WTF homeschooling

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Calculus at 14 (if that's what "Calc" is) is pretty good it seems to me. I didn't learn calculus until the second grade of high school, mainly in the third grade (years 11 and 12 of school, around age 17).

Apologia textbooks are what horrify me on those lists. THAT is worth a google or two.

[freejoytoo]

I took Latin at school - we had the Cambridge Readers' Guide.

[snarkbillie]

I went to public school in the south. We did not learn Latin or any other languages. We did not do math past Algebra. We did not read books that would help us discuss nihilism.

[Sherlockiana]

These look more like the kind of thing I read in my spare time, not a school curriculum. I'd really like to see how these fundies measure up to your average public school student because my money is that they're all at least two or three grades behind, if not more.

What kind of money are we talking about? Because I was homeschooled through junior high (with what you might call "fundie" parents) and into highschool and did independent study for most of highschool. I was third in my class in highschool (yes, they include grades of independent study students), read voraciously, and went to college when I was 18. There, I graduated summa cum laude with a degree in environmental science and went on to graduate school. I am now in my last year of graduate school and will be receiving my PhD in Botanical Sciences next August.

It is quite frustrating that you would go from "this mom has a crappy curriculum" to "all homeschooled teenagers are behind in grades and turn out to be idiots". That is just rude.

[dawbs]

What kind of money are we talking about? Because I was homeschooled through junior high (with what you might call "fundie" parents) and into highschool and did independent study for most of highschool. I was third in my class in highschool (yes, they include grades of independent study students), read voraciously, and went to college when I was 18. There, I graduated summa cum laude with a degree in environmental science and went on to graduate school. I am now in my last year of graduate school and will be receiving my PhD in Botanical Sciences next August.

It is quite frustrating that you would go from "this mom has a crappy curriculum" to "all homeschooled teenagers are behind in grades and turn out to be idiots". That is just rude.

I think you're having a 'protest to much' moment.

Since the person who posted it said "these fundies" in the sentence before, "All" would refer to "all the people being talked about in the OP--'these fundies', this particular clan educated via Maxwell driven homeschool drivel".

"All" would NOT refer to a universal "everyone who has ever been home schooled, past, present and future"

[Maude]

What kind of money are we talking about? Because I was homeschooled through junior high (with what you might call "fundie" parents) and into highschool and did independent study for most of highschool. I was third in my class in highschool (yes, they include grades of independent study students), read voraciously, and went to college when I was 18. There, I graduated summa cum laude with a degree in environmental science and went on to graduate school. I am now in my last year of graduate school and will be receiving my PhD in Botanical Sciences next August.

It is quite frustrating that you would go from "this mom has a crappy curriculum" to "all homeschooled teenagers are behind in grades and turn out to be idiots". That is just rude.

Please tell me where I said that because I don't recall saying it at all. I know that there are children who receive a decent home education. My issue is with those we talk about here and how they really measure up with the so-called 'evil' public school children.

ETA: Thank you, Dawbs.

[emmiedahl]

I copied a couple more from that forum.

By US standards, the 14 yo and 16 yo seem advanced.

A lot of homeschooling moms on boards list the curriculum they use in their signature because people always are changing curriculum and looking for something better. So you know who to ask if you are thinking about Teaching Textbooks for math, for example. The more intellectual homeschooling moms are on a constant quest for better math and science, in particular. It's not generally bragging, although I am sure in some cases it is.

Catholic wife and mom with seven children: one in college, two partially homeschooling high school, three after-schooling elementary, and one in preschool...homeschooling since 1997...also part-time German and Spanish teacher and learning Swedish

Homeschooling books and programs I love: RightStart Math, Saxon Phonics, Story of the World, Seton readers, Learn Spanish with Grace, Handwriting Without Tears, Math [You] See, Khan Academy

I liked Math U See for younger children, fwiw. Several of the listed books are specific Christian curriculum. And I cannot often enough express my dislike of Saxon. But it is used in public schools also so I will give her a pass. It is too repetitive and time-consuming in my opinion and soooo dry.

Homeschooling 11th, 8th, 4th, 2nd, and 1st, w/ 3yo tagging along

Using TOG Y4, Writing Aids, Rod & Staff Grammar, FLL, Phonics Pathways, ETC, VfCR, Singapore Earlybird and Primary Math, Life of Fred Elementary, Life of Fred Beginning Algebra, LoF Advanced Algebra and Trig., Visual Latin I/II, Classical Rhetoric, Traditional Logic II, God and the History of Art, Signs and Seasons Classical Astronomy, Apologia Physics

Sounds decent overall, but they lose me at Apologia. :/ Other homeschooling moms will know what I mean by that.

I'm not trying to be rude but what the fuck is there to be proud of here? (I am also confused by God and the History of Art but I hope an artistic FJist can explain this to me?)

God and the History of Art is yet another homeschooling curriculum that focuses on the subject from a "Godly" perspective. Which means, no nekkid Michelangelo or anything like that.

As for proud, like I said, this is something they all do in their signatures. I am proud of the job I did homeschooling; it was very challenging but I did a damn fine job and my kids re-entered the public school system far beyond grade level in all subjects. Generally, the religious homeschooling moms suck because they think they are doing this great thing simply by keeping the kids away from eebil schools. But more secular homeschoolers tend to get a real world-class education, and they are also more likely to re-enter the public school system at some point because the parents are obsessed with giving them the very best. Sometimes traditional school *is* the very best. Like with calculus and lab sciences.

[emmiedahl]

I think you're having a 'protest to much' moment.

Since the person who posted it said "these fundies" in the sentence before, "All" would refer to "all the people being talked about in the OP--'these fundies', this particular clan educated via Maxwell driven homeschool drivel".

"All" would NOT refer to a universal "everyone who has ever been home schooled, past, present and future"

Yeah, she specifically said "fundies". Not "all homeschoolers".

If you are a great homeschooling mom, it can be hard when you are constantly lumped in with homeschoolers who suck. And those sucky homeschoolers might get homeschooling taken off the table as an option, which will be horrible for the many homeschoolers who are getting a great education.

My general approach is to explain the culture, explain what I did, and throw those fundie bitches under the bus. They suck. Being defensive of them does not help because what they are doing is not defensible. So, newbie who comes in like a bitchy bat out of hell, if you have a problem then your best approach is to explain what you are doing differently.

Secular homeschoolers make up a decent chunk of the homeschooling community and we need to be clear that we disapprove of piss-poor religion-based homeschooling. Because these kids are going to grow up to be cretins and then homeschooling will be made illegal. I don't want that; I want for *bad* irresponsible homeschooling to be made illegal.

[grateful1230]

To Emmie: (and other homeschooling parents)

I know you aren't currently homeschooling, however I'm fairly certain you have a better idea of a good source than me. We moved here a year and a half ago from a city where they taught Spanish from K-5. My younger two were in 3rd when we moved, and there is not a foriegn language offered until middle school. I've got Rosetta Stone, and neither boy is interested in the least. I am currently (as I type) torturing them with the videos, as I have been since we moved. They hate this series. Any ideas?

P.S. Doesn't have to be Spanish, I just felt like they had a head start on that language and I could keep them on track until they are in 6th grade.

[snarkbillie]

To Emmie: (and other homeschooling parents)

I know you aren't currently homeschooling, however I'm fairly certain you have a better idea of a good source than me. We moved here a year and a half ago from a city where they taught Spanish from K-5. My younger two were in 3rd when we moved, and there is not a foriegn language offered until middle school. I've got Rosetta Stone, and neither boy is interested in the least. I am currently (as I type) torturing them with the videos, as I have been since we moved. They hate this series. Any ideas?

P.S. Doesn't have to be Spanish, I just felt like they had a head start on that language and I could keep them on track until they are in 6th grade.

My local library has a deal with Mango languages where we can learn languages for free with a library account. Even if your library doesn't have it, it's pretty cheap. We like it a lot. We even took a course in "pirate" for talk like a pirate day. They have a ton of actual languages too. We're learning French.

[emmiedahl]

I don't really know because my kids LOVED Rosetta Stone. Between that and living in an area that is heavily Latino/a, we can speak it pretty well.

[B5SnowDog]

I went to public school in the south. We did not learn Latin or any other languages. We did not do math past Algebra. We did not read books that would help us discuss nihilism.

How long ago was this? I went to public school in Texas in the mid-'90s and took 3 years of Spanish; the other language options were German, Latin, and French. They also offered algebra, trig, pre-calc, and calculus.

[Wolfie]

Pretty much all high schools in CA have multiple language options, and have for decades- it's a requirment for UC and CSU entry. My school was unusual, at varying times when I was there there was Spanish, French, German, Russian, Latin, Italian and Mandarin.

[snarkbillie]

How long ago was this? I went to public school in Texas in the mid-'90s and took 3 years of Spanish; the other language options were German, Latin, and French. They also offered algebra, trig, pre-calc, and calculus.

They offered languages but we weren't required to take them. They offered AP algebra but nothing further. I went to an inner city school. I think they were just happy if we didn't drop out. I think they call them 'drop out factories' now. The current requirement is "3 years of math" it can be three years of general math if that's what it takes to get them out with a diploma. Most of the students in my high school had to do remedial classes when/if they tried to go to college. I heard they don't offer AP classes anymore because it costs too much money and not enough people try to take them.

[JesusFightClub]

What kind of money are we talking about? Because I was homeschooled through junior high (with what you might call "fundie" parents) and into highschool and did independent study for most of highschool. I was third in my class in highschool (yes, they include grades of independent study students), read voraciously, and went to college when I was 18. There, I graduated summa cum laude with a degree in environmental science and went on to graduate school. I am now in my last year of graduate school and will be receiving my PhD in Botanical Sciences next August.

It is quite frustrating that you would go from "this mom has a crappy curriculum" to "all homeschooled teenagers are behind in grades and turn out to be idiots". That is just rude.

I definitely don't think all homeschooled kids are idiots and I reckon neither does Maude. Homeschoolers may well be super bright and learning well, I believe they are (if I get reincarnated let it be as one of clibbyjo's kids, awesome and homeschooled! Or emmiedahl's kids. Because, emmiedahl.) However, the brag level of this particular homeschooler is, er, nonexistent. A 15 year old on Ecce Romani and the Oxford Guide? WTF ever, but I'd not be boasting if I was her mummy.

I suppose what I'm trying to get at is why the pride? Why do they think they're doing better at teaching than public school teachers are because their kids are studying rather basic books or books with an enormous amount of bias? I could raise kids on a constant diet of Maths For The Slow, the Minimanual of the Urban Guerrilla and Marx in German. And if I so desired I could get someone to half-heartedly teach the basics of artistic perspective and someone else to explain to them scientifically why shit asplode when you combine it in certain proportions. Would anyone think that was a reasonable curriculum which puts state school kids to shame?

[ADoyle90815]

When I went to high school in California, foreign languages were a requirement for transferring to a UC or CSU school. From what I remember about my high school is there was French, Spanish, German, and Latin. Our district's Polytechnic high school did offer Russian and Mandarin from what I remember, as part of one of their magnet programs.

As far as homeschooling goes, not all children are being taught by idiots who don't want their special snowflakes exposed to the world outside their religious bubble. I've gotten to know some secular homeschooled students in college, and they were really intelligent people.

[Wolfie]

Why do they think they're doing better at teaching than public school teachers are because their kids are studying rather basic books or books with an enormous amount of bias? I could raise kids on a constant diet of Maths For The Slow, the Minimanual of the Urban Guerrilla and Marx in German. And if I so desired I could get someone to half-heartedly teach the basics of artistic perspective and someone else to explain to them scientifically why shit asplode when you combine it in certain proportions. Would anyone think that was a reasonable curriculum which puts state school kids to shame?

Because public schools are bashed in the media here, and everybody thinks that they know better than teachers.

(I'm just feeling torn down by the media, district and general public, and a union meeting yesterday didn't help except that so many of us are feeling this way, and also have issues with getting people to believe what is happening is really happening. Our district won't even chip in $25 more a month to help with our insurance. Heck, they are refusing to even let the teachers take a payroll deduction in order to add a different kind of insurance, even though it would all be out of the teachers' pockets and not the district's. AND they are talking about asking us to take 5 furlough days. And our pay has gone down more than 8% in the last 5 years.)

[B5SnowDog]

I heard they don't offer AP classes anymore because it costs too much money and not enough people try to take them.

That's a real shame.

[treemom]

Our kids don't get any foreign language until 8th grade and then they have to qualify for it and it is only Spanish. The high schools have a bigger selection. But it is frustrating.

[smores]

I have good and bad knowledge of charter schools. I think the concept could be executed far better if there was just more oversight in a lot of areas. That said, I attended an elite magnet school. I know a lot of people look down on charter and magnet schools as further eroding the school system, but the spots at my magnet school were never full, and they provided a level of education that the district could not have offered district-wide. Would it have been better for myself and my classmates to not be even given a choice?

On the other hand, I have seen many charter and magnet schools close in the same district. Usually those charter schools were alternative style schools for children with disciplinary or low achievement issues, and it turns out that PARENTS are typically more problematic than the students. There is such an attitude of "it's your problem now" in the schools that it leaves teachers and administrators in a bind, because their disciplinary measures mean little to nothing to the kids. I feel badly for teachers now; I wouldn't want to do it. My sister does, but she has lucked out into a job at a great school with lots of parental support and administrators supporting teachers.

[Arete]

In my niece's district they start them (for foreign languages) in Grade 5, but requirements from state to state vary so much and it's no laughing matter.

[Maude]

We started learning French in Kindergarten and it was a required class through to ninth grade. I think all children should have the benefit of being exposed to at least one foreign tongue.

[Arete]

We started learning French in Kindergarten and it was a required class through to ninth grade. I think all children should have the benefit of being exposed to at least one foreign tongue.

Yes, but Canada has two official languages. Technically on paper, the US does not have an official language. BTW, I am in total agreement that children need to speak at least one other language fluently.

[YPestis]

I think the upthread poster had it correct that fundie homeschoolers really start losing ground in the middle and high school grades. Most adults have a solid grasp of elementary maths and and can use "life experiences" to teach (i.e reading a story book to facilitate reading, writing a letter to teach penmanship). Once you get into physics and Shakespeare, you can't do that anymore. There's so much more studying and sit down lectures in order to understand those subjects plus a teacher that has mastery of that subject.

I really dislike it when fundies pretend that their every day activity covers advanced courses and are yet oh so practical. They talk about how cooking is chemistry or gardening is biology. Well, there are lessons culled from those activities but it's not even close to a complete curriculum and it's laughable to think cooking and gardening can fulfill core science requirements, even at the middle school level.

Furthermore, I don't think there's anything 'braggable' about doing something that everyone also does. I mean, what's the point of bragging about taking geometry in the 9th grade or reading "To Kill a Mockingbird" in the 8th grade? Millions of kids are doing that at the same grade level at the same time. Maybe it's just the way parenting is going, that we have to show our pride at everything our children does. My SO and I both agreed we wouldn't be those annoying parents with "my kid is an honor student at blah blah middle school" sticker on the car. Assuming our kids are of average intelligence, making honor roll at that point is hardly worth shoveling it into other people's faces. :lol:

[Maude]

Yes, but Canada has two official languages. Technically on paper, the US does not have an official language. BTW, I am in total agreement that children need to speak at least one other language fluently.

Oh, I know. I was just chiming in on topic. Oddly, my sister didn't begin French until first grade and she's younger than me. I never could figure that one out. :think:

I think the upthread poster had it correct that fundie homeschoolers really start losing ground in the middle and high school grades. Most adults have a solid grasp of elementary maths and and can use "life experiences" to teach (i.e reading a story book to facilitate reading, writing a letter to teach penmanship). Once you get into physics and Shakespeare, you can't do that anymore. There's so much more studying and sit down lectures in order to understand those subjects plus a teacher that has mastery of that subject.

I really dislike it when fundies pretend that their every day activity covers advanced courses and are yet oh so practical. They talk about how cooking is chemistry or gardening is biology. Well, there are lessons culled from those activities but it's not even close to a complete curriculum and it's laughable to think cooking and gardening can fulfill core science requirements, even at the middle school level.

Furthermore, I don't think there's anything 'braggable' about doing something that everyone also does. I mean, what's the point of bragging about taking geometry in the 9th grade or reading "To Kill a Mockingbird" in the 8th grade? Millions of kids are doing that at the same grade level at the same time. Maybe it's just the way parenting is going, that we have to show our pride at everything our children does. My SO and I both agreed we wouldn't be those annoying parents with "my kid is an honor student at blah blah middle school" sticker on the car. Assuming our kids are of average intelligence, making honor roll at that point is hardly worth shoveling it into other people's faces. :lol:

I agree. We have professionals for a reason.