Duggar daughters

[Visionoyahweh]

The boys also have it awkward. No masturbation? No real explanation about erections? There WILL be nocturnal emissions. They're biologically unavoidable. Which leads to guilt, which leads to shame, which leads to misogyny, which leads to creepy fundamentalism.

Not to mention the only females there exposed to are family...which will lead to some BIZARRE and wrong fantasies/dreams.

My hat is off to Joy though, for not keepin' sweet.

[xDreamerx]

The boys also have it awkward. No masturbation? No real explanation about erections? There WILL be nocturnal emissions. They're biologically unavoidable. Which leads to guilt, which leads to shame, which leads to misogyny, which leads to creepy fundamentalism.

Not to mention the only females there exposed to are family...which will lead to some BIZARRE and wrong fantasies/dreams.

My hat is off to Joy though, for not keepin' sweet.

Yeah, all true. I wonder what the fundie approach to boys is? I'd be curious to know. I mean does their father take them out and explain it to them or do they just ignore it?

[mstee]

Okay this is really off topic and really dumb but I've always wondered what women do about their periods if they're in the army. What if they have to go on a 12 hour mission with all guys? I mean I guess at that point modesty and privacy aren't that important....but I don't know I just always wondered.

And don't get me wrong- I'm not a crazy person like people we've seen saying women shouldn't be in the military. I just have too much time on my hands and think about random things like this haha. And it makes me think about how much I would never want to be in the military. (PMS in Iraq? Ugh. Props to the ladies out there)

[xDreamerx]

Okay this is really off topic and really dumb but I've always wondered what women do about their periods if they're in the army. What if they have to go on a 12 hour mission with all guys? I mean I guess at that point modesty and privacy aren't that important....but I don't know I just always wondered.

And don't get me wrong- I'm not a crazy person like people we've seen saying women shouldn't be in the military. I just have too much time on my hands and think about random things like this haha. And it makes me think about how much I would never want to be in the military. (PMS in Iraq? Ugh. Props to the ladies out there)

I would assume they would just use continuous birth control to stop it. (It's what I would do). I have known people who have gone to developing countries and done the same thing. Although in military operation, would this be possible? Do they have medicines that are considered not essential (meaning not something you would use to treat wounds, injuries etc).

[joe_mulcahy]

Interesting topic, I must say.

Even though I'm a man, I learned about menstruation very early (age six).

I've been curious about tampons and fundies, however. I don't know if I've read a discussion on this on the original Free Jinger at Yuku, but I seem to recall it being mentioned that often Fundie women aren't allowed to use tampons and must use sanitary towels instead? All I can think of is why? What's wrong with them (other than it being rather scary to put something inside you that way when you're already experiencing discomfort)?

[luckylibrarian]

Tampons are evil because fundie girls are supposed to have as little contact with that area as possible, and the only thing that is supposed to be up there anyway is the girl's husband. I don't know if they actually believe that tampons make them lose their virginity, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I've also wondered what women in combat do. I'm glad I'm not the only one!

Okay, since it has been mentioned...as the mother of an 11 year old boy, how do I bring up the subject of puberty and nocturnal...stuff? And when? How do I do it in a way that isn't embarrassing for him or me? My husband is zero help thanks to years of living with dysfunctional parents, so I suspect it's up to me. Clibbyjo, did you do something awesome? Is there a stag ceremony kit or something? :lol:

[xDreamerx]

Tampons are evil because fundie girls are supposed to have as little contact with that area as possible, and the only thing that is supposed to be up there anyway is the girl's husband. I don't know if they actually believe that tampons make them lose their virginity, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I've also wondered what women in combat do. I'm glad I'm not the only one!

Okay, since it has been mentioned...as the mother of an 11 year old boy, how do I bring up the subject of puberty and nocturnal...stuff? And when? How do I do it in a way that isn't embarrassing for him or me? My husband is zero help thanks to years of living with dysfunctional parents, so I suspect it's up to me. Clibbyjo, did you do something awesome? Is there a stag ceremony kit or something? :lol:

I don't know if there's a kit but there are some ceremonial things I've read of. It's in one of my books upstairs. I could post it tomorrow as I'm too lazy right now. Although, it might be of the Silver Raven Wolf sort if my memory serves or something like her.

[forever ago]

@Joe: Fundies believe, basically, nothing should go into a woman's vagina except her husband's penis. Yeah, wtf.

I learned about periods when I was 7. I started developing at 9. It was horrible, because the first thing I got was acne. Horrible, horrible acne that has left scars, and didn't let up until I was 18 and went on birth control. I got my first period at 12. Strangely enough my periods started out quite regular, though they were like 8 or 9 days long, and just gross chunks of old blood, and I had minimal cramping. Then at 14 my periods got very heavy, totally irregular and of course horribly painful. They got slightly less painful at 17, thank whatever deity may exist. Of course, one day when I was 15 or 16 I decided to take an aspirin because I couldn't find any other type of painkiller. Not only did I learn that aspirin is basically useless for menstrual cramps, I also learned that I was allergic to it. :( Thankfully, the NuvaRing means my cramps are manageable without medication, my periods are regular and a lot lighter and shorter.

So yeah, if Joy has really bad periods like many of us did, I feel so bad for her.

[muffynbear]

9? WOW! Is that typical? (sorry, gonna put on an "I don't know if this is an appropriate question face right now" :?: )

I had my period at the age of 9 too. It sucks, and I wish I would have gotten it a few years later.

[tabitha2]

I know right.I hope it balances out and and I stop really early but I don't have that kind of luck :(

[bicyclecat]

My periods started really early and they were a horrible experience. I think I was somewhere around 10 years old and for the week prior, I was just in agony. My period started and that explained that. My mom was supportive and explained what it meant and all of that, but didn't make a big deal about any of it. No special parties, no real celebration or any fanfare, which was fine with me, as I was a rather shy about it. It was my personal thing and nobody needed to know much about it. The rest of the puberty issues (deodorant, shaving, bras) were dealt with when they absolutely had to be. Someone told my mother that I was a little pungent and we went to the store for razors and deodorant. Puberty was such a non issue in my family and I appreciated it a lot. I was taught that it's something that happens to everyone and it's nothing to really worry too much about, unless something is really wrong.

I did have very hellish periods until low dose birth control became available in my early 20's. I'd have such bad cramps that all I could do was curl up in a ball and cry my eyes out. When things got really bad, I'd get really pale, breakout into cold sweats, throw up... it was horrible and I ended up in the ER more than a few times. Or curled up, halfway sleeping in front of the open freezer, because it was the only place that was even close to being comfortable. My pediatrician recommended BC pills, but my mom wouldn't hear of it. They gave me Vicodin and excused me from school for the first few days of my period, because I just couldn't function. The vicodin was enough to put me to sleep, so I spent that time knocked out, with two huge pads strapped to me and a huge towel folded up underneath me, because my flow was so heavy that I'd bleed through the most absorbant pad we could find in about an hour.

We never did really figure out what the problem was, but BC pills dealt with it and I rarely have a problem that Aleve doesn't handle these days. I get sleepy for a few days beforehand, a backache the day before, cramps the day of and a headache shortly after it's over. It's tolerable, which is good, because if I still had such horrendous periods, I'd have demanded a hysterectomy by now.

I do have to wonder what a fundie family would do, if they had a daughter with these kinds of problems. I'm sure BC would be out of the question completely and I can't imagine that opiate pain medication or anything like that would be okay either. With some of the families that are opposed to medical care in general or try to use home remedies, I can't imagine that a daughter with menstrual issues would fare well. I really feel bad for them. If my parents just told me to smile, be sweet and that this was a punishment from God... i shudder to think what I would have done.

[morfydd]

Two things:

1) A lot of you have talked about really bad periods. Have you talked to your doctors about endometriosis? I was in surgery for something unrelated and when I woke up they said, "Hey, we saw a lot of cysts in there and removed them." And then my (never terribly bad) cramps went completely away, and only started coming back after about 5 years.

Apparently 10-20% of American women have endometriosis. Treatment options aren't great, but please look into at least diagnosis if you're having crippling cramps.

2) Compared to some of you all, my (otherwise conservative Christian Republican) mom was great about getting my period. At some point my schoolteacher called her in for a conference and told her I needed "the talk" (the story leading up to that is funny but long) so she took me to some public lecture/explanation about it. If I had to guess it would have been hosted by Planned Parenthood(!) and was very clinical and useful. So I got good information without my mom having to directly discuss it with me. When my period actually arrived, I was totally nonchalant about it. My family's not very conversational about certain things, so I just grabbed pads from my mom's stash when I needed them and never brought up the topic.*

And both parents were pretty sane about the idea that periods were just a biological thing. My dad would happily buy supplies for us, pointing out that half the population needed them at some point so it would be dumb to be embarrassed by them.

*Ok, except the first time when I told my mom so I could lie that I wasn't feeling well and stay home from school. :) I think she asked if I were ok and needed anything, but otherwise it wasn't a big deal.

[nutella addict]

Ughh, you poor ladies with such debilitating cramps! I also started when I was 11, and it was around Easter and just before my 12th birthday. I got it in school and was horrified and thought I must have imagined it so spent the day ignoring it, but I had to tell my mom that night because all the adults were going out except my grandpa and I sure didn't want to tell him! I called my Mom into the bathroom and showed her (couldn't say it, too embarrassed) and she *immediately* leaned out the door and shouted the news to my grandma. I was absolutely mortified! My mom seemed excited and absurdly proud, and I just wanted it to go away, I was so not ready for it, even though she told me about it when I was 8 and started to get acne (I also should've started wearing a bra in 4th grade and mostly avoided it till sometime in 5th grade). I had quite bad cramps up until going on the pill for irregular periods and acne (STILL!) at the age of 21, but never wanted to admit to them so I'd take ibuprofen and try to either suck it up or hide curled up somewhere. My sister got it at 13 or so, I think, though, but she was more athletic although we were equally skinny.

I was the first of my friends (possibly classmates?) to get it and it took a long time for me to get used to it and feel more comfortable with it. I was definitely tired, irritable, and in pain, and sometimes the cramps upset my stomach a bit, and they were really heavy (and very irregular, only seeming to come at the least convenient time like on a school trip to an amusement park or a family vacation to the Caribbean) for years, really up until I went on the pill. Not like medical problem heavy, just you know, the upper end of the range of normal, and would last for at least a week if not longer. Plenty of 'accidents'. Oh, and I was scared of tampons and couldn't get them in right for about a year, and I loved swimming :(. If I'd had to deal with that while living in a cramped bus with my family, I would be absolutely miserable. How would you hide leaks, especially overnight ones? Ugh.

Curious about wet dreams too - don't the girls have to do the guys' laundry? That just seems painfully awkward, and I feel like they'd be shamed for having sexual thoughts even in their sleep. Or maybe some would argue that this is just proof that men can't control themselves so that's why women need to be super careful not to tempt them. Hmmm...

[HowRude]

I hope that Joy just gets her privacy. When I got my period my mom told all her friends at least Michelle didn't tell the world if Joy did get it. I hope no one tells her anything to make her awkward around boys especially her brothers.

[desertvixen]

Okay this is really off topic and really dumb but I've always wondered what women do about their periods if they're in the army. What if they have to go on a 12 hour mission with all guys? I mean I guess at that point modesty and privacy aren't that important....but I don't know I just always wondered.

And don't get me wrong- I'm not a crazy person like people we've seen saying women shouldn't be in the military. I just have too much time on my hands and think about random things like this haha. And it makes me think about how much I would never want to be in the military. (PMS in Iraq? Ugh. Props to the ladies out there)

I would assume they would just use continuous birth control to stop it. (It's what I would do). I have known people who have gone to developing countries and done the same thing. Although in military operation, would this be possible? Do they have medicines that are considered not essential (meaning not something you would use to treat wounds, injuries etc).

Most of us just deal with it - tampons, pads, plastic bags for disposal. There are some using the continuous birth control, but I don't - just the regular old patch. The worst problem in my personal experience in Iraq was staying on top of my supply, because they don't carry a real variety of them in the exchange down range. Bless drugstore.com for keeping me in my preferred style!

[Deleted03]

Most of us just deal with it - tampons, pads, plastic bags for disposal. There are some using the continuous birth control, but I don't - just the regular old patch. The worst problem in my personal experience in Iraq was staying on top of my supply, because they don't carry a real variety of them in the exchange down range. Bless drugstore.com for keeping me in my preferred style!

do you think you could use a divacup? seems like what I would take out there... it does need some water at some point, maybe you did not have that much to spare... (yeah you can laugh, I have no idea lol)

[clibbyjo]

Tampons are evil because fundie girls are supposed to have as little contact with that area as possible, and the only thing that is supposed to be up there anyway is the girl's husband. I don't know if they actually believe that tampons make them lose their virginity, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I've also wondered what women in combat do. I'm glad I'm not the only one!

Okay, since it has been mentioned...as the mother of an 11 year old boy, how do I bring up the subject of puberty and nocturnal...stuff? And when? How do I do it in a way that isn't embarrassing for him or me? My husband is zero help thanks to years of living with dysfunctional parents, so I suspect it's up to me. Clibbyjo, did you do something awesome? Is there a stag ceremony kit or something? :lol:

No, my son would be MORTIFIED to discuss anything like that with me.He is very,very shy and just is not the type to discuss things. I told him he can always talk to me about sex or anything related,then I borrowed a book from the UU that they were using for their OWL (sex ed.) classes and made him read it. He did NOT want to read it, I told him if he didn't, I would read it outloud to him, so he finally did. :) He has no interest in girls yet, he is a full out computer nerd.(which I love and am happy about.)

[bicyclecat]

I just dealt with it and I was in the service during the time that I had really debilitating cramps. If things got bad, I'd go to medical, they'd give me a shot of whatever opiate they had and if I could lay down for a couple hours, I did. If not, I went back to work and did the best that I could. My CO was understanding about it, but if we had orders, we had orders. I knew that going in.

Besides, if we were in the can (our slang for our battle tank) for 12 hours, most of us had at least peed ourselves anyway. War doesn't stop because someone has to use the bathroom. It's life, we dealt with it, we treated eachother with dignity and ignored it.

[xDreamerx]

The stories of women in service are interesting to read. You forget about all the mundane and human aspects of life when thinking about wars (or most people do I think). It really serves to put a personal face on it. I think something like "Women's War Stories" would make an interesting book. Wars so often focus on the experiences of men. It would be nice to add a women's voices to the experience more. Thanks to all of you for your service :)

[O Latin]

I don't get the whole ceremony/celebration thing. My mom tried to do some of that with me, and I think that's a big part of the reason why I still, at age 21, have an obsessive need to hide my period from everyone. Making a positive big deal out of it is still making a big deal out of it. I just don't understand why some people want to view it as something awesome or special or sacred or whatever. It's a bodily function. It happens to all of us (women). Why is that something to celebrate?

[Cassandra]

I had my period at the age of 9 too. It sucks, and I wish I would have gotten it a few years later.

I got mine at 10 and definitely wished it had come later. I was a super early bloomer and I've always been tall, so I had to deal with being asked out by 18 year olds when I was 12-14 because they thought I was 16-18. It was so embarrassing.

The part I hated the most was that I asked all my closest friends if they'd gotten theirs, and they hadn't. At least the Duggar girls have a lot of female siblings to talk to.

[xDreamerx]

I don't get the whole ceremony/celebration thing. My mom tried to do some of that with me, and I think that's a big part of the reason why I still, at age 21, have an obsessive need to hide my period from everyone. Making a positive big deal out of it is still making a big deal out of it. I just don't understand why some people want to view it as something awesome or special or sacred or whatever. It's a bodily function. It happens to all of us (women). Why is that something to celebrate?

Well, historically in some cultures it was celebrated. Mostly in Native American cultures and among Aboriginals and indigenous peoples. Also in certain African tribes I believe. Basically, nature-based religions and cultures celebrate it whereas Christianity and Western culture has done the opposite. Semen was considered to contain all life and the womb was just for incubation. The loss of blood in the Middle Ages was seen as a rejection of life since blood is needed for life. The view made women seem innately weak and perhaps even evil. I think it's kind of nice and feminist to have a ceremony. A way to reclaim something and rethink how we think about and construct the idea of our bodies.

[Deleted03]

I don't get the whole ceremony/celebration thing. My mom tried to do some of that with me, and I think that's a big part of the reason why I still, at age 21, have an obsessive need to hide my period from everyone. Making a positive big deal out of it is still making a big deal out of it. I just don't understand why some people want to view it as something awesome or special or sacred or whatever. It's a bodily function. It happens to all of us (women). Why is that something to celebrate?

why is that something to hide?

I think it's showing that you are growing up and the hormones that go with it will make you feel more confused. so having a rite and explaining this stuff seems like a good think to me. But well I did not have a happy mother, I had an unhappy one who just thinks it's a hassle.

Even though it always hurts, having my divacup just took the hassle out of the process. You don't have to celebrate each period, but the first one is the body saying hey I'm growing.

[O Latin]

I don't know, I guess I just wish my mom would have talked to me and asked me how I felt about it rather than just assuming that was something I wanted to celebrate. She was trying so hard to convince me that it was wonderful and normal, only I didn't need any convincing. I was one of those that followed my mom into the bathroom as a small child, so I had always know what periods were. It already seemed normal to me, and then she tried to make a big deal of it. I think that's probably why I started trying to hide it from her, because I just didn't want to talk to her about it. It's not that I was embarrassed or ashamed. I'm just naturally a very private, modest person, and that's not really something I like to discuss.

Of course, the real issue is that my mom has never been able to accept the fact that her oldest daughter is not Just Like Her, but that's another story.

[nutella addict]

Oh how well I relate to you, O Latin. I also wanted to hide mine and not talk about it for a very long time, and still am very subtle about such things. My mom also sometimes has trouble remembering that her oldest daughter isn't her. We do have a lot of things in common but we're also very different people, and it gets quite frustrating for me. I think it's slowly getting slightly better, but it's a gradual thing.