PA Electors to have Police Protection

[Summer60]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

So you are going to wait till it is actually taking place to believe he is going to do the stuff he says? Won't that be a wee bit late

No. That is not what I am saying at all. It would be late. I think that is why people need to stay involved, stay aware, and not fall victim to Propaganda coming from any side. There is absolutely no reason why "the people" cannot take an active role in their government at any time and there is no reason we ever need to lay down and accept that any individual in office is without flaw.

I do not see any indication that Trump will build concentration camps and begin a genocide. I really do not think it will happen. More than not wanting it to happen or hoping it won't happen, I don't believe it will happen. I don't think the average American would stand for it. There is no way it would go unnoticed and America was founded on the very idea that we don't have Kings, we can legally challenge any authority.  Trump is not King of America. We have checks and balances. If anyone treats ANY leader as King and behaves as if challenging their authority shows lack of respect, that is far more problematic. Obama has never been my King, Trump will never be my King.

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Who is Jyn? 

Rouge One

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

If he wants to do things that are not hurting people and help, sure I'll support it and I think both parties should be willing to work together. But if he is staying on the path he is on, then no, no one should work with that. He needs to be fought ever single step of the way. I'm still annoyed that the Charlotte government in trying to "work with" the Republicans backed down and got rid of the laws protecting vulnerable people. We don't need that sort of working together, do we? 

If you are going to insist on believing every single thing he is doing is wrong and not a single thing he is doing could possibly be worked out to do good, then I wouldn't expect you to "work with that" but if you are not considering all options, you are not even working together, you are possibly working against people. If you refuse to work in some way, then you are handing more power to elected officials. I don't want any branch of our government to have absolute power, including the executive branch. The more power they have, the less "we" have.

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Count me in, but don't count me in for supporting lies and bad government decisions like the Carrier one were just to put on a show and ends up hurting people. Do you think states should pay millions to companies to help them get to the point to get rid of jobs?

How is the Carrier deal hurting people?

Why should  a company send jobs to another country, pay the people there crappy wages AND be allowed to avoid tariffs when importing product?

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Have you looked at Hillary's detailed plan? I'm going with that. What exactly do you think Trump offers working America? Can you point to his plans that will help?

Why are we even talking about Hillary's plan? She isn't going to be our president. Our Electors didn't vote for her to be our president. Hillary Clinton will NOT be the President of the United States. America would have voted differently had they wanted her plan. You are just "Going with that?" What about it do you like? All of it? Just like that? Do you know her plans? Can you describe them for me?

Trump wants to create infrastructure jobs. Surely you agree that can help?

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

I wouldn't let him lie without continually stopping him, so I think the conversation would be short. Do you support Trump's plans? Can you describe them for me? But if he asked, I would again, point to Hillary's plan for rural, working America. 

So, you are unwilling to move from Hillary's plans? It is that or nothing?

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

He isn't exactly known for treating the people he hires well, is he? His tax cuts won't help small businesses. His deal with Carrier was just terrible for everyone. You really think millions for companies to keep tiny amounts of jobs for a limited time is good for small businesses? Killing TPP could very well hurt working America and small businesses in the long run. Now, can you point out exactly how he is helping small businesses?

Um, how he IS helping is an odd way to word this since he is not yet the president. However, plans to repeal or amend the ACA are a start. I am not sure if you know any small business owners, but I know enough that are seriously hurting at this point. These people want to provide health care, but Trump (and Clinton) realize that the current state of health care is too expensive. Our health care system really is "a disaster" in it's current state. Why not allow States to buy and sell health care across state lines? Why continue to allow premiums to rise? Lest not forget that there are people who are really struggling with Obamacare right now.

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Can you list his positive statements that aren't obvious lies for me? I'm drawing a blank. Promises he never intends to keep don't count. You are going to have to provide things he said that he means. Also it would be nice if they are so good they can counteract all the really, REALLY, REALLY terrible stuff he says. A mountain of bad things with a speck of a good thing doesn't make me feel positive. Would it you? 

I am going to start this one right off the bat with the cliche of wondering why on earth you would trust any politician? You do realize that Hillary Clinton wasn't exactly the trailblazer of truth most Americans are seeking. Trump is not the "religious conservative" we are used to seeing and I hope that means a big decline of religious conservatism. Sure, religious people may have voted for Trump, but it certainly wasn't so they can prevent people from using whatever bathroom they want. Trump also isn't exactly Hawkish. While some may believe he is going to "tweet us into WW3", I do feel more confident that Trump wants to avoid getting involved in war, spending money on war and risking lives in war than Clinton felt. At least he doesn't plan on cutting defense spending. I would rather spend too much on defense and not go to war than too little on defense and go to war.

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

His platform is TERRIBLE! We don't want him to move on with that*. He needs to find a new platform that isn't scary beyond all reason. 

*are you wanting him to stick with the platform he campaigned with? What did you like? 

I like the idea of creating new jobs,seeing improved infrastructure,  of amending the ACA, increasing the defense budget. I don't mind seeing more Charter schools and more spending on Charter schools. Making our allies take some of the burden on global security? Yes please! Why is that scary? Why should we do it all?

[formergothardite]

Are you a Trump supporter? 

[SilverBeach]

@Summer60, the stupid electors may have not elected HRC, but the people of the United States did. The majority has been disenfranchised by the minority, what kind of democracy is this? The EC has got to go, no way should it be able to do an end run around the will of the people. Especially when it did not even live up to it's charter by keeping an unfit person out of office. 

14 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Are you a Trump supporter? 

Sounds like it to me.

[Palimpsest]

24 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Are you a Trump supporter? 

 

10 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Sounds like it to me.

No, no, no! She's just optimistic not like you horrible pessimists who can't see a thing to like in the President-elect.  And you can add me to the list of horrible pessimists.

She and her arguments also sound very familiar.  

[Summer60]

36 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Are you a Trump supporter? 

Not in the sense that I voted for him, but I don't think America is going to burn to the ground in the next four years. I do support ALL of my fellow Americans though.  I won't denounce the good things I pointed out simply because it is Trump saying those good things. I also won't attack all Trump supporters, just as I don't think it is okay to attack all Clinton supporters or third party supporters.

22 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

@Summer60, the stupid electors may have not elected HRC, but the people of the United States did. The majority has been disenfranchised by the minority, what kind of democracy is this? The EC has got to g, no way should it be able to do an end run around the will of the people. Especially when it did not even live up to it's charter by keeping an unfit person out of office. 

Sounds like it to me.

Do you think Obama fairly won in 2008?

Spoiler

Now, Did he fairly win the primaries in 2008?

 

15 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

 

No, no, no! She's just optimistic not like you horrible pessimists who can't see a thing to like in the President-elect.  And you can add me to the list of horrible pessimists.

She and her arguments also sound very familiar.  

I don't think anyone is horrible for being pessimistic over a Trump presidency. I think it is horrible to give up when you actually believe the world is crashing around you, but I don't think anyone here is saying they are giving up. I believe in America. I am optimistic for America. I am comfortable with that in myself. I am not attacking anyone for being pessimistic, I am defending myself for saying I was hopeful. I don't want people to feel hopeless. Being hopeless implies you don't believe you can help but if you do feel hopeless, you feel that way and I am not angry with people for feeling that way...but if everyone feels that way and does nothing, well, you have removed hope.

[Childless]

22 minutes ago, Summer60 said:

 

Do you think Obama fairly won in 2008?

Yes.  He won the popular vote in both '08 and '12.

[Summer60]

8 minutes ago, Childless said:

Yes.  He won the popular vote in both '08 and '12.

He did not in the primaries in 2008. Clinton did.

[formergothardite]

Trump has said he stands behind starting a Muslim registry and banning Muslims from entering America. Is that bad enough to dampen your perpetual hope that he isn't going to be as terrible as he claimed he would be, @Summer60?

Feeling hopeful in hate(and you will have to tell us how he doesn't stand for hate) isn't a good thing. 

I brought up Hillary's plan because you asked what I thought would be a better idea than Trump's. Her's is not perfect, but is a hell of a lot better then whatever he has been spouting.

As I said, I will work with him if he isn't saying he wants to do terrible things. If he produced an amazing health care plan right now, I would be all for it. The current idea he is letting the GOP go with is terrible. If he stood up for women's rights, hell yes I'll work with him. If he stood up for the rights of minorities, again, I would be all for it. 

The Carrier deal is costing the state millions of dollars. That money has to come from somewhere, which means other programs will have fundie cut. The money is going to be used to update the facilities so that they need less workers. So the deal is the state paying money for a company to spend the money creating less long term jobs. Plus it set a disastrous precedent. Are we going to keep doing this with companies? Throwing money at them when they threaten to take jobs even if that money will be used to get rid of jobs? 

What has stood out the most is that you haven't provided one positive thing he has said or told us his policies that will help rural America. Repealing ACA won't do that. Go read in the other thread about Trump voters freaking out about losing their insurance if it is repealed. 

[SilverBeach]

57 minutes ago, Summer60 said:

Not in the sense that I voted for him, but I don't think America is going to burn to the ground in the next four years. I do support ALL of my fellow Americans though.  I won't denounce the good things I pointed out simply because it is Trump saying those good things. I also won't attack all Trump supporters, just as I don't think it is okay to attack all Clinton supporters or third party supporters.

Do you think Obama fairly won in 2008?

  Reveal hidden contents

Now, Did he fairly win the primaries in 2008?

 

I don't think anyone is horrible for being pessimistic over a Trump presidency. I think it is horrible to give up when you actually believe the world is crashing around you, but I don't think anyone here is saying they are giving up. I believe in America. I am optimistic for America. I am comfortable with that in myself. I am not attacking anyone for being pessimistic, I am defending myself for saying I was hopeful. I don't want people to feel hopeless. Being hopeless implies you don't believe you can help but if you do feel hopeless, you feel that way and I am not angry with people for feeling that way...but if everyone feels that way and does nothing, well, you have removed hope.

Yes, of course Obama fairly won by popular and electoral vote. Your point? Bush 2 did not win fair and square, Al Gore beat him.

Yadda yadda, I believe in America, make America great again, whatever. When I thought America was a democratic republic, maybe I believed a bit, not any more. I'm going to do my best to see as little of Drumpf's face as possible.

Policies don't matter when the person espousing them is racist, classist, misogynistic, xenophobic, and just an all around reprehensible human being. Gah.

 

 

Trump isn't worthy of licking President Obama's shoes. Trump will never be my president. His supporters would never have accepted HRC, who are they kidding? Trump even said as much! 

Back to making dinner. Gah squared.

45 minutes ago, Childless said:

Yes.  He won the popular vote in both '08 and '12.

AND the EC vote, for what it's worth.

[SilverBeach]

36 minutes ago, Summer60 said:

He did not in the primaries in 2008. Clinton did.

If he wasn't the people's choice, why was he re-elected in 2012? Stop trying to somehow equate Cheeto with President Obama.

I am Black which is another reason for my despair. The outpouring of hate by Trump supporters who, with good reason, believe that he shares their values, is nothing short of nauseating. I haven't seen this much racial upheaval since the 1960s, yes, I  am that old.

A pig with lipstick is still a pig. Peeing on my leg and telling me it's raining is still pee on my leg. Ugh.

[SilverBeach]

And what happened to our little friend Summer60?

[Destiny]

Summer60 has been banned for violating one of our most sacred rules. Apparently she just can't quit us.

And yes, it was who you are thinking.

[Palimpsest]

27 minutes ago, Destiny said:

And yes, it was who you are thinking.

The "tells" are always there.  She loves us so much she can't keep away.  She keeps coming back and getting banned. Again, and again, and again.

You would think there are other places on the internet she could pester ...

[Flossie]

Wait, I knew Summer what's her name was a troll, but who was it?  Burris?  Razing Ruth?  The one with the tropical fish?

[JoyfulSel]

18 hours ago, Destiny said:

Summer60 has been banned for violating one of our most sacred rules. Apparently she just can't quit us.

And yes, it was who you are thinking.

I knew it! Sounded just like the idiot from the day after the election. What a loser.

[Mecca]

3 hours ago, Flossie said:

Wait, I knew Summer what's her name was a troll, but who was it?  Burris?  Razing Ruth?  The one with the tropical fish?

PPS which really should stand for Persistent Pest Syndrome. Lordy knows she suffers from that. 

But wait, peeps she was just hopeful. Hopeful,  hopeful, hopeful. And Kanye was going to make everything better at the inauguration. I called it being this particular poster and just stopped engaging her. She flat out can't take no for an answer. Just like Trump, her dark lord and savior, and his assaulting of females. 

[Destiny]

FTR, if y'all see someone who pings your PPS radar, feel free to PM an admin and say something. The worst that could happen is it's not and a couple minutes of check time are wasted. I've personally banned her 3 times and am sure I will do so again.

[Coconut Flan]

We can catch some of the attempts, but then one slides through. 

[nausicaa]

21 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

The "tells" are always there.  She loves us so much she can't keep away.  She keeps coming back and getting banned. Again, and again, and again.

You would think there are other places on the internet she could pester ...

What on earth does she want? 

I just don't get it.

[Palimpsest]

58 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

What on earth does she want? 

I just don't get it.

The attention she sadly lacks IRL? 

That's all I've got

[Destiny]

I knew it! Sounded just like the idiot from the day after the election. What a loser.

That was her too. LOL.

[Curious]

Dang it.  I missed this attempt by PPS    I just realized today it's been a year since she was banned.  I'm not sure why she feels like she needs to be HERE.  The internet is a big place.  I'm sure she'd feel more at home at Brie*bar* or In*fow*rs.  They are her people based on her use of them as primary sources before being banned.

She would have done it too, if it weren't for the pesky Politics forum!  *shaking fist*

[AlwaysExcited]

Can someone, please, explain WTF is going on and who on Earth is this person? Please? 

[Ali]

4 hours ago, AlwaysExcited said:

Can someone, please, explain WTF is going on and who on Earth is this person? Please? 

Summer60 was a sock for PregnantPornStar who was banned a year ago and has come back multiple times using sock accounts. She keeps getting caught because she is unable to resist coming into the politics subforum. She has also been complaining about Free Jinger for over a year on GOMI and other locations.

[AlwaysExcited]

I had to google GOMI now.  I'll pass that rabbit hole.