difference to me is that Steve's influence has been even more malignant, since has been of longer duration.

That's exactly who Steve has always reminded me of. Of whom Steve has always reminded me. Or whatever.

What's weird is that I've met more than a handful of Boeing engineers over the years, and to a man (they were all men) they seemed totally pleasant until you got to know the families and you realized what total control freaks they were. They weren't Christianists, any of them, but if they had been, they could easily have gone off the Steve end.

[Melissa19128]

I agree that there is/are some very serious psychological problem(s) here. Steve doesn't need God or Jesus, he needs to find a good psychiatrist. Something went very, very wrong back when he was "brought home" or whatever the phrase was for leaving his engineering job. And unfortunately, his family will need some help too, now they have been led down the rabbit hole with him.

Does anyone mind giving me the cliff notes of Steve leaving his job? I know there was some sort of settlement but why was he awarded that? Ty!

[tehfanglyfish]

Haven't read through all replies yet, but I did want to jump in for just a second to defend the honor of spiders everywhere who ask that you please stop comparing them to Steve. It's true that they do have a unique way of feeding but they serve an important role in ecosystems, helping to keep the insect population in check. The spiders argue that controlling and manipulative fathers who stunt their children's development and keep them as perpetual children provide no such service to their fellow lifeforms and ask that you not equate them with such individuals.

[Katiebug]

Does anyone mind giving me the cliff notes of Steve leaving his job? I know there was some sort of settlement but why was he awarded that? Ty!

There have been ideas over the years but I don't think anything has ever been confirmed. We do know (based on Steve's own writings) that he had issues with his management at Boeing, mainly related to having to work with/for women and also a situation with a female supplier rep with whom he openly refused a working lunch on the basis of it being close to cheating on his wife. My theory is that his managers got tired of his anti-woman attitude but couldn't can him for fear of a lawsuit over his religious convictions, so they found a spot for him in some kind of voluntary separation package which he was strongly encouraged to take.

[YPestis]

Does anyone mind giving me the cliff notes of Steve leaving his job? I know there was some sort of settlement but why was he awarded that? Ty!

The Maxwells only explained it in vague terms. The company wanted Steve to do something and he refused. I don't believe it was illegal, but it went against Steve's morals. I don't remember he was awarded a "settlement" because they did not go to court over this. He said the company offered him a payout when they let him go. This severance pay helped him start up his own consulting business (we-communicate.com). In the last 3-5 years, he transitioned out of the home business and now says he does fulltime ministry. I suspect the titus2 business was so doing well that he was making more money with that.