WTF homeschooling

[ElphabaGalinda]

Oh, I know. I was just chiming in on topic. Oddly, my sister didn't begin French until first grade and she's younger than me. I never could figure that one out. :think:

Here students don't begin French until grade 3 (this is Toronto) and only go to grade 9. In some other nearby districts (maybe york or peel?) They begin French in grade 4 and go to grade 9. I think it varies by school district. I think learning a second language is very valuable and I wish all children had the option, no matter what language.

I was in French Immersion, so did school only in French senior kindergarten to grade 2, and then started learning formal English in grade 3. Graduating highschool having completed the French Immersion program still benefits me to this day in applying for jobs.

[Maude]

Here students don't begin French until grade 3 (this is Toronto) and only go to grade 9. In some other nearby districts (maybe york or peel?) They begin French in grade 4 and go to grade 9. I think it varies by school district. I think learning a second language is very valuable and I wish all children had the option, no matter what language.

I was in French Immersion, so did school only in French senior kindergarten to grade 2, and then started learning formal English in grade 3. Graduating highschool having completed the French Immersion program still benefits me to this day in applying for jobs.

I didn't realize there was such a discrepancy. The school I went to also had French Immersion. We had a few students transfer over into the English classes around grades four of five-ish.

[Samantha]

Just adding my experience to the foriegn language discussion. I went to school in a very poor district and we did not have any foriegn language until 9th grade. We chould choose French or Spanish. But after the first year it was hard to get into the higher classes since the teacher who taught a higher level of Spanish also doubled as an English teacher.

And the first year Spanish teacher pretty much taught us Dim-Bulb-like Spanish. I was talking to my friend from Spain and he kept asking me what the hell I was saying and told me those words don't actually exist. Needless to say I was quite embarassed and saddened.

[dawbs]

Just adding my experience to the foriegn language discussion. I went to school in a very poor district and we did not have any foriegn language until 9th grade. We chould choose French or Spanish. But after the first year it was hard to get into the higher classes since the teacher who taught a higher level of Spanish also doubled as an English teacher.

And the first year Spanish teacher pretty much taught us Dim-Bulb-like Spanish. I was talking to my friend from Spain and he kept asking me what the hell I was saying and told me those words don't actually exist. Needless to say I was quite embarassed and saddened.

SImilar to ours, except our choice was Spanish or...Spanish.

I was in my 2nd year before I memorized, really, how to conjugate a verb. Some of that was me sliding, some of it was, really, it was that bad.

I was looking for options for my daughter and, truthfully, she may end up with the short stick on languages--there's one immersion school within an hour of my house and I live in the wrong district to get in (and I'd not be able to get her there if we did get in), no kids language classes that we can take, given the schedules in my house and the local school isn't going to offer anything until high-school.

What age would something like Rosetta stone actually become useful?

[MonkeyMomma]

Derail: is Ecce Romani the one that begins, "Ecce! In pictura es puella Romana nominae Flavia," or something like that? It's the only thing I remember form 8th grade Latin, which I was also (obviously) terrible at. /Derail.

[caito]

I went to public school in the south. We did not learn Latin or any other languages. We did not do math past Algebra. We did not read books that would help us discuss nihilism.

Wow, really? That's unfortunate :( When did you go to school? I graduated in 2006, my school offered four languages (French, German, Latin, and Spanish, I did two years of Spanish), and all sorts of crazy advanced math crap that I had no interest in at all. Yeah yeah, I know every district is different.

[aelar]

And the first year Spanish teacher pretty much taught us Dim-Bulb-like Spanish. I was talking to my friend from Spain and he kept asking me what the hell I was saying and told me those words don't actually exist. Needless to say I was quite embarassed and saddened.

Is it possible that your teacher was teaching you Mexican Spanish? Because it's pretty different from Castilian Spanish, especially in vocabulary, and of course there are some distinctive pronunciation differences.

I took Spanish in college and my teacher was very up front that he was teaching Mexican, -not- Castilian, both because he himself was Mexican, and also because in California most Spanish speakers wouldn't be able to understand Castilian without a lot of effort.

[YPestis]

It's one of the biggest issue facing public education in the US, this disparity in the education offered. We have some awesome schools and some horrible ones. It's one reason I can understand someone undertaking home education, when their school district is extremely poor and/or dangerous. I wish for a school system that provides education for everyone from cognitively delayed to gifted. I appreciate that my parents had the resources and foresight to move to a good school district. I feel I'm one of those students that was helped by a good educational system. It's so sad to hear of smart kids who never reach their potential because their parents were not able, or did not want to provide a good education for their children. It's just as sad to hear of special needs kids who do not receive therapy, although that is probably more the fault of parents than the school district these days.

[caito]

Is it possible that your teacher was teaching you Mexican Spanish? Because it's pretty different from Castilian Spanish, especially in vocabulary, and of course there are some distinctive pronunciation differences.

I took Spanish in college and my teacher was very up front that he was teaching Mexican, -not- Castilian, both because he himself was Mexican, and also because in California most Spanish speakers wouldn't be able to understand Castilian without a lot of effort.

This is true. My husband is from Costa Rica and sometimes gets seriously tripped up with slang from different Spanish-speaking countries, especially Mexico and Spain. He works with a lot of Mexicans and they use things that nobody else really uses. I'll ask him to translate something and he'll be like "Something something...I don't know wtf that shit is...something something something."

[pomology]

I am not bright at all

C'mon JFC. We've been over this. The only thing you've ever said that struck me as dumb was your complete insistence that you are not bright. You are an incredibly bright person, just not the kind of persona who fits the typical mold.

[pomology]

I went to public school in the south. We did not learn Latin or any other languages. We did not do math past Algebra. We did not read books that would help us discuss nihilism.

Normally I'm not one to defend the south, but in this case I need to. My mother went to public school in the south in the 50s and 60s. She learned French in high school and her high school offered at least one other language that I know of (German) and possibly more. She took calculus in high school. She read plenty of quality classical literature. Your school might not have been that great, but not all public schools in the south are terrible.

[SpeakNow]

I teach at a public high school in the south. Our school offers French, Spanish, and German.

[Wolfie]

Is it possible that your teacher was teaching you Mexican Spanish? Because it's pretty different from Castilian Spanish, especially in vocabulary, and of course there are some distinctive pronunciation differences.

I took Spanish in college and my teacher was very up front that he was teaching Mexican, -not- Castilian, both because he himself was Mexican, and also because in California most Spanish speakers wouldn't be able to understand Castilian without a lot of effort.

This.

My Spanish is all mixed up, because some of it is picked up from living and teaching in an area where there are a lot of Mexicans, but then the prof that I took Spanish from in college had grown up back and forth between Venezuela and Spain. He was honest about that and pointed out how things would be said in different Spanish speaking areas. I do tell my students when they laugh at my Spanish, that's it is because I learned from somebody from a different country from them, and I didn't learn untii I was an adult so I'll always have a little bit of an accent. (And some nod their heads when they think of the fact that their parents have an accent in English.)

[Samantha]

Is it possible that your teacher was teaching you Mexican Spanish? Because it's pretty different from Castilian Spanish, especially in vocabulary, and of course there are some distinctive pronunciation differences.

I took Spanish in college and my teacher was very up front that he was teaching Mexican, -not- Castilian, both because he himself was Mexican, and also because in California most Spanish speakers wouldn't be able to understand Castilian without a lot of effort.

Totally possible, but I couldn't find translations for half the words online either. Either way, she was not an effective teacher and should have told us about regional differences.

[DarkAnts]

My oldest niece is in 3ed grade. Her class has started to do pre algebra stuff. I dont remember doing that in 3ed grade. But then again, she is in a great charter school.

[YPestis]

My oldest niece is in 3ed grade. Her class has started to do pre algebra stuff. I dont remember doing that in 3ed grade. But then again, she is in a great charter school.

Great or not, doesn't that seem like the kids are doing math out of order? I thought stuff like fractions, percentages, long division, etc had to be covered before pre-algebra? Or did the school cover that already? :doh:

[emmiedahl]

JFC, it breaks my heart that you think you think you are dumb. You are at least as intelligent as I am, and I am about to get into medical shool God Willing. I believe in my sweet optimistic heart that someday we will sit at a pub and debate socialism vs. communism in person. Or, ya know, just have a few pints and a bit of raucous fun. Either way, I consider you a comrade, a friend, and an intellectual equal.

I went to school all over California and was never offered foreign language in a public school until high school. I went to a French-bilingual school for a while but it was private. In high school I was given my choice of French, Spanish or German, and only 2 years of each were offered. We did not have Calculus or Latin. fwiw, I don't think homeschooling parents should be required to offer more than the typical American school. But they should be offering at least that. I put a lot of effort into my children's education when we homeschooled and I still do... that should pay off or I am doing it wrong. And if I am doing it wrong, I need to know. Hence my support for testing and other means of regulating homeschooling parents.

[grateful1230]

I'm going to the library tomorrow to see if we have the Manga (Mango?) series. Thank you for the answers.

We have always lived in the South. I was educated in SC, which I believe is still ranked 48th out of 50. I was required to take French from 4th until 9th grade. When I went to high school (10-12) I took Spanish because I was far behind the kids from the other junior high in French.

I had to have 4 semesters of foriegn language to graduate. I can't recall how many credits of math I needed to graduate, but I am certain that I took Algebra I and II, Calc, Stats, and Calc II in high school. This was in the ebil public school.

My boys and I live in NC now, and they have to have the same amount of language and math to graduate high school. My eldest tested out of first year Spanish and is taking Spanish II. I'm not bragging though - I doubt he could get further than a bathroom and a restaurant if he needed to. Yet he gets straight A's. He is a bright student and gets by with as little as he can so that he can play sports. I don't admit that out of pride. It's just honest.

My younger two boys also get honor roll grades (and if I get one more note home about them talking in class....) They are both bored and smart. 5th grade, 11 year old boys. One of which is sleeping on my leg as I type. He had a bad dream and feels the need to hold my leg.

I had another point, besides the fact that we are and have been at least since 1997 required to have advanced math and language to graduate here in the dumb dirty south, but damned if I haven't forgotten to punctuate and forgotten my point. It must be that leg that's asleep now.

[Pudicitia]

I used the last Ecce Romani book, Domi Militiaeque, at a Scottish school in 4th or 5th year (when I was 14 or 15). I can't remember what the content was like, but I think we mostly used it and one other book for grammar exercises alongside reading original texts both excerpted in the book and in their own right. So it's not necessarily age inappropriate - it just depends which book in the series is being used and if anything else is supplementing it. But as a classicist, I'd be rather worried if *all*a 15 year-old was using was Ecce Romani!

[AmyP]

This sig is taken from a proud parent boasting about how her children are learning so well via the Maxwell methods.

What the fuck. I'm no brainbox and even I know Ecce Romani is for children. If I heard a 15 year old saying how she used Ecce Romani I'd think she was a wee bit held back in her development.

And the Oxford Guide to Writing. What. This is a 15yo who's spending her time changing babies' nappies, because there isn't a ten year old who would brag about Ecce Romani or the Oxford Guide. Unless they were functionally illiterate.

I'm going to sign on to a Christian homeschooling forum and my sig line is going to be "MY ARE KINDS NOW READIN BUKKES, TEH ARE READIIN BUKKES WIV BIG WORDES, TEH MUCH MORS CLEVRER THAN TEHY HETHINS".

:doh:

I only skimmed this thread, coming somewhat late in the game, so this may have been said already. These are not the Maxwell methods. I'm fairly sure that Maxwell curricula did not include those types of resources. The average 10 year old in the average American public school system has no access to Latin. Some high schools offer Latin. So, even though the Latin education she is trying to give her child is inferior to your education, it MAY, depending on the school system, be superior to the education her children would receive in her public school system. This sounds like a posting from a classical home educators forum. You may be wondering why these types of resources are considered exceptional because your education in Europe follows a traditional classical model. In America we have a different approach to curricula and education. Her choices are probably very different than what the schools in her area are using, and may be quite exceptional when she compares her choices to what is available to her in the public system. I don't know of any American public schools using Oxford University Press Materials of any kind, for example.

[snarkbillie]

Normally I'm not one to defend the south, but in this case I need to. My mother went to public school in the south in the 50s and 60s. She learned French in high school and her high school offered at least one other language that I know of (German) and possibly more. She took calculus in high school. She read plenty of quality classical literature. Your school might not have been that great, but not all public schools in the south are terrible.

I didn't mean for it to come off like I was talking about all schools in the south. I was just trying to share my high school experience because I think a lot of people assume that their experience is the same as everyone else's. Since mine was so different than what was being described I thought I would put it out there. I meant it only as a "not everyone gets super great educational opportunities". I think my high school was probably the bare minimum, some people get more. I don't think that my high school is a "good" one or even "adequate" if people want to go to college. I think maybe some of the fundies we snark on are comparing to schools like mine though. They may be "proud" because their child is learning a foreign language where the kids at the school down the road aren't. It's worthwhile to remember that different neighborhoods often have different school quality.

The elementary school at the neighborhood I grew up in does not have P.E., music, art, etc. The elementary school that is down the street has P.E., intramural sports, art, music, orchestra, drama, chess club, etc. These are two schools in the same city. They are both public schools. The difference within the district is vast.

[Peas n carrots]

Id like to put in my 2 cents regarding foreign languages etc here.

It's all very dependent on the school district, and I believe that rural vs suburban vs urban makes a massive difference. I went to a rural school in Nebraska (80 kids TOTAL grades 9-12). We were only offered 2 years of foreign language, and we did not have a teacher so it was all done via correspondence course. One day a week a grad student from the University of Nebraska would have a conference call with us. As we were generally unsupervised, we screwed around. I learned more Spanish working with Mexican immigrants than I did at school. Also, no AP classes of any type, one computer class, one art class...half the teachers teaching non core classes taught on a part time basis. Science was a joke...the funding was so low that we only did 2-3 experiments a year. This was in the 90's...so not that long ago.

My younger sibs ended up going to school in a much larger district, and had multiple AP classes, had access to German and Spanish from middle school age (and youngest sib had Spanish from K on up), fully stocked labs (had their own cadaver!!!). I'm jealous that they had access to classes and activities I never had a chance to have.

I'd also like to note the school my sibs attended/still attend is in a town with a small college, so a lot of kids in town come from very educated families, probably more so than the average small Nebraska town. I think that is reflected in the school's curriculum. My school was in a very rural area that had an aging population who didn't want to see their taxes raised ever....and I think those priorities were reflected in my school as well.

[quinoa mama]

This looks like a signature on a Well Trained Mind forum. A lot of people over there include their children's ages and a general list of the curriculum they are using in their signature. It's not to brag, but to give their fellow forum posters an idea of who they are talking to. Another poster could see her list and know what they have in common when it comes to discussing homeschooling issues. When I homeschooled I used to post over there, and I had a signature like that. Instead of listing all our science resources, I might just say we are studying biology that year. Or I might list the main resource, but it was always more involved than just one book. An enormous list that includes everything would be too hard to skim. Again, it's not supposed to be about bragging. It's a very general summary to make conversation easier.

[GiGi_41]

Is it possible that your teacher was teaching you Mexican Spanish? Because it's pretty different from Castilian Spanish, especially in vocabulary, and of course there are some distinctive pronunciation differences.

I took Spanish in college and my teacher was very up front that he was teaching Mexican, -not- Castilian, both because he himself was Mexican, and also because in California most Spanish speakers wouldn't be able to understand Castilian without a lot of effort.

Ha..when I took Spanish in high school in San Diego, our teacher taught us Castilian Spanish. Half my class was Mexican and they struggled with the class because of the pronunciations and grammar of formal Spanish. I remember the teacher getting so flustered because the students would talk around her in Mexican and refuse to use formal tense? I also remember thinking..why aren't they teaching us the Spanish dialect I need to know how to speak...I live in San Diego, not Spain!

[amydamy]

They offered languages but we weren't required to take them. They offered AP algebra but nothing further. I went to an inner city school. I think they were just happy if we didn't drop out. I think they call them 'drop out factories' now. The current requirement is "3 years of math" it can be three years of general math if that's what it takes to get them out with a diploma. Most of the students in my high school had to do remedial classes when/if they tried to go to college. I heard they don't offer AP classes anymore because it costs too much money and not enough people try to take them.

There isn't an AP algebra exam so if they offered an AP math class it was calc. I'm curious was state you're talking about because College Board has several state initiatives to assist low income school districts with teaching and and tests fees.