"I Kissed Dating Goodbye" author is crowdfunding a documentary on the impact of his book

[CyborgKin]

On 12/07/2017 at 3:30 PM, Jellybean said:

(I lost count of the number of times people prayed for my healing and then later asked me if I had some unconfessed sin in my life). 

I've known some who ask beforehand.

[Palimpsest]

11 hours ago, Jasmar said:

ETA, Josh attended public high school, and was active in the youth group at the very large evangelical church they attended then. He's the same age as a very close friend who knew him there, went to high school together, etc. she graduated in the mid-90s.

Are you sure because the bolded contradicts the long-term Harris story that Josh and the other kids were all home-schooled.  

This was his bio at age 22 from Homeschool world:

Quote

 

Joshua Harris
Former columnist for Practical Homeschooling Magazine.

Joshua Harris, age 22, was homeschooled his entire life. His book I Kissed Dating Goodbye is the best-selling book for Christian young adults in the country.

 

 http://www.home-school.com/Articles/columnists/joshua-harris.php

And this article is from 1997.  http://www.home-school.com/Articles/thanks-mom-dad.php 

[Jasmar]

11 hours ago, Anonymousguest said:

Last I heard Gregg was attending Hinson Baptist Church.

As of two years ago one of his sons was a/the worship leader there. He came into the local coffee shop then and had a long conversation with the owner...who is a member of the hipster church I've mentioned. And Hinson was renting space to that church at one point, but not while Gregg was there (at the hipster church).

3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Are you sure because the bolded contradicts the long-term Harris story that Josh and the other kids were all home-schooled.  

This was his bio at age 22 from Homeschool world:

 http://www.home-school.com/Articles/columnists/joshua-harris.php

And this article is from 1997.  http://www.home-school.com/Articles/thanks-mom-dad.php 

I'll double check with my friend. I'm sure she said he went to the local high school that she attended, but maybe I confused his participation in the high school youth group with attending the school. Thinking about it, that's definitely a possibility. 

[Anonymousguest]

Josh was definitely homeschooled, no question. 

I believe Joel is still the worship leader at Hinson, he was this winter anyway. Which hipster church is it, just out of curiousity? I am seeing a friend who attends Hinson tonight actually, I'll ask which Harrises are still there. At one time his daughter was there too, and possibly Brett and Ana (who are now in the desert somewhere, NV, NM?

[Anonymousguest]

No Harrises at Hinson, lol.

[BobTheWalrus]

Every bio I've ever read about josh says he was homeschooled. I can't imagine he went to public high school, because his parents were deeply into pushing the expansion of home schooling as a tool for Christians to protect their children and be set apart from the world. They had a newsletter to encourage families, and I've also read his book about the christian home school, which is a how-to guide. It has loads of family anecdotes about the kids.

[louisa05]

On 7/12/2017 at 6:09 PM, seraaa said:

I'm not sure why this surprises me, but that is awful. I'm sorry.

That is pretty standard stuff in neo-pentecostal/charismatic circles and in a lot of evangelical circles where the Prosperity Gospel in all of its evil interpretations has snuck into the ideology. Anything wrong in a person's life is caused by "not being right with God" which must mean you have "hidden sins" that you may not even know about yourself. If you are "right with God", you will have health, wealth, happiness and basically be perfect. 

A brief list of things in my life that I was told were caused by "hidden sins" that I needed to repent from as a teacher at Christian school: 

*Seasonal allergies

*Frequent respiratory illnesses (except when I left their high stress environment and moldy building, that basically stopped)

*My inability to catch gum chewers in class who were not being obvious

*Problems with my very old car

*My lack of money to buy a new car (being paid poverty wages clearly had nothing to do with that)

*Kids quitting play casts at the last minute (because it had nothing to do with the parents or kids being irresponsible)

*My inability to grade and return 50 research papers in 24 hours while teaching all day and rehearsing a play every evening. 

I could keep going, but you would all get bored eventually. 

 

[seraaa]

@louisa05 Ohh, the Prosperity Gospel again. Everything I hear or read about that seems only to be trouble. 

I'm sorry your job treated you in that manner.

[louisa05]

41 minutes ago, seraaa said:

@louisa05 Ohh, the Prosperity Gospel again. Everything I hear or read about that seems only to be trouble. 

I'm sorry your job treated you in that manner.

I worked there straight out of college. I was still trying to find my way as a young teacher. This stuff was downright abusive, spiritually and emotionally. I left 17 years ago and still struggle with what happened to me there (this is just the tip of the iceberg from six years of being daily told I did not measure up in their eyes or the eyes of God). I am an active member of my Catholic parish now, but there are still things that trigger me and cause an anxiety response. My husband and I teach confirmation class to middle schoolers. At our retreat with them this spring at the beginning of the day, the leader played a video of a song that was often sang at Christian school chapel and tried to get the kids to sing along and do actions/dance. They were not enthusiastic (because middle schoolers are self conscious and Catholic kids are not used to that type of thing in a church setting). She played it over and over and started imploring and begging and telling them they had to in order to "get into the worship feel of the day". I was already uncomfortable, but when she started the begging and calling it "worship", my chest got tight and I felt panicky and I had to leave the room. Because that is the exact lecture and guilt trip that was used in every single chapel at Christian school on the students and teachers who were not physically expressive during the music. Putting it together with the repeating of one of the songs they used was too much for me. 

 

[Jasmar]

I was definitely mixed up about high school. Apologies! The rest is accurate though.

Anonymius Guest, I'm happy to talk about the hipster church via PM. I've already said enough that people knowing me could figure out who I was, and that makes me a little uncomfortable,

[L1o2u3]

I can understand that people are confused whether he went to public school or not. In his book, he never even mentioned once that he was homeschooled. And there are refences in there like "in junior high", "In high school" etc. I wouldn't know based on this book that he was homeschooled but I would think that he went to public school. Only in the about the author section it says that he wrote articles for a homeschool magazine. 

And I think it's so weird that he named his son Joshua. 

[Jasmar]

I just had a memory mistake, increasingly a thing at my age. My friend never said he went to high school, just that he was very active in the HS youth group at the semi-mega church they attended. Pre-HoF, of course.

The hypocrisy comes out of his having been one of the bigwigs at the (very large) youth groups just before Gregg decided that such things were evil.

[desertvixen]

@louisa05, was it a Catholic-only retreat?  Because that's just not really our style. (says the lapsed Catholic who cringed at Guitar Masses).

I'm sorry you had a horrible experience with that school - glad you got out!

[louisa05]

26 minutes ago, desertvixen said:

@louisa05, was it a Catholic-only retreat?  Because that's just not really our style. (says the lapsed Catholic who cringed at Guitar Masses).

I'm sorry you had a horrible experience with that school - glad you got out!

It was a Catholic only retreat. I had a lot of problems with that retreat. Don't get me started. The woman could not communicate her message to the kids. She was trying to use songs and expecting them to take whatever message she got from the songs on their own. Eighth graders don't do that. I was able to figure out what she wanted from them based on the small group questions, but they certainly weren't getting it. It was all very incoherent. 

And she made a big fuss that the leaders had to use first names even though the custom/norm in our religious ed program is that adults are called Mr/Ms/Mrs/Father. She even wanted the priest to just be "James". So kids who have known us as "Mr" and "Mrs" for two years had no idea how to address us all day because they weren't comfortable with first names and she corrected them if she heard them use Mr/Mrs. A small thing, really, but it succeeded in making everyone uncomfortable. 

I'm hoping she decides not to lead it again. We don't have to go for another two years. 

[RebelliousEscapee]

As someone who grew up in the culture Harris helped create, I have to concur with the concerns voiced here:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2017/07/im-concerned-josh-harriss-new-documentary.html

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, RebelliousEscapee said:

As someone who grew up in the culture Harris helped create, I have to concur with the concerns voiced here:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2017/07/im-concerned-josh-harriss-new-documentary.html

Libby Anne hits it out of the park again!

Yes, Josh Harris is making it all about him.  Absolutely no acknowledgement of the pain his book "may" have caused others.  And he had the unmitigated gall to ask people who did send him their stories of hurt to fund the documentary.  He's a parasite.

I completely agree with this:

Quote

As it stands, Harris and Van Der Wyngaard could put together a documentary defending I Kissed Dating Goodbye, adding some small adjustment or ephemeral change while bolstering its core ideas, without being accused of false advertisement. After all, nothing in these materials—either the email or the kickstarter—promises more than a twenty-years-on revisiting of the ideas, with a response to critics.

It’s not as though there isn’t precedent for this. Almost exactly a year ago, two brief months after apologizing to a critic on twitter, Harris went on NPR defending his book. He talked about how other people twisted his book. He talked about how other people applied it wrong. Yes, he said that he was trying to evaluate whether and how the things he wrote in his book contributed to these problems. However, as I noted at the time, his interview overall felt like a defense of his book. Listening to it—and I overheard it live—hurt.

So forgive me if I’m not willing to assume, on faith, that Harris and Van Der Wyngaard’s documentary will be anything more than a defense of Harris’ book. Forgive me if I’m not willing to assume that critics’ stories will be addressed as anything more than a misapplication or misunderstanding of Harris’ ideas and teachings.

I'm not assuming anything either, Libby Anne.

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

I'm not assuming anything either, Libby Anne.

With the co-producer of his "documentary" looking like a leghumper extraordinaire, I'm not expecting much, either.

Good exegesis, Libby Anne.

[desertvixen]

@louisa05, I also hope she doesn't lead again.  That's just...bizarre.

[seraaa]

This project continues apace, and is being talked about in Christianity Today, where Harris appears in a podcast

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2017/july-web-only/can-josh-harris-kiss-his-book-goodbye.html

Also the director and Josh speak about it here

https://convivium.ca/articles/revisiting-i-kissed-dating-goodbye

 

[erunerune]

I predict that the final product will be all of the fundie hipster navel-gazing that crowd-funded money can buy. I do not understand why anyone would donate to this, but I certainly intend to watch it if it ever sees the light of day.

[seraaa]

1 hour ago, erunerune said:

I predict that the final product will be all of the fundie hipster navel-gazing that crowd-funded money can buy. I do not understand why anyone would donate to this, but I certainly intend to watch it if it ever sees the light of day.

I am definitely very curious to see the final product

[hoipolloi]

Count me among potential watchers as well but in the meantime, why would anyone need crowd-funding to accomplish the following?

Quote

“I’ve wanted to move on from this book for some time, but I’m trying to talk to people who are sharing stories with me about ways the book really hurt them and damaged them. It’s partly for my own sense of closure to come back and reevaluate it and even to admit ways that I have now changed in my thinking,” Harris said.

ETA: Josh Harris's dishonesty & deflection in that Q & A are stunning:

Quote

JH: I'd been lead pastor of a church for 10 years. I really got burned out in ministry and went through some tough church division and crises. There were a lot of broken relationships, disappointments and weariness. I was aware of my own failure in different ways. I was more aware of the imperfections of the church community that I'd led. I felt the church needed someone fresh to come in and lead. We met with counselors and they said, "You need to take a break or you're going to blow up your life."

Josh Harris - your fucking church cult was at the center of a major sex abuse scandal.

Too bad the victims who had THEIR lives blown up by the pedophiles and abusers shielded by your church & staff couldn't take a break. Asshat.

[Palimpsest]

I'm another who will watch the documentary but will not fund it.

I listened to part of the podcast.  He is still very much focused on himself but he seems to be honing his message to sound a bit less self-serving.

Josh wants "closure" on the book.  He originally wrote the book because he felt so bad about the girls he had hurt by dating and wanted a new approach.  (Oh, yeah.)

Having felt hurt and betrayed by things that happened in his previous church (he is of course the innocent party in all that) he is now more open to listening to criticism.  He no longer has to be the "Pastor" who has all the answers so he can now re-examine the book.  Being a student helps him examine new ideas.  He now knows that all criticism does not come from "haters."

He still thinks it is really important to put God first - ahead of relationships.  That was not a mistake.

This next bit is probably very true and reflects things that people have already said here:  

He was just repeating the ideas of others preaching purity culture. The book was successful because it was published at the right time, and pastors and parents pushed it at their children. His parents were upset by their wild antics in the 60s.  AIDS was still a big issue for his generation so abstinence was cool.

My brain switched off around then because he started getting very preachy.  If I have time (and his preaching doesn't make me too nauseous) I may listen to the rest of it later.

[seraaa]

@Palimpsest towards the end, he acknowledges that they're having trouble raising all the funds on the kickstarter because the people who agree with the book don't want the criticisms to get air time, and the people who disagree don't trust it/him to do an adequate job. 

 

[Palimpsest]

Thanks @seraaa.  That is interesting about the lack of funding.  It's also true that people don't see why a documentary is needed in the first place. 

I do feel a bit sorry for the young woman who thought the documentary would be a great Master's thesis.  She opened a can of worms for herself.