People who get AIDS deserve it - WTF?

[luckylibrarian]

A FB friend of mine posted this article on Facebook: http://news.yahoo.com/aids-evidence-bac ... 27768.html

The gist of the article is that the circumcision campaign in Africa generally has been successful and that without it, they think AIDS infection rates would be significantly higher.

In response to my friend's link, one person wrote: "If you only have sex with your spouse, aids isn't an issue. Gee, God's way is best? Go figure!"

My friend rightly called him on it and reminded him that there are a whole host of reasons why someone could get AIDS, such as through blood transfusions, mother-to-child transmission, etc. and that he basically was saying people who have unprotected, premarital sex deserve to get AIDS. I'm not sure what that has to do with a circumcision campaign, but whatever. He must think that no one should do anything to prevent the spread of AIDS because it's God's punishment.

He responded by denying that he is saying that people with AIDS deserve it (Bullshit!) and tried to compare it to this: "I'm also not an advocate of giving a driver a radar detector and telling him or her not to speed."

Huh? :doh: Can anyone make sense of this metaphor?

[Deleted05]

I think "radar detector" = condom, and "telling him or her not to speed" = no ring. no whoopie. It's the old "if you give them birth control they'll just have more sex" argument.

[GenerationCedarchip]

I grew up hearing the AIDS=judgment of God because you've been bad crap back in the late 80s/90s, but I thought that went out along with people learning that you can't get AIDS from shaking hands and so on. Ugh.

As a side note, my older sister/cousin (cousin adopted by my parents) contracted AIDS from a blood transfusion at age 16 and died horribly, so people who spout this judgment garbage make me downright stabby. I have some not very good(and also some downright crazy) memories of my family's old fundie church, but one good thing they did was to circle the wagons around my cousin when she was sick.

[Jencendiary]

My only response to that idiotic line of reasoning starts at 1:55 of this video:

That said, a very dear friend of mine (who was during his lifetime a homosexual) passed from AIDS some years ago. And when I hear this preening, proud, pious bragging shit, I get stabby. People who have HIV & AIDS are not bad people. They are just sick. No matter HOW someone was infected, treating them as if they are a leper or subhuman makes you a stupid asshole.

[Burris]

Can anyone make sense of this metaphor?

Translation (for the friend of a friend's comment): "Anything that might get in the way of transmitting AIDS - condoms, circumcision, etc. - is exactly equivalent to how a radar-detector allows speeders to circumvent lawful penalties.

"Moreover, I'm an idiot who won't let facts get in the way of my studied ignorance. And be sure to 'unfriend' me, because I'm also a waste of air and time."

[luckylibrarian]

Thank you, Burris. I'm not fluent in Ignorant Douchebag.

[demgirl]

We should only treat diseases that people get through no fault, mistakes or errors of their own. Sage wisdom.

[shesinsane]

AIDS first emerged as a gay mans' disease (women were diagnosed with ARC, AIDS Related Complex), so those that were anti-gay were quick to blame the lifestyles and behaviors of the victims. It's sort of like ignoring a person suffering from lung cancer because they smoked for decades. There emerged two classes of AIDS victims: "The innocents" were children born with AIDS, people who got it from blood transfusions, people that got it from their cheating spouses. Normal people like you and me who had the bad luck to get exposed to this horrible virus. The rest of people with AIDS, those that got it from IV drug use or sex, well, if they weren't doing those bad things they wouldn't have gotten sick. A church might turn their backs on a member of the congregation who came, but could easily support the little boy with hemophilia that got some tainted blood*.

Personally I don't agree that some AIDS sufferers deserve it more. Very few people do anything to deserve to waste away from a cat disease.

*Once everyone knew how AIDS was transmitted, the innocents could be pitied. Back when people weren't sure if mosquitos could transmit the AIDS virus, the townsfolk burned down Ryan White's family home because their son wanted to go to public school.

[LynnKaboom]

So I guess all those little kids in Africa who got AIDS from their moms deserved it? Goddamn, what a fucked-up worldview.

[shesinsane]

So I guess all those little kids in Africa who got AIDS from their moms deserved it? Goddamn, what a fucked-up worldview.

No, the little kids in Africa who got AIDS from their moms are the innocent AIDS victims. They deserve all the love and compassion there is, but the moms that gave them AIDS are a bunch of diseased whores. God Bess. ;)

[Brainsample]

This facebook guy should get in touch with EllaJac, the lady with her kids in beds in the closet who also thinks that vaccinating kids in Africa might not be a good idea, because they have low life expectancies. And that Bill Gates isn't so much interested in a decent quality of life of people in Africa, but he's only trying to limit population growth. And we all know that having 15 pregnacies glorifies God more than just two or three pregnancies does. Or that the woman in Africa willfully chooses to not use contraception because she desires to have all of those pregnancies.

Is there an emotocon with a smiley that is so baffled that their head blows up?

[liltwinstar]

I could be wrong, but I thought that one of the many reasons that AIDS is so common in Africa is because of rape. So that's really nice - to say that people who have been sexually brutalized deserve AIDS because they're not following God's plan. Nice.

[ladypuglover]

What about those rare cases I heard about a very long time ago, that there were some people who got HIV with no known cause. Maybe that's an urban legend, but could there be truth in it?

Also way back when I had my blood transfusion for my scoliosis surgery, they were just begining to test blood for HIV. Lucky for me I had it Chidren's Hospital but other area hospitals didn't test back then. I had to be tested for HIV for years. Would I at 13 deserve Aids or any other child needing surgery back then? I never even kissed a boy or anything else...

What about the faithful spouses who find out they got HIV from a wandering husband or wife? They did everything they could but thanks to a cheating spouse they have a death sentence. Do they desrve it?

Again, I know where to hide the body... not that I ever have had to.

[Jessica]

"If you only have sex with your spouse, aids isn't an issue. Gee, God's way is best? Go figure!"

Well, assuming your spouse hasn't been raped by someone infected by AIDS...

And yeah, I'm sure the little boy with hemophilia who got a bad blood transfusion deserved AIDS. Yes, it happens. When we learned about AIDS in school it was talking about the many ways you can get it and they interviewed a boy that his happened to. They didn't screen the donated blood carefully and at a very young age (I think he was around 11?) he had AIDS.

[emmiedahl]

From what I have read, it is not uncommon for men in Africa to go to cities for work. They come home every few months and often come home with HIV, from prostitutes. They give this to their wives, who are more likely to catch it because of the practice of dry sex which is very popular in many African cultures and the fact that condom use is taboo.

The women who catch it are victims of patriarchy, as are the children who catch it from them. How is it their fault? They are following "God's Way" in submitting to their husbands and not using contraception. Add to that the fact that many men in Africa believe that sex with a virgin is a cure for AIDS. So they will rape a young girl out of desperation. More victims of patriarchy, in which men get to do whatever they want regardless of the death count.

AIDS is a serious issue. I had a family member who died from it. She was not gay or an intravenous drug user or promiscuous.

If you want to see how patriarchy works in practice, check out Africa. It's not pretty.

[Eclipse]

I had to take a looong break after reading this. Very, very long.

So someone's whose spouse cheats on them but he or she remains faithful deserves it? The babies who born with it deserve it? Girls and women who are raped deserve it? Cases were a 3 month old baby has been raped because of the mistaken belief that sex with a virgin cures AIDs deserved it? My haemophiliac cousin, who at 11 contracted HIV through tainted blood products in the 1980s, deserved it?

If anyone who expressed such an opinion had ever watched anyone die of AIDS they would never say such a thing. No one deserves it. It is not an easy death, or a quick one. And if they have and still continue to advocates such a sentiment, then they are not Christian.

Edited to remove foul language.

[HowRude]

Thank you all for pointing out that there are other ways to get AIDS because I've personally heard so many close minded people they always say they're gay or thats what you get for being gay.

[Jencendiary]

I'm kind of getting itchy about this subtext that "My friend/family member was so virtuous (and not a homosexual or a slut) and got AIDS anyway. So he/she shouldn't be subject to the criticism," going in this thread. Sexually active people & gay folks deserve the same respect you'd accord anyone else.

[luckylibrarian]

If the only way a person could get AIDS was from being gay, that still doesn't justify the "they deserved it" attitude. (I know no one here is saying that, but I wanted to put that out there anyway.)

This has been enlightening, to some extent. My husband's step-brother is gay and HIV+ and dying of soft tissue cancer from years of cigarette smoking. It never occurred to me that someone probably has told him that he deserved it.

ETA: what Jencendiary said. If my initial post contributed to that subtext, that wasn't what I meant at all.

[Eclipse]

I'm kind of getting itchy about this subtext that "My friend/family member was so virtuous (and not a homosexual or a slut) and got AIDs anyway. So he/she shouldn't be subject to the criticism," going in this thread. Sexually active people & gay folks deserve the same respect you'd accord anyone else.

I sorry if there was any sort of subtext to my message. I was just using an example of someone I knew who got AIDs. No one deserves getting AIDS, which was what I was trying to convey. i personally don't think there is anything wrong with people being sexually active or being gay and hoped I didn't give that impression. I wanted to point out that people outside those groups can become infected with AIDS. It has nothing to do with one's virtue or whatever.

I fully believe that it was the homophobia and false moral superiority that was prevalent int he 1980s (and still exists today) regarding the disease that allowed the AIDS pandemic to reach the horrific levels it has reached and delayed finding treatments and possible cures for it.

[Alecto]

I think the fact is simply this: There are a myriad of ways people get HIV. No one gets HIV on purpose. Therefore, people need to STFU and GTFO and stop acting like they are morally superior because the don't have it.

[Patsy]

No one gets HIV on purpose.

Well. There's bug-catchers.

[emmiedahl]

I did not mean to imply that only the fundie approved AIDS victims deserve sympathy. I read my post and realized that could easily be read into what I wrote. No one deserves that disease, my point was that many of the people suffering with it are doing so because they obeyed the rules of patriarchy.

If you have hot anal with a new man every night and use no protection, it's really not my business. It does not make your suffering less painful or make you less deserving of empathy and medical treatment.

[ladypuglover]

I didn't mean to imply that gay people deserve HIV either. I was pointing out that not all people get Aids from sex but blew it. I'm sorry.

[Kelya]

This is one of the reasons I love FJ, I can start being like WTF at the beginning of a thread, then on the next page see everyone rereading and rethinking and restating and generally being awesome!