Bates Courtship

[slp]

AGe gaps just aren't seen as a big deal in my family. My *mom* was seven years older than my *dad*. My grandmother started dating my grandfather when she was 14 and he was 22 (this was in the 1920s) My cousin is married to a man 15 yrs her senior. It's just 'normal'. LOL

Now me, I stuck to my own age group. My husband is only 1 yr older than I am.

Gil and Kelly seem to be very in love with each other, so maybe they would truly desire for their children to be very in love too. I hope so. Erin seems quite smitten in the pics and so does Chad.

[persuas1ve]

I am just so relieved that they don't feel the need to wear matching clothes at every turn! Matching outfits, "Joshy's Girl" purses, and hand sex all make me nauseated. Bleh.

That being said, Chad's post was so genuine-sounding, free from the overuse of fundieisms, I actually didn't cringe. I think they will do well together.

[xReems]

It looks like Erin chimed in on chad's blog post:

Awww...Chad, you are definitely my best friend too! <3

I am certainly the most blessed girl in the world! Thank you for the wonderful memories and the spiritual example you have shown! I love you, Chad! <3 <3

Yg...Erin

They have got to be engaged. Doesn't gothard teaches to not let your emotions run wild during the courtship phase? Mullet said once its more like a "business meeting" where you guard your heart and get to know your potential mate. It seems like other fundies say "I love you" after they're engaged. Unless Kelly Jo has changed it up now that she believes with "dating with a purpose."

[Avalondaughter]

I agree with those who say that a Duggar courtship is coming. J'bobmichelle will not like seeing Bates marry off while their daughters are still at home. They will sacrifice the least useful J'slave.

My husband is 11 years older than I am, but I met him when I was almost 30. At 21 I would have considered him way too old. We were in vastly different life situations at 21 and 32 than we were at 28 and 39.

[LynnGrey]

A lot of those photos look like engagement photos: all posed and idyllic. I know courtships are intentional and practically are an engagement to a lot of fundies, but isn't this style of announcement kind of premature? Or are they already engaged, do you think?

[nokidsmom]

It looks like Erin chimed in on chad's blog post:

Awww...Chad, you are definitely my best friend too! <3

I am certainly the most blessed girl in the world! Thank you for the wonderful memories and the spiritual example you have shown! I love you, Chad! <3 <3

Yg...Erin

They have got to be engaged. Doesn't gothard teaches to not let your emotions run wild during the courtship phase? Mullet said once its more like a "business meeting" where you guard your heart and get to know your potential mate. It seems like other fundies say "I love you" after they're engaged. Unless Kelly Jo has changed it up now that she believes with "dating with a purpose."

This courtship looks to be a far cry from the Zach's courtship with Sarah Reith, so it may be that Kelly and Gil learned some lessons after that.

[singsingsing]

I think if they're not already engaged, the family must know the engagement is coming. If it's obvious to us that these two clearly like each other a lot and have chemistry, it must be even more obvious to the people who know them. I'm sure it's one of those deals where they're basically engaged in all by name, he just has to get the ring and propose, but everyone knows it's going to happen. I don't think Kelly would've risked making the announcement unless they were totally sure.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Wow! How progressive of Ma & Pa Bates!

Congratulations! They are a very handsome couple. Are they allowed to spend time alone together in conversation? How about private telephone conversations? I’ve always been confused about how courtship allows couples to really get to know each other if there is no opportunity for private conversations.

Reply

Kelly January 8, 2013 at 7:54 pm

Dottie,

I guess every family is different about the ideas they have on courtship. There are so many books and speakers on the subject now. It has become a hot topic around many conservative families. There are a lot of ideas we don’t necessarily agree with, which is why we struggle with what to call it… courtship, pre-engagement, or dating with a purpose. The thing we do agree with is a desire to maintain purity until marriage. We agree with having a desire to discern God’s will for marriage, rather than just dating around with multiple companions, for many years.

There are also many things we disagree with. We don’t think there is a mold that everyone has to fit in (i.e. do it this way, in this amount of time). Although no one wants a long drawn out 7 – 14 year relationship like Jacob had, it doesn’t make sense to tell couples they should have to rush and get married in 3 months either. The couple misses so much that way. They miss learning to romance each other; they miss learning self-control; they miss a very fun and important part of their relationship. Every couple is different; their circumstances are different; their geographical distance is different; so there should not be just one mold. We also don’t agree with some avid courtship speakers who maintain that the couple shouldn’t say, “I love you†until whatever time they think is appropriate. We think the couple should certainly be serious before that stage, because it’s easy to have shallow conversations filled with emotional “I love you’s†and “I miss you’sâ€, to the neglect of deeper conversations to get to know more about each other. However, we expect any boy who is serious about pursuing our daughter to have feelings for her! Imagine courting someone with no love! We’ve heard people preach that is a good thing, but I think a relationship with spark is a much healthier relationship!

We think if a couple is old enough to think about getting married, they’re plenty old enough to learn to talk to God and each other, and make some decisions for themselves. We’re glad that our children respect us and ask our counsel about things, but I think far too often parents have a very difficult time “letting go.†An adult child entering a serious relationship better be able to also make decisions!! So yes, Chad and Erin are allowed to talk on the phone alone. They have chosen to have chaperones when in each others presence, because they like the accountability. Having chaperones doesn’t mean they aren’t given some space or that they have to have all their conversations monitored (i.e. they asked us and some siblings to accompany them on a date, but we all sat at a different table so they could be alone).

Before courtship, we chose to allow them to communicate through something we called accountability texting. They texted to a sibling’s phone who forwarded their messages. This may seem like an unnecessaary process, but it served two purposes for us: 1. It allowed them to guard their conversations before they were certain that they were ready to become more serious about their relationship. This meant they focused their talk on really getting to know each other, rather than just repeating a lot of emotionally charged words before they were ready for that phase. (Many couples can say “I love you,†but they never learned to show it, and they never took time to ask questions to find what makes their companion feel loved). 2. It made the whole family become close friends with Chad. Chad even gave the siblings “Thank you†gifts for all the forwarding they had done for him before courtship. This was one of the best and sweetest things we did!

Before courtship, when it was obvious they were growing more fond of each other, we felt like they needed some alone conversations to share personal things to learn about each other’s pasts, goals, etc… so we had what we called “Open-talk Saturdays.†They talked on the phone direct on Saturdays for a half hour in the morning and evening (of course they could ask for extensions whenever they needed to). After courtship, they began to text direct and talk on the phone each morning and night.

Does this mean courtships can’t end? Obviously not…two people plus their families are involved when dealing with relationships. Any one of those people might decide that they don’t think the relationship should continue. I think that’s why many parents don’t want the couple to express their feelings for each other. But we’ve learned sometimes the greatest lessons of life are painful, but God has a purpose in everything. We learned this through Zach’s courtship, and I think we’re all closer as a result. Because of that, we decided that we still wanted to post about this stage of Erin’s life. Exciting information is fun to share, and it is a phase of their life that they desire to have prayer for. As a family, we’ve had mountain top experiences and valleys! We share them both… so our friends rejoice with us through the good and encourage us through the trials.

Chad and Erin’s goal is that this relationship would glorify God to the fullest degree. They covet the prayers of others. They have made certain commitments because they want to be good role models for their younger siblings. They have a genuine and refreshing Christ-like love for one another, because their goal is to help each other become closer to Christ as they become closer to one another. So if for some unthinkable reason they decided to end their courtship, their goal would’ve been to have helped one another spiritually…which means they both are benefactors, no matter what their future holds. They’ve already challenged and encouraged one another spiritually in such a way that we can all say, “We’ve been so blessed!†Love, Kelly

[Jana814]

I saw Chad's blog, he seems like a nice enough person, I hope Erin can be happy, maybe she will not have as many kids as her parents or even Chad's parents did. I really hope since she loves music so much she can still do it after she has kids.

[Alecto]

I think what bothers me about their age gap is the fact that there is an age power involved as well as patriarchal power. It just seems like it has the potential to lead to abuse. I know people can have successful relationships with large age gaps, but being this young, having a large age gap, and being taught the man is the god of the house, it just seems that a large age gap added to that just adds more to the uneven power dynamics of a patriarchal relationship.

[TinyDancer87]

Wow! How progressive of Ma & Pa Bates!

Well, the parents sound a lot more hands off than the Duggars. They seem more like critical thinkers too. I truly believe Erin is happy, not feeling pressured, and genuinely in love.

I just feel so bad for Michaela! To know that her beautiful younger sister is getting her "prince-charming" before her. I can only imagine how sad she must be.

[sissyintexas]

He was born in 1987 so he is 25. She is 21. That's only 4 years - not a big age gap at all.

[Alecto]

He was born in 1987 so he is 25. She is 21. That's only 4 years - not a big age gap at all.

Their website said he was 25 and says it was updated in 2008 - so that is where I got my age guess.

[snickerz]

After courtship, they began to text direct and talk on the phone each morning and night..

This sounds like they have moved beyond courtship to engagement, (or whatever they're calling it these days.)

[Jana814]

Their website said he was 25 and says it was updated in 2008 - so that is where I got my age guess.

That is what threw me as well. I am guessing that he will be 30 this year. Does it say on his website what year he was born.

[Closed Womb]

Well, the parents sound a lot more hands off than the Duggars. They seem more like critical thinkers too. I truly believe Erin is happy, not feeling pressured, and genuinely in love.

I just feel so bad for Michaela! To know that her beautiful younger sister is getting her "prince-charming" before her. I can only imagine how sad she must be.

Some points in Kelly's long, long answer I am happy to see, and tons that just sound controlling. But, it seems that they are really letting their daughter get to know Chad without 100% oversight, which is nice, for a fundie captive.

I'm not sure I feel bad for Michaela. Has no one else ever gotten a lesbian vibe from her? She might be mighty happy staying out of that courting game, for that reason or many others.

[pixydust]

This sounds like they have moved beyond courtship to engagement, (or whatever they're calling it these days.)

I caught that too. I think that they are in the talking about marriage, but no ring yet stage.

[marmalade]

According to the Paine's website, Chad is 25 years old. If that was updated last year, he was born in 1987. 4 years age difference isn't that bad.

Even though they're a fundie couple, they do seem to like/love each other. Chad has no problem professing his love, whether its on his site or commenting on the Bates page. Do I find it stupid that they're forbidden from holding hands until marriage? Yes but at least they're able stand and sit close to each other without the 6 inch rule. I don't think they'll get to know each other on a more deeper level until marriage, however, since I'm sure they still follow the "always have a chaperone" rule.

The blog was written in 2007. He was 25 THEN, so born in 1982.

[sissyintexas]

My mistake! I would have sworn I saw 1987 on the website, but I guess not.

[SisiL78]

Whatever Chad's age is or isn't he's still a child who lives at home without any mention of a job, or training towards a job. How on earth is he supposed to support Erin as a SAHW while she pops out one kid after another without means of support? She's pretty now, but in a few years of living in some decrepit shack without enough funds to properly care for her ever growing brood and little to no medical care will take care of her good looks. I'm amazed Kelly has managed to still be pretty after all these years of living in their run-down house (only saved by the goodwill of TLC) waiting until Lawson was old enough to start working and paying the grocery bill b/c her husband is too much of a good for nothing to hold down a real job that brings in a real living.

[Carla Bruni]

Her hair is so big because its full of secrets.

I love you. So, so much.

[divadivine]

Her hair is so big because its full of secrets.

Shoot, you beat me to it!

[Justme]

I don't think Mullet & DimBulb will rush into a courtship for one of their "blessings". No way are they ready to let a servant child "go"..... :whistle: Besides Mullet will not want to have the attention off her for even one minute!

[theCR]

She actually looks really happy!

Reading the reply from Kelly makes me think there is a little hope for the Bates family. I mean some of the stuff such as accountability texting would be odd to me but I can understand it, I love that they do seem to have some freedom in the relationships.

Too bad none of the Jslaves will know what any of that is like.

Either way I wish them all the best and I hope they are happy!

[divadivine]

Looking at the pictures, I think Chad and Erin are really, genuinely in love. They've known each other for two years and clearly, they've been hanging out (even if it's with chaperones in tow) for awhile. Erin looks very mellow in the pictures with Chad. So, I do think the Lord has laid it upon their hearts that this courtship is what HE wants. And if the Lord lays it upon your heart, well... LOL

I also don't see Boob and Mullet letting one of the J'Slaves enter a courtship so they can keep up with the Bates family. I think there will be some massive Dugger J'Slave wedding to end the show- All the older girls (except Joy- who will become Momma 2) will get married in a VSE that will include the raising of Mini-TTH's arranged in a circle around Boob and Mullet's Mega-TTH. The reception will include TTC, Chickenetti and Butterfinger Ice Cream Cake (isn't that what the j'slaves made for J'Mullet on one of her birthdays in a very early VSE before they had the show?) Jinger will have a full on Starbucks coffee bar set up for guests because that's how she rolls. Joshie will eat so much at the reception that he'll explode like a pinata. J'Mullet will be found sitting in the corner holding a plastic baby doll because she'll be so freaked out that her slaves will be gone and that she's not having any more baybays. It will truly be the most amazing VSE in TLC history.