Is Mormonism a Cult?

[emesbe]

However, if you work for the church or BYU, your tithing automatically gets deducted. That's what the poster may have been thinking of.

Nope, my husband works for the church/BYUI, and does not have tithing automatically deducted. He says they will do the deduction only on request.

[Jessica]

I have a bit of a weird fascination with Mormonism. I think it's because the entire thing sounds so laughable yet so many people buy it and the doctrine is just CRAZY. I knew two girls who were raised Mormon and both left, but members are very rare here in the UK, or at least to my knowledge.

People buy into it because of the aforementioned "milk before meat" issue. I got into it because I had just become a Christian and was looking for a church community. The people were nice and there were other people my age, so I joined. The weirder stuff comes out the more you get into it.

[ElphabaGalinda]

Yes. The community in the LDS church is GREAT! Everyone is so friendly, so close-knit, like a big happy family. But when you leave it's either a) as if you don't exist anymore or b) you're constantly bombarded with Church materials left on your doorstep (I was given 4 copies of Daughters In my Kingdom in a week last year!). There are some wonderful, relaxed people who will just let you be if you leave, but in my experience it's the exception and not the rule. That's what's so scary about leaving. You don't know how your friends will react--if they'll still love and respect you or if they'll completely erase you from their life. It's SCARY to think about losing people who have become so close to your heart. But at the same time, it makes you realize that anyone who drops you like that isn't a real friend. But it's still scary!

That makes it sound like such a fake sense of community, and such a superficial closeness. If someone's love for me was conditional on my religion, i'd think they really didn't care too much about me at all. If I had a friend who abandoned me because of my beliefs, I'd think they weren't really my friend to begin with. I'd like a strong community, but only if it's based on people truly caring about each other. How did you figure out how fake the sense of loving family actually was? I don't think they'd advertize they do that if you leave, but once you see the first person leaving, it'd show how conditional the love truly is.

[Jessica]

How did I figure it out? When I decided to stop going last year. I didn't go out with a bang and I wasn't rude to anyone. I quietly kept my beliefs to myself. I'd stop and say hi to my LDS neighbors when I'd be out on a walk and they'd act like they didn't hear or see me. In the store they would quickly walk down another aisle to avoid me. My son and I would be taking a walk and if the neighborhood kids were in the yard and saw us coming they'd run inside before we were close enough to say hi. It happened often enough that it was pretty obvious it wasn't just a coincidence. Hell, MY HUSBAND DIVORCED ME FOR LEAVING, even though I was respectful and supportive of his beliefs and decisions.

[NjoyingNsanity]

I don't know if it's really a cult or not, but I have read the book of Mormon and had the thought that it reads allot like a work of Biblical fanfiction.

[ElphabaGalinda]

How did I figure it out? When I decided to stop going last year. I didn't go out with a bang and I wasn't rude to anyone. I quietly kept my beliefs to myself. I'd stop and say hi to my LDS neighbors when I'd be out on a walk and they'd act like they didn't hear or see me. In the store they would quickly walk down another aisle to avoid me. My son and I would be taking a walk and if the neighborhood kids were in the yard and saw us coming they'd run inside before we were close enough to say hi. It happened often enough that it was pretty obvious it wasn't just a coincidence. Hell, MY HUSBAND DIVORCED ME FOR LEAVING, even though I was respectful and supportive of his beliefs and decisions.

That's really sad. I'm sorry that happened to you. But if that's how people were going to be, I'm very glad you left, and I hope it was worth it for you. People who won't respect your beliefs or decisions aren't worth it, IMO.

[Hane]

I have read the book of Mormon and had the thought that it reads a lot like a work of Biblical fanfiction.

OMG--yes! That's exactly how I'd describe it!

[freejoytoo]

Glad you left, Jessica, you sound much better off away from those jerks. Out of curiosity, what was the turning point for your doubt?

[YPestis]

I don't consider Mormonism a cult, but it's more closed off than other religions due to it's small size and history of persecution. Like any small, persecuted group, they tend to close ranks when they see threats from outsiders. Mormons as a group cluster together and maybe exclude nonMormons, or reject those that leave the Church because of their history and because they are so few of them there's a defensive mechanism always in place. In many ways, they are like other small religious groups such as the Amish and ultra-Orthrodox Jews. There are cultish tendencies by nature of history and size, but I can't say they are cults.

That said, I don't agree with Mormon doctrine, particularly as it affects women. I also don't like their bland, happy family facade as I feel it ignores the real problems families face. I also disagree with the church's heavy pressure to marry and have kids. I don't like the Church's stance that people must marry and have kids or their after life is in jeopardy. I believe most people are happy in their family life, and most people want to get married and have kids. I just don't like any religion that advocates it so strongly as to make people feel deviant for not doing so.

[Guest Anonymous]

This is one of the biggest things that attracts me to Mormonism. It might just be my outsider, grass-is-always-greener-on-the-other-side-of-the-fence perspective, but I wish more churches were like this. At my church, almost everything is done by the paid staff and a select few volunteers who might as well be staff. It's a pretty big church, so it makes sense to have a large staff, but I wish there were more opportunities (and maybe even expectation) to be involved beyond just coming to service on Sunday morning. I know that's not a reason to switch religions, it's just something I like to gripe about from time to time.

It's not volunteering in the church is you're required to do it to stay in good standing.

[Deleted05]

OMG--yes! That's exactly how I'd describe it!

I've been dragging myself through the first book of Nephi, and that description was the first thing that came to mind. Fan fiction when the author is trying way too hard.

"And it came to pass that the daughters of the land took up the book. And it came to pass that the book was really dry, and Nephi was super full of himself. And it came to pass that the daughters of the land said, "this man's English teacher should smack him upside the head for not using any different transitions." And it came to pass that the book was cast under the bed.

I have a question for the ex-Mormons. How does the married-in-heaven-forever stuff get around what Jesus said about not marrying or giving in marriage in heaven? Also, how often can one seal one's family in the temple? Is it something you do each time you have another kid?

[Lola]

How did I figure it out? When I decided to stop going last year. I didn't go out with a bang and I wasn't rude to anyone. I quietly kept my beliefs to myself. I'd stop and say hi to my LDS neighbors when I'd be out on a walk and they'd act like they didn't hear or see me. In the store they would quickly walk down another aisle to avoid me. My son and I would be taking a walk and if the neighborhood kids were in the yard and saw us coming they'd run inside before we were close enough to say hi. It happened often enough that it was pretty obvious it wasn't just a coincidence. Hell, MY HUSBAND DIVORCED ME FOR LEAVING, even though I was respectful and supportive of his beliefs and decisions.

That kind of happened to me, at my work, I sometimes wore a skirt, because it's more comfortable (PLUS having a religious name) and no one would talk to me, they thought I was some big religious freak. I'm far from it, it made me realize what kind of people they are.

[Lola]

I have a friend that is a Mormon, but he never talks about it, so idk. I think all religions are in some way a cult.

[themadapple]

I've been dragging myself through the first book of Nephi, and that description was the first thing that came to mind. Fan fiction when the author is trying way too hard.

"And it came to pass that the daughters of the land took up the book. And it came to pass that the book was really dry, and Nephi was super full of himself. And it came to pass that the daughters of the land said, "this man's English teacher should smack him upside the head for not using any different transitions." And it came to pass that the book was cast under the bed.

The incorrect and unnecessary usage of -eth did keep me amused for a few pages. For fuck's sake, if you're going to found a major religion, hire a decent ghostwriter.

[rewoodley]

In regards to the whole happy family perfect wife thing, I had read/heard somewhere that Utah has the highest use of anti-depressants. Not sure if that is really true but if there are tons of women being forced to put on a picture perfect life, it kind of makes sense to me, I would certainly need them.

[emily]

I've been dragging myself through the first book of Nephi, and that description was the first thing that came to mind. Fan fiction when the author is trying way too hard.

"And it came to pass that the daughters of the land took up the book. And it came to pass that the book was really dry, and Nephi was super full of himself. And it came to pass that the daughters of the land said, "this man's English teacher should smack him upside the head for not using any different transitions." And it came to pass that the book was cast under the bed.

I have a question for the ex-Mormons. How does the married-in-heaven-forever stuff get around what Jesus said about not marrying or giving in marriage in heaven? Also, how often can one seal one's family in the temple? Is it something you do each time you have another kid?

I'm dying laughing at your BOM summary. I've never read the book as a whole, only the passages that were required during classes.

As far as the temple sealing, it's only done once. Memebrs who are married in the temple are sealed during the ceremony, and the sealing includes any children that may be born to the couple in the future. If the members decide to adopt children, they are not included in the marriage sealing, and a separate ceremony must be performed once the adoption is final. Members who are married outside the temple (gasp!) are required to wait a year after the civil ceremony to do the temple sealing, and if they've had children in the meantime, the children are required to attend the ceremony in order to be included.

I am not familiar with what you reference about Jesus saying you can't marry in heaven or "giving in marriage".

[Witsec7]

This blog is by a mormon -

citymousescountryhouse.blogspot.co.uk/

latest post is about having the family sealed.

On her 30th BD she got to pick her meal, tuna casserole and orange carrot jello salad. That's a pretty damn Mormon menu.

[Maul the Koala]

As far as the temple sealing, it's only done once. Memebrs who are married in the temple are sealed during the ceremony, and the sealing includes any children that may be born to the couple in the future. If the members decide to adopt children, they are not included in the marriage sealing, and a separate ceremony must be performed once the adoption is final. Members who are married outside the temple (gasp!) are required to wait a year after the civil ceremony to do the temple sealing, and if they've had children in the meantime, the children are required to attend the ceremony in order to be included.

I've never gotten why Mormons in the US and Canada have to wait a year if they were married in a civil ceremony first but those in countries where the civil and religious marriage have to be separate do not have to wait a year. Boggles my mind.

[NerdyHil]

Most Mormon teenagers are so docile because they are sleep-deprived, overworked and under tremendous pressure to be the embodiment of absolute Mormon perfection.

I knew a few kids like that growing up, but on the whole they were just normal teenagers. My group of friends didn't drink or do any other typically teenage things in HS(we thought we were straight edge) but we did indulge in complex vandalism. It was in a pre-September 11th world, so explosions were funny. All of us were Mormon. However, two out of the seven of us aren't anymore. I think if there was any sleep deprivation or overwork it was because we lived in a farming community.

[emily]

I've never gotten why Mormons in the US and Canada have to wait a year if they were married in a civil ceremony first but those in countries where the civil and religious marriage have to be separate do not have to wait a year. Boggles my mind.

I believe it is to discourage members from chosing to have both a civil ceremony and a temple ceremony. They believe it detracts from the importance of the temple ceremony to also have the pomp and circumstance of the civil ceremony. Other countries perhaps don't recognize the religious ceremonies to be valid and therefore local law requires couples to have a civil ceremony.

[Deleted05]

I'm dying laughing at your BOM summary. I've never read the book as a whole, only the passages that were required during classes.

As far as the temple sealing, it's only done once. Memebrs who are married in the temple are sealed during the ceremony, and the sealing includes any children that may be born to the couple in the future. If the members decide to adopt children, they are not included in the marriage sealing, and a separate ceremony must be performed once the adoption is final. Members who are married outside the temple (gasp!) are required to wait a year after the civil ceremony to do the temple sealing, and if they've had children in the meantime, the children are required to attend the ceremony in order to be included.

I am not familiar with what you reference about Jesus saying you can't marry in heaven or "giving in marriage".

Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. “Teacher,†they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother. Now there were seven brothers. The first one married and died without leaving any children. The second one married the widow, but he also died, leaving no child. It was the same with the third. In fact, none of the seven left any children. Last of all, the woman died too. At the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?â€

Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Mark 12

[emily]

Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. “Teacher,†they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother. Now there were seven brothers. The first one married and died without leaving any children. The second one married the widow, but he also died, leaving no child. It was the same with the third. In fact, none of the seven left any children. Last of all, the woman died too. At the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?â€

Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Mark 12

After looking up this passage in the KJV (which is the only bible version I'm familiar with), it still does not strike me as being something I've heard before. Not surprised, though, because it does seem to present quite the dilemma as far as being contradictory to LDS practice. It's not the first time I've learned of something from non-members that shines a light on the holes in the Mormon story.

Are you familiar with what the LDS call the "Joseph Smith Translation?" IIRC, it is a few chapters of the bible that JS attempted to "fix" because the lord told him there were errors in the way it wa translated. I guess they missed this chapter of Mark.

Perhaps other ex-Mormons here have heard this addressed in a church setting before?

[Deleted05]

After looking up this passage in the KJV (which is the only bible version I'm familiar with), it still does not strike me as being something I've heard before. Not surprised, though, because it does seem to present quite the dilemma as far as being contradictory to LDS practice. It's not the first time I've learned of something from non-members that shines a light on the holes in the Mormon story.

Are you familiar with what the LDS call the "Joseph Smith Translation?" IIRC, it is a few chapters of the bible that JS attempted to "fix" because the lord told him there were errors in the way it wa translated. I guess they missed this chapter of Mark.

Perhaps other ex-Mormons here have heard this addressed in a church setting before?

I'm not familiar with this, but it doesn't surprise me. Do you know which portions were "fixed?"

[emily]

I'm not familiar with this, but it doesn't surprise me. Do you know which portions were "fixed?"

Here is a link to the JST on the LDS website: http://www.lds.org/scriptures/jst?lang=eng

ETA: The Community of Christ (used to be called the RLDS) also uses a version of the Joseph Smith translated bible to supplement their scripture, although theirs is longer. There was a dispute between them and the LDS historically regarding who got to keep Joseph Jr's translations when he died. The LDS only received partial translation, supppoedly, and according to some, that is why the LDS version is incomplete. The Community of Christ version can be found here: http://www.eldersconference.org/ebooks/ ... Bible.html

[B5SnowDog]

I agree. No, they're not asking for pay stubs or tax returns when you go in for a temple recommend interview. Trust me, even hardcore Mormons would object to their bishop/stake president pawing through their tax returns. That's just loony. However, if you work for the church or BYU, your tithing automatically gets deducted. That's what the poster may have been thinking of.

At least one poster at ExMormon.org mentioned being asked to give his pay stubs. You can read his full post here: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,5 ... #msg-51146