Dillards 31: Grifting, Lying, and Allergies

[singsingsing]

1 minute ago, onekidanddone said:

Maybe true, but 22 sure is not the average for having your baby brother tag along on all your dates.

Let's be real, no age is the average for that kind of foolishness, and no husband, not even one as amazing as Derick Dillard, could ever be worth it! 

[cascarones]

Not sure if anyone else has a soft spot for the snark in advice columns, but this one about the wife struggling with what to do with her husband wanting to go on a mission trip and not knowing how to tell him she won't be able to cope with the workload of five kids and full time school/ if she should even tell him seems relevant to Jill and Derick (and possibly a few of the other couples). 

Dear Carolyn- Husband Asks to Go on Mission Trip

 

[justmy2cents]

I just noticed that DFO has 3 videos congratulating the Dillards on their 3 year anniversary, including one from the Vuolo's with Jeremy proclaiming his love for them.  Looks like they're doing some PR to offset all the feud rumors.

[Rachel333]

5 hours ago, FleeJanaFree said:

Embarrassing truth moment: I didn't have my first kiss til I was 21! I am no fundie, extremely liberal.

He was not worth the wait. Not at all. Just get that awkward moment over in middle school, folks, so it doesn't hang over your head.b

Hey, me too! The first one was unwanted and unpleasant. The second one, a few weeks later and with a different person, was much better!

[MadeItOut]

8 hours ago, Jucifer said:

In the SDA world in the 70s, we were taught that 'wine' was a mistranslation. Communion in my church was a wafer and grape juice. 

Jesus would never drink alcohol because it's against SDA rules. .

 

That's interesting. The Methodist community we grew up in freely admitted it was wine in the Bible, but we use ribena in church to respect that some of our members do not drink.

[FleeJanaFree]

I give them a pass for congrats videos for weddings and births...but fucking anniversaries? Ain't nobody got time for that! Next up: Congrats on cooking chickenetti!

[mpheels]

4 hours ago, MadeItOut said:

That's interesting. The Methodist community we grew up in freely admitted it was wine in the Bible, but we use ribena in church to respect that some of our members do not drink.

It's one of the things the Methodist church does really well - grape juice instead of wine so the table is accessible to all. In recent years, most churches have added some type of gluten free alternative to bread as well. I've always appreciated the very open nature of the UMC in that respect - it's the Lord's table, not the Methodist table. All are welcome.

[NotQuiteMotY]

6 hours ago, mpheels said:

 In recent years, most churches have added some type of gluten free alternative to bread as well. 

I think that's getting more common. My (Presbyterian) church passes trays of bread with little cups of gluten-free bread in the center.

We've always done grape juice, though. Not sure when or why that started, but I know a lot of the last couple generations were teetotallers, so that might be part of it.

[Bad Wolf]

We have gluten free in addition to a choice of wine or grape juice (Episcopal). I think I read that the Pope said that gluten free didn't count. So Jesus is looking down and keeping score of who takes what? Seriously. 

[HarryPotterFan]

2 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

We have gluten free in addition to a choice of wine or grape juice (Episcopal). I think I read that the Pope said that gluten free didn't count. So Jesus is looking down and keeping score of who takes what? Seriously. 

Jesus doesn't believe in gluten free diets!

[MadeItOut]

That's alright, likely the wheat doesn't believe in Jesus either

[SapphireSlytherin]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

Pope said that gluten free didn't count.

Because Jesus was made of wheat?

Seriously (atheist here, remember), I just don't understand why literally millions of people take some random man's edicts and opinions to heart.

[singsingsing]

7 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Because Jesus was made of wheat?

Seriously (atheist here, remember), I just don't understand why literally millions of people take some random man's edicts and opinions to heart.

Well, it's a hell of a lot more complex than that. I'm not a Catholic, or a traditional/orthodox Christian, but there are vast, intricate layers of history, philosophy, theology and tradition that go into it. It's not just a matter of some random dude saying, "I'm the Pope, do what I say or else lol" and a bunch of fools believing him. I say this because I think atheists very often do themselves a disservice and vastly weaken their own arguments when they're blithely dismissive of thousands of years of theology, doctrine, and religious tradition.

[Carm_88]

2 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Because Jesus was made of wheat?

Seriously (atheist here, remember), I just don't understand why literally millions of people take some random man's edicts and opinions to heart.

Well Jesus did break bread, give it his disciplines, and say "Take this all of you and eat it, this is my body, which will be given up for you. So that your sins will be forgiven, do this in memory of me." (Paraphrasing what I remember from mass but I think I have it, somewhat right) 

ETA: Take this, all of you, and eat it: this is my body which will be given up for you.  Close enough! The last part is with the wine!  

[Daisy0322]

@Carm_88 take this and eat, this is my body given to you. Do this in rememberance of me. Depending on the denomination I'm sure it can vary lol but I'm not that up on differences..

 

i  still go to church but I believe religion is in shades of grey and open to interpretation based on the individuals life experiences. Also, church I grew up in used grape juice because the pastor was pretty open about being a recovering alcoholic and the church just respected that he wanted to not be around it but they still held October fest and things so it's not like he disagreed with it. More like understood his own boundaries.

[MadeItOut]

There's also that whole thing of ordination and transubstantiation etc - it's surprising that some folks who believe in it, also seem to believe that only certain items can be transubstantiated - to my mind, that's sort of outside the spirit (no pun intended) of the thing.

[Jug Band Baby]

On 6/17/2017 at 10:28 AM, VelociRapture said:

I honestly don't know anyone personally who has had a home birth. Everyone I know has had a hospital birth. I also don't know anyone who has had a bad experience with hospital births either. 

Either you are a lucky charm and somehow only know people who had perfect hospital births, or you know some people who aren't telling the truth.  The number of people I know who've had traumatic experiences in hospitals is so high that it's disheartening.  A long-time friend of mine was given Pitocin without her consent, which caused labor to go so fast for her that she tore as far forward as her clitoris, and clear through to her anus.  She hemorrhaged so had she lost her uterus.  The rectal damage was bad enough that she had to have an ostomy.  And if that's not bad enough, the doctor ignored her when she said she could feel something wrong.  Turns out her baby's cord was around his neck and he was blue when he was born.  He was severely brain damaged.  For a while she thought she was lucky to be in a hospital because things went wrong, and then realized her treatment in the hospital is why things went wrong.  She lost her lawsuit because the judge determined Pitocin to be routine, even if given without consent, and decided the hospital and doctor did everything it could to minimize damage, even though their actions led to the tragedy.  I won't even get into the friend whose baby died because of unneeded interventions, the cousin who was dehumanized so much that the doctor she had would only talk to her through her husband, or any of the other cases.  All the nightmare situations I've heard about, and only a single solitary non-ideal homebirth (ended with a transfer and mom and baby being fine, no surgery or anything, just pain management) scared me away from hospitals, where I had planned to give birth.  Good thing I did since the hospital I was going to go to automatically cuts if a baby turns breech, and consent matters for shit.  Both my babies went breech, and were born at home with a very skilled midwife and a nurse who acts as a doula with a homebirth-supportive doctor on call.

The rate of deaths in hospitals has climbed so high that the World Health Organization has declared it to be a crisis.  Shit's going so wrong in the US that, instead of trying to look down on homebirths, where the rate has stayed stable, people need to be looking at why the hell hospitals are having move and more deaths.  Women are more likely to survive childbirth in Estonia or Slovenia than in the US (we're about 50th), and fuck all to the people who say all that matters is a healthy baby (we rate about 50th for neonatal survival too).  Mothers surviving matter too.  Yet we're 50th, and hospitals are where it's climbing.  If anyone wants women to trust hospitals, then our medical establishment needs to get off their fucking asses and start looking at why deaths are rising, and accept that overmedicating and overmedicalizing is dangerous, and so is not listening to pregnant women when we feel something wrong, and dictating for us whether or not we're even allowed to eat because doctors are already planning surgery.

[seraaa]

I'm pretty sure our Catholic church had some kind of gluten free option growing up - I think I remember more than one type. I may be wrong, but I think so.

It was always def altar wine, tho. I got into the habit of not taking the wine - people just walked past to skip it if they didn't want to, nbd

[Jug Band Baby]

On 6/17/2017 at 3:14 PM, Darwinesque said:

There is a lot that I like about the US but your health care seems f'd-up to me. For such a developed, wealthy country it feels like the population is being let down. 

America isn't really wealthy.  A handful of multi-billionaires are.  The top 1% of Americans have between 33% and 42% of known assets.  Known, because there is money in offshore accounts that can't be accounted for.  So the top 3,214,000 people have upwards of 42% or more of all the money and everything to themselves, and the remaining 318,186,000 have to share the remaining 52%  or less.

But let's make that more dire.  The top 10% have a whopping 76% of everything.  So 32,140,000 have a whole 76% of everything to themselves.  The remaining 289,260,000 of us have to fight for the remaining 24%.   Poverty is common here now.  I 2015, 42.2mil Americans had times of not enough to eat.  

Quote

I hope this doesn't sound like too much of a put down of the USA, there's plenty you do better than us, but I wouldn't swap the NHS for anything.

I don't think you could put us down more than we already put ourselves down.  It's much worse here than I think the rest of the world knows.  It's scary.  I'm scared to death.  For the first time in my life, I feel hopeless about the future.

On 6/17/2017 at 9:29 PM, Fluffy14 said:

I read recently that USA has the highest mortality rate in the western world.  Pretty sad considering such highly qualified and advanced  medical technology.

And highest neonatal death rates.  There are developing nations where the chance of survival is better.

[MadeItOut]

For what little it's worth @Jug Band Baby, those of us across the pond are more likely than ever now, when something's said about 'Americans', to say 'hang on, that's not fair. A ton of everyday Americans just aren't like that'.

[VelociRapture]

@Jug Band BabyI made it completely clear in my post that, while I personally didn't know anyone with a bad hospital experience, I also had no doubts that there are many who do. And I also made it clear that while I don't know anyone who has had a home birth I have no doubt many people have excellent experiences. I agree that there are serious issues regarding maternal health in the US, even if I personally have not faced any of them. I was pregnant last year and I did a good deal of research - I know there are problems.

I respect your opinions and your right to state them however you feel is best. That said, I really don't appreciate the argumentative and hostile tone you're taking with me when I've been nothing but polite and civil in this overall discussion. 

(And for the record, many of the women I know who gave birth recently went to the same practice and hospital as me. Their practice is popular because they're respectful and have excellent outcomes. The right Doctor and facility can make a massive difference in overall experience - it saddens me that many women in the US don't have more options in practicioners or birthing facilities, even if they choose not to utilize them.)

[Greendoor]

7 hours ago, MadeItOut said:

There's also that whole thing of ordination and transubstantiation etc - it's surprising that some folks who believe in it, also seem to believe that only certain items can be transubstantiated - to my mind, that's sort of outside the spirit (no pun intended) of the thing.

 

That kinda went out decades ago.  I have never know anyone who believed in transubstantiation.  All kinds of old "folk" beliefs come and go.   

[SapphireSlytherin]

16 hours ago, singsingsing said:

blithely dismissive of thousands of years of theology, doctrine, and religious tradition

I'm hardly blithely dismissive. I grew up in a church - there every time the doors opened, and sometimes even when they weren't. My parents both had jobs there (choir director, church secretary). 

My (lack of) beliefs are based on years of study and research. I'm old. I've read a lot. I've learned a lot. I can still quote chapter-and-verse of the bible. I'm also still learning. Lecturing me isn't going to change my opinion of some random man who lives in the Vatican City issuing rules and whatever, that millions of people follow without question or hesitation.

Coming back to add:  I took dozens of religion classes - in church, in college, and post-grad. I've studied philosophy. I've studied anthropology. I've studied psychology. I've probably studied too much. But I reached my own conclusion regarding religion/god/gods/etc., and I'm perfectly happy being a good person simply because I want to be good - not because I'm terrified of the "invisible sky man" and his judgment. Children who are raised in the church are literally told what to believe. It's programming. Just like the Duggar children are programmed to believe their version of religion and their way of raising children is "right."

I'm extremely proud that I have my own mind, and am in full control of what I believe/don't believe, and nobody is telling me that I must believe ABC - and if they try, I can just say "thank you" and move on. To the same point, I don't tell religious people that they're stupid/ignorant for believing. If it helps them get through the day/week/month/life, that's fine with me. However, I've found that most of my religious friends spend way too much time trying to convince atheists that they're wrong/going to hell (which atheists don't believe in)/that we're Satan-worshipers (also:  don't believe in Satan)/that we're a bad influence on their children (how???)/etc.

It's very hard to be an atheist in a religious world. Outside of a very close circle of my friends, nobody knows I'm an atheist, because it's just too much work. 

[mpheels]

14 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I'm hardly blithely dismissive. I grew up in a church - there every time the doors opened, and sometimes even when they weren't. My parents both had jobs there (choir director, church secretary). 

My (lack of) beliefs are based on years of study and research. I'm old. I've read a lot. I've learned a lot. I can still quote chapter-and-verse of the bible. I'm also still learning. Lecturing me isn't going to change my opinion of some random man who lives in the Vatican City issuing rules and whatever, that millions of people follow without question or hesitation.

You questioned religion and changed your beliefs. That does not mean people who hold religious beliefs have never questioned.

[SapphireSlytherin]

3 minutes ago, mpheels said:

That does not mean people who hold religious beliefs have never questioned

Not sure where I said that. I know a lot of people who've questioned and stayed. That's fine.

If you've inferred that from my "following the pope without question" statement, that's not what I meant. I meant:  Pope says jump, they jump. Period.