"How to Get Away with Rape" Posted in College Dorm

[mkitten]

This is disgusting.

When it happen to me, my college did everything to "keep" me happy. It just happened last semester, they were going to send out a campus alert but they didn't have details and my therapist thought it would be too triggering for me but now I wonder if it was to keep it quiet.

One of my profs suggested I took a medical leave and quit midsemester. I wouldn't have come back at all and would have wasted all the money I would have spent.

I'm so sorry that happened to you.

[mebeforee]

I think it was written in jest, but I don't believe at all that this was written to bring awareness to the issue. It seems to me that some idiot boys wrote this up - yes, as a joke - and then distributed it. None of them will ever come forward about making it, now, because it's become an issue and the kind of people who make these kind of jokes tend to be cowardly when it comes the owning their responsibility for that.

It's pretty revolting to me, but I don't think there's anything the school can do unless someone identifies the guy who made it. Which I don't think will happen, because I would be willing to bet that they think everyone is overreacting. That's the kind of mentality that people have.

You can't force people to treat things like rape with the consideration they should have, but it's really offensive to me that so many young guys will go in the opposite direction and make a joke out of it. For some reason there's this reaction some people have, like, 'god, people are so serious about rape! get over it!' Which just doesn't make sense to me.

[SpeakNow]

You can't force people to treat things like rape with the consideration they should have, but it's really offensive to me that so many young guys will go in the opposite direction and make a joke out of it. For some reason there's this reaction some people have, like, 'god, people are so serious about rape! get over it!' Which just doesn't make sense to me.

^this

[Deleted03]

I think it was written in jest, but I don't believe at all that this was written to bring awareness to the issue. It seems to me that some idiot boys wrote this up - yes, as a joke - and then distributed it. None of them will ever come forward about making it, now, because it's become an issue and the kind of people who make these kind of jokes tend to be cowardly when it comes the owning their responsibility for that.

It's pretty revolting to me, but I don't think there's anything the school can do unless someone identifies the guy who made it. Which I don't think will happen, because I would be willing to bet that they think everyone is overreacting. That's the kind of mentality that people have.

You can't force people to treat things like rape with the consideration they should have, but it's really offensive to me that so many young guys will go in the opposite direction and make a joke out of it. For some reason there's this reaction some people have, like, 'god, people are so serious about rape! get over it!' Which just doesn't make sense to me.

I agree with you.

I think in some milieu rape jokes are actually accepted. My roommate was in a conference in Europe and it started with a silly show of vikings, and the guys said "we are coming to kill all your men and rape all the women. But don't worry this time we will not kill your men". In my area of studies, I think all women would have just left the building. My roommate finds this funny. I find it horrifying. There's a hard sciences/social sciences and humanities divide there.

But I still hope rape jokes just stop being acceptable.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Why can't they expel these guys for encouraging illegal behavior?

:evil:

Free speech issues, most likely.

But yeah, free speech. So someone oughta take pics of people doing things like this or holding some banners "free roofies" or whatever disgusting things, and post 'em up. Let everyone know just what their opinions are.

In fact in general a lot of women in colleges seem to put up with these things because it's uni life or whatever. I knew some friends who were more tolerant than they would have been otherwise when people in colleges made comments or did things. They would have found it unacceptable in other circumstances. My friend also met some girls from the pro-rape Sydney Uni college shortly after it became a scandal and apparently they were defending it and trying to justify it.

It's rape culture. So yeah, we're socialized from day one to believe that the NORM is for men to take what they want from women, whenever they want it, and if you want to be accepted as one of the "cool girls" you better laugh right along with the misogynist humor and maybe just try to tell yourself that those guys don't take it serious, and anyway surely they're talking about OTHER girls.

Large portions of the internet also operate this way.

If you don't laugh, or worse yet if you call some entitled ass out on his behavior, it's YOU who has a problem, you can't take a joke, and anyway why do you feel threatened, you're ugly anyway no one is going to come after YOU with roofies because you're unwanted, hahahaha! - gaslighting.

And this goes on with a sort of expectation (by those engaging in it) that they should be protected from the consequences (of people in their "serious" lives finding out they're misogynistic pervs), that somehow "what's on my bro forum should say on the bro forum," or "what's at the frat party stays at the frat party." Eff that. Expose 'em. If they want to say that sort of thing, they can do it in the sunshine. (Or they can be more careful about how and when they post about stuff.)

FWIW I was science track all through school, and yes a lot of my classmates would find it funny. Heck, I work with people who aren't THAT bad but do make jokes just based on this "women are for sex" assumption. To get along, many women will just shut up and go along, because absolutely there's this feeling of "why are you so offended?" "why so serious? Why does this issue matter to you so much I just don't get it?" if you say anything, but certainly people are offended.

Thing is it's pervasive, for both those who end up making the jokes and those who end up sitting silently through them - it's patriarchy. We're steeped in it.

[desertvixen]

If you don't laugh, or worse yet if you call some entitled ass out on his behavior, it's YOU who has a problem, you can't take a joke, and anyway why do you feel threatened, you're ugly anyway no one is going to come after YOU with roofies because you're unwanted, hahahaha! - gaslighting.

And this goes on with a sort of expectation (by those engaging in it) that they should be protected from the consequences (of people in their "serious" lives finding out they're misogynistic pervs), that somehow "what's on my bro forum should say on the bro forum," or "what's at the frat party stays at the frat party." Eff that. Expose 'em. If they want to say that sort of thing, they can do it in the sunshine. (Or they can be more careful about how and when they post about stuff.)

QFT.

[mebeforee]

I think it's not entirely surprising, though. Not saying it's any less horrible, but just knowing how my peers reacted to videos we were forced to watch in high school, and that transferring into college level stuff. I started my college undergrad in 2005 and I remember during the freshman intro stuff, we were sat down in huge meeting sessions where they showed videos about what is or isn't rape. It's important that they do that, of course, because it should be made clear to young people that even if you're making out with someone heavily, the second they say 'no', you're done. And that a person might be drunk or come into your dorm room, but if they at all resist in sexual interactions, it's rape to continue.

But knowing that these kind of videos and presentations have probably INCREASED since that time, it just doesn't surprise me that people do stuff like this. Because I think the majority of guys would never think about raping anyone, and the idea of it is absurd enough to them that they mock the idea that these info sessions are given to everyone. They ignore the fact that the sessions and videos were made to address an existing problem, thinking instead 'I would never do that, why do I have to sit through all this crap?' And that leads to dumbass moves like making a 'how to get away with rape' list. It's a classic 'everyone is just like me' mentality, where they don't understand that there are people out there who have DONE THESE THINGS and perhaps not realized the gravity of them, and that's why they're watching a forty minute video about drunken college situations that could be traumatic for one or both parties.

[PennySycamore]

My daughter had once thought about transferring to Penn State as it has one of the top programs in her field of study. She quickly changed her mind as her older sister found out that 1 in 5 women reports being sexually assaulted during their time as a student at Penn State.

[desertvixen]

But knowing that these kind of videos and presentations have probably INCREASED since that time, it just doesn't surprise me that people do stuff like this. Because I think the majority of guys would never think about raping anyone, and the idea of it is absurd enough to them that they mock the idea that these info sessions are given to everyone.

Part of the problem with this is that of course the majority of guys don't think of a lot of rapes that happen in college environments (date/acquaintance rape, getting a girl too drunk to say so - also happens a lot in the military, I am ashamed to say but then we are dealing with the same general age group) IS rape. Rape is this horrible violent crime, perpetrated by a stranger, and of course they would never do that! THEY were just trying to have a good time. Never mind that the majority of people who have been raped were raped by someone they knew.

[mebeforee]

Part of the problem with this is that of course the majority of guys don't think of a lot of rapes that happen in college environments (date/acquaintance rape, getting a girl too drunk to say so - also happens a lot in the military, I am ashamed to say but then we are dealing with the same general age group) IS rape. Rape is this horrible violent crime, perpetrated by a stranger, and of course they would never do that! THEY were just trying to have a good time. Never mind that the majority of people who have been raped were raped by someone they knew.

You're right, of course. That's why those videos and sessions are created in the first place, but people still can't manage to wrap their heads around it. I think people are very quick to defend themselves, and try to discredit the experience of the other person. Intention isn't everything, after all, and part of accountability should include accepting that your actions have consequences that affect others, even if you don't mean them to. And it's really a necessary thing that people are trying to spread the knowledge so that men know that there are no second chances when it comes to this kind of thing, and making an effort to help them understand the situations in which they might 'accidentally' find themselves hurting another person.

I completely believe that the person who created this list should be disciplined and potentially expelled. But I think it's a very pervasive mentality that will be hard to eliminate, especially since schools are apparently so reluctant to do anything about this stuff.

Really, as soon as the higher social structures (families and schools especially, since these are the most prominent disciplinarians during the formative years) start treating THIS kind of misbehavior as a serious offense, people will stop acting like it's no big thing. But right now, the action itself is given a certain level of gravity and the talking/joking about that action is not. People see it as edgy or controversial to joke about rape, which is actually attractive to a lot of college-age people. The environment of lax awareness has contributed a lot to this situation, and while the people that created this list are absolutely guilty, there are larger issues that also need to be addressed in order to prevent this kind of behavior in the future.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I very much agree they don't do it in a vacuum.

[desertvixen]

You're right, of course. That's why those videos and sessions are created in the first place, but people still can't manage to wrap their heads around it.

It doesn't help that a lot of the videos kinda suck. I actually like some of the new ones the Army has made - they have one with a party and alcohol situation where the guy who is trying to intervene keeps getting blown off by others as a wet blanket.

I completely believe that the person who created this list should be disciplined and potentially expelled. But I think it's a very pervasive mentality that will be hard to eliminate, especially since schools are apparently so reluctant to do anything about this stuff.

I agree that it is very pervasive and a lot of higher ups are reluctant to do anything about it because they still have a "boys will be boys"/"sluts gets what they deserve" attitude. See also military for this with a side effect of "women want to join up, they can deal with it or get out". I do believe the higher ups in the military realize we need to change (if only to get rid of the black eyes) but too many immediate commanders still have shitty attitudes about it.

The environment of lax awareness has contributed a lot to this situation, and while the people that created this list are absolutely guilty, there are larger issues that also need to be addressed in order to prevent this kind of behavior in the future.

The larger issues need to be addressed, but it starts with the smaller ones. Addressing the larger issues will mean nothing without addressing the smaller ones. (I know we're not disagreeing on the fact that they need to be punished/exposed.)

[Claddagh]

I hope whoever came up with that horrible list is caught and punished. :evil:

When I was in college ads for self defense and crisis hotlines were posted all over the place.

I was assaulted in college. Thankfully not raped but kicked in the head hard enough that I've had to have four teeth pulled. After the event was reported and the guy arrested I was pulled into the dean's office and was told I was only to discuss the matter with a certain few people on campus. The dean even called my parents up asking them not to discuss the matter. It didn't stop word from getting out though.

[jaynie]

Part of the problem with this is that of course the majority of guys don't think of a lot of rapes that happen in college environments (date/acquaintance rape, getting a girl too drunk to say so - also happens a lot in the military, I am ashamed to say but then we are dealing with the same general age group) IS rape. Rape is this horrible violent crime, perpetrated by a stranger, and of course they would never do that! THEY were just trying to have a good time. Never mind that the majority of people who have been raped were raped by someone they knew.

I think both of these are relevant. If you have 10 guys hanging around making rape jokes, maybe 7-8 of them are thinking "None of us would ever actually do that! That's ridiculous and therefore funny!", 1-2 of them actually have/would but don't realize it because they don't understand consent, and 1 is thinking "yes, all these guys are on my side! Fetch the roofies!" But the 7-8 who genuinely wouldn't rape someone need to realize that their jokes encourage the ones who *would*, and discourage the ones who don't get it from ever learning about what, exactly, constitutes rape. They're probably the ones who could make the biggest difference to rape culture if they were more aware, and yet the awareness campaigns (mostly) don't really target them.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I was assaulted in college. Thankfully not raped but kicked in the head hard enough that I've had to have four teeth pulled. After the event was reported and the guy arrested I was pulled into the dean's office and was told I was only to discuss the matter with a certain few people on campus. The dean even called my parents up asking them not to discuss the matter. It didn't stop word from getting out though.

...the eff? Did the school have some sort of official tarted up reason for WHY you weren't supposed to discuss it with anyone? I know colleges get all sensitive about their brand image ("oh no what will parents of prospective students think?") but that's ridiculous.

But the 7-8 who genuinely wouldn't rape someone need to realize that their jokes encourage the ones who *would*, and discourage the ones who don't get it from ever learning about what, exactly, constitutes rape. They're probably the ones who could make the biggest difference to rape culture if they were more aware, and yet the awareness campaigns (mostly) don't really target them.

I think there's something to that, yeah - almost as if we should probably think about having some campaign PRO-"calling out," essentially. Not necessarily even anything with sanctions or you should turn your friends in or whatever, but just something to tarnish the image of the people who make those sorts of jokes, socially. Sort of spread the word that people who talk that way are losers. Subtly. It would need to aim at people who "obviously wouldn't do that or joke like that," building up the supposed listeners, to say, you probably have FRIENDS who make these crass jokes, and they're losers, or something. I dunno.

Food for thought anyway.

[ADoyle90815]

This is disgusting. Still, the only things I remember about my college experience was that they had those fliers for the rape crisis hotline and self-defense classes, as well as campus police escorts at night to the parking lots and dorms, women were reminded constantly to avoid parts of the library unless you were part of a group.

[Katydid]

This is disgusting, and what's even more disgusting is that the university did so little to combat it.

[Claddagh]

...the eff? Did the school have some sort of official tarted up reason for WHY you weren't supposed to discuss it with anyone? I know colleges get all sensitive about their brand image ("oh no what will parents of prospective students think?") but that's ridiculous.

There was a lot of "What will the students and parents think?"

It wasn't until later that I found out that this guy had a history of violence and assaulting people. Because he was admitted and took classes despite lashing out the college was afraid that they could be sued.

Thankfully it was my last semester at college and they gave me my degree and pushed me out that door so fast my head could spin.

[QueenNocturne]

I'm a Miami U alum, and I know that pretty much all of the fellow alum I've spoken to about this are livid that someone would post this. The issue is, while we have a number of groups (or at least had while I was there, which wasn't long ago at all) who are dedicated to fighting attitudes like this, there's also a bit of an "entitled frat boy" culture who would pull shit like this. Not to mention, the administration isn't always on the ball in regards to responding to incidents like the one in the news story.

I really hope whoever the student was that posted that flier will get punished for it. Even more, I hope that kid grows up and realizes that rape is not even remotely something to make light of.

[Anxious Girl]

This campus should be taking action instead of trying to sweep these incidents such as this under the rug. How come embarassment is the first thing that colleges worry about instead of solving the problem and making their campus safe and students feel safer? If they're so God-damned worried about appearances, why try to hide it under the rug? Why not try to make life more safer for their students on campus? Don't they realize that incidents like these will make people NOT want to go to their college? Uncaring dumbasses. :evil:

[gardenvarietycitizen]

there's also a bit of an "entitled frat boy" culture who would pull shit like this.

It's that right there, that "entitled frat boy" culture, that "we can take and take and take with no consequences," that "you owe us sexual attention if we choose you for whatever reason, and we're free to disparage you when we're tired of you" thing, that air that makes the rape jokes "funny, because they're true"... that's patriarchy. The "boys will be boys!" wink wink nod nod, that's patriarchy. Pervasive.

[luckystone]

I read a blog by a UK medical student who was raped in her first week or something, by a third year medical student. Apparently he did it a lot. Everyone thought they just hooked up and she even got some praise for it but it was rape, and involved drugs and violence. She saw the year through then dropped out because she was still horrifically traumatised. She was starting the blog because she was going back to study medicine as a mature-aged student and finally felt ready to tell people.

The horrible thing was that she never reported it. Which is obviously understandable. But the guy was a repeat offender, and she strongly implied he's a doctor now, which is terrifying. A lot of the comments were asking her why she didn't report him to try and save others, and you could tell it was something she felt bad about but couldn't fix. I wish I could find it and post it here, it was a depressing but relevant read.

[AtroposHeart]

I can hear it now

"Stupid femanazi's that can't take a joke."

Let's forget how realistic the advice seems

[Kitty]

I can hear it now

"Stupid femanazi's that can't take a joke."

Let's forget how realistic the advice seems

Of course, entitled frat boys/Family Guy leghumpers encouraging other frat boys/Family Guy leghumpers.

The easing I mention family guy is that when I clicked on this thread tonight to read the new posts, the first thing that came.to my mind was that either the flyer was an inept.feminist troll, or aFamily Guy leghumper that takes Family Guy's offensive brand of humor at face value and thinks repeating the jokes automatically makes you funny and cool. It does not.