Lori Alexander thinks teachers are rich

[mockingbird]

Mockingbird, I'm wondering if we went to the same school. A lot of it comes from people who don't have a lot of education or don't put a lot of value in education. It kills me how much people truly undervalue the role of a teacher.

Ooh message me? It was near Cleveland. Is there a crazy fundy-lite woman who runs a website about how much the school district sucks? (Oliver Burton is a Sissy is going to turn her son gay!11!!)

[Hisey]

I once looked into teacher's salaries in Connecticut--a friend was having a hard time finding a teaching job and I thought he should check out CT. It's true, they offer very good salary and benefits. However, the nearby New England states also pay well. In a few states, teachers pay no copay on their health insurance (at least that's how it was when I lived there about 8 years ago). I knew a kindergarten teacher who reportedly made $90,000. I'm ashamed to say it, but at the time I was like "Wow! So much money for kindergarten?!" but now I am less ignorant.

I suppose some teachers work the minimum number of hours. However, the good teachers realize that this is not nearly enough time, especially for the younger grades. I've known teachers who come in at 6:30 every single day, to prepare for when the kids arrive at 8:15. And they don't rush off at the end of the day, either.

A friend of mine is a teacher in a poor school district. She says she gets about $200 a year--sometimes--to pay for supplies, for the entire year. And she teaches kindergarten, so she needs lots of supplies. What happens is, near the end of the year, with no warning, she is handed a catalog and told to pick out her supplies (not to exceed $200). She thinks its silly to pay catalog prices for staples and glue, so she chooses higher priced items. When the back-to-school sales start, she uses her own money to buy the pencils and tape and glue she'll need.

I think the worst thing about being a teacher is being constantly micromanaged by school administrators, who create make-work projects to justify their jobs. They are always requiring teachers to attend this "professional development" training, or to administer another "assessment."

[Bookworm89]

Not sure about CT, but where I live (WV) teachers don't get paid for the three months they are on vacation. They're salaried for the nine months they work. There are two options: Get paid for nine months and nothing in the summer or take less pay throughout the nine months and spread it out for twelve. Either way it's the same amount. Most teachers also spend a lot of their own money as well. The average teacher I know spends around $500 min of their own money, not including the $300 stipend they get from the schools for supplies and items for children in their classrooms. In poorer districts, they easily spend even more. And as someone else said, most teachers work well beyond the school day grading and planning, etc.

Nursing and teaching are high stress jobs. We need teachers here, so young people could come down to WV, but they don't pay anywhere near as well. Cost of living is a lot cheaper, though, so they'd be fine. ;) But don't blame them for not wanting to come here.

When I did my student teaching, I ended up having to buy pencils, paper, other supplies, games, anything I needed that the school didn't have on hand (and my supervising teacher wasn't willing to do anything extra). Most of the students "lost" pencils and couldn't work without pencils/pens etc. The day really isn't 8-3 like most people think, I had to be at the school by 7:10 for before school duty or stay till 4 for after school duty, add in any teaher meetings after school, grading (which unless the teacher only gives busy work/movies will not get done during the day). I've only substitute taught (finishing my Masters) but from all the teachers I know, they normally put in 8-10 hours a day in the job. This isn't directed at anyone, just saying what I've seen and heard around where I live.

When I saw the title of the thread, was I want to move where she is talking about but since I think that place only exists in a drug induced haze I'll pass.

[No Fun My Babe]

She's full of bullshit, as usual. Most teachers get paid a pittance compared to what they're actually worth. They work long hours, long after the school day is over. And a lot of them pay for supplies out of pocket since the economy/budget is so fucked.

They're are some crappy teachers, but also a lot of really good ones, who do all the aforementioned things. Who love to teach and get paid practically nothing for doing it. Yeah, Lori is so full of it.

[GolightlyGrrl]

She's full of bullshit, as usual. Most teachers get paid a pittance compared to what they're actually worth. They work long hours, long after the school day is over. And a lot of them pay for supplies out of pocket since the economy/budget is so fucked.

They're are some crappy teachers, but also a lot of really good ones, who do all the aforementioned things. Who love to teach and get paid practically nothing for doing it. Yeah, Lori is so full of it.

In her post, Lori claimed she worked for the LA school district. Well, we all know LA is very diverse, and I'm sure this posted a huge amount of challenges to Lori who can't quite handle people who are different than her. She's such a vapid, spoiled, condescending twat.

Oh, and she e-mailed me after I left her a comment. She said math is her thing, not English. So I guess that makes it okay she commits riffles that are so obvious, Stevie Wonder could see them.

[No Fun My Babe]

In her post, Lori claimed she worked for the LA school district. Well, we all know LA is very diverse, and I'm sure this posted a huge amount of challenges to Lori who can't quite handle people who are different than her. She's such a vapid, spoiled, condescending twat.

Word. Don't forget hypocritical. I can't believe she emailed you back. Oh wait, yes I can.

You quoted my riffle so I'm just going to fix it here. There! THERE. :lol:

So I guess that makes it okay she commits riffles that are so obvious, Stevie Wonder could see them.

[GolightlyGrrl]

I've worked with several fortune 100 companies that have people in high positions that I can not for the life of me figure out how they keep their jobs. One used to send emails that were so incomprehensible that it always took more than one person to figure out what he actually wanted. I think in most places you have to do something really really bad to be fired and even then if you know the right people you're OK. One place I worked the head of HR went to jail for manslaughter after he caused and accident that killed someone ( he intentionally cut someone off) and he still had his job when he got out.

QFT!

I've been in the workplace pretty much my entire life, and I can't believe some of the incompetent, lazy, ignorant, vindictive, unskilled and just down-right sociopathic losers who hold onto their jobs while vastly superior people are unemployed or underemployed. One of my friends worked for a small organization in which the president lied about everything on his resume-education and jobs. When the board found out they did not fire him. Nope, instead they said, "Everyone lies on their resume."

Yes, this is what you get when your board is made up of spoiled, privileged trophy wives.

[lilah]

I work as a librarian in a title one school. I'm in the salary bracket as at teacher and my salary is well above the 30,000 range because I have a masters and because I belong to a great union that recognizes that working with a difficult population of students and that hey teachers should be paid for the hard work we're doing and the out of pocket costs we pay. I don't understand why anyone would think working for peanuts will improve teacher performance.

[ems]

I also disagree with the notion that no other job allows you to stay if you are a poor worker. Every organization I've dealt with has some workers who do not do a good job. Rude checkout clerks, mechanics who go days over their original estimate of completion, doctors who misdiagnose, the chef who makes a poor meal in a restaurant and the list could go on and on. Yes, some of those people will be fired but many will continue on in their positions regardless of less than stellar performance.

On the flipside, you CAN get fired for poor performance or rule violation as a teacher. My friend's cousin did (before she got sober and when she would regularly stroll into the classroom majorly late, you get the picture.) Contrast that with the private sector, where you can get terminated "with or without cause" at any time. And look at what that led to...8% unemployment anyone? While tenure can be abused, I think a little job security is a good thing.

[lilwriter85]

In her post, Lori claimed she worked for the LA school district. Well, we all know LA is very diverse, and I'm sure this posted a huge amount of challenges to Lori who can't quite handle people who are different than her. She's such a vapid, spoiled, condescending twat.

Oh, and she e-mailed me after I left her a comment. She said math is her thing, not English. So I guess that makes it okay she commits riffles that are so obvious, Stevie Wonder could see them.

Yup it probably did. I bet during her teaching days she probably went home and whined about some of the students she had to deal. I can see her bitching about Muslim or Buddhist students. I also think Lori probably had issues when dealing with non-white students. To be fair to Lori, I've known math and science teachers who are bad at writing/English and they admit to it. I bet if some of those teachers were blogging, they would do some proof reading before posting stuff on blogs. I don't see how Lori could have so many misspellings in that post. My guess is that she has her browser spell check turned off.

[lilwriter85]

On the flipside, you CAN get fired for poor performance or rule violation as a teacher. My friend's cousin did (before she got sober and when she would regularly stroll into the classroom majorly late, you get the picture.) Contrast that with the private sector, where you can get terminated "with or without cause" at any time. And look at what that led to...8% unemployment anyone? While tenure can be abused, I think a little job security is a good thing.

I grew up in a small town and several public school teachers were fired over the years for either poor performances or rule violations. I think since my school district was smaller, it was a bit easier to weed out bad teachers. There was one awful teacher who remained in the district for over twenty years, but I think he managed to stay because he was a local who had connections to people on school boards.

[JesusFightClub]

I'd like to point out something that bugs me about Lori's rant as well. The idea the union should essentially be run for the benefit of the students.

No. This is not what a union is for.

I get this too: "Oh, you should be thinking much more of the general public! If you go out on strike it'll be so inconvenient for us!" Well, yes, this being the point of a strike. and I hadn't noticed anyone volunteering to pay my union dues for me. The union exists to safeguard its members, defend them and improve their terms and conditions, that's what they are supposed to do. Not take responsibility for everyone else's happiness. If they want that, they should join a union themselves.

That's not selfish, it's just a complete misconception of what unions do. It's like expecting firefighters to start fires, not put them out.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'd like to point out something that bugs me about Lori's rant as well. The idea the union should essentially be run for the benefit of the students.

No. This is not what a union is for.

I get this too: "Oh, you should be thinking much more of the general public! If you go out on strike it'll be so inconvenient for us!" Well, yes, this being the point of a strike. and I hadn't noticed anyone volunteering to pay my union dues for me. The union exists to safeguard its members, defend them and improve their terms and conditions, that's what they are supposed to do. Not take responsibility for everyone else's happiness. If they want that, they should join a union themselves.

That's not selfish, it's just a complete misconception of what unions do. It's like expecting firefighters to start fires, not put them out.

Yes, yes, yes! Exactly.

It always really bothers me when people complain about strikes. Whenever someone like doctors or nurses or firefighters go on strike people always talk about just how irresponsible it is, how they reckless they are being, and how just one day of strike action is going to affect everyone else's lives. They never seem to think about the more important thing: If these people are so vital to us that we cannot stand a single day without them, then why do we treat them like shit?

[itsnikki05]

What an ignorant bitch. My son goes to an all special needs k-12 school, and several of the younger teachers have 2nd jobs waiting tables, bartending, and retail. They teach our kids because they love the kids and they love learning.

I've also got 2 aunts who teach - one just retired last year in Michigan from high school english, and she *Might* make close to $50,000 after 30 years. The other one is in Indiana and makes a little over $40,000 after teaching 3rd grade for 20 years.

I don't even know any administrators (with Masters & Doctorates) who make over $100,000.

Exactly. My aunt has a second job as well, or did over the summer. If anything, teachers don't get paid ENOUGH for what they do! Of course there's some shitty teachers... there's some that are mediocre.... but there's others that are damn good! But yeah... their salary is nowhere near what she said. Not in Mississippi.

[celestial]

We only get paid for the time we are contracted to work. And in my case that means I don't get paid for a lot of time I do work. Some days I work 7:30- 3. Other days I'm working 7:30-5. And even other days I'm working 6 am-10pm. Sometimes that last thing is on a Saturday, which I don't get paid for, it's EXTRA. My insurance isn't great, and I pay for part of it (about $250 I have to cover, and next year it could go up to $400+ that I have to cover.) And the hours- well, just because I don't have students doesn't mean that I'm not working, I have prep that I have to do, and my district doesn't give all of their teachers prep time. And while we are supposed to have 1/2 hour lunch, that doesn't always happen. (just because we get 12 paychecks, doesn't mean we're paid for 12 months- it means that the districts make it easier for us to budget. When I started teaching I had a choice if I was paid for 10 or 12 months.)

My brother, with less education, makes more than I do as a public employee. He will max out at a lot more than I make. My dad was the same.

If you want to check out what teachers really make (before taxes and other required deductions are taken out, like health care and retirement) look at the district websites- I've found that the websites that claim to give accurate information aren't so accurate. But because we are public employees, its required to publish the salary schedules.

Just want to second this. Please, Katiebug, do tell who these teachers are who get all those "breaks" as paid time off? For me, and most teachers I know, breaks=unemployed. And, like Wolfie has stated, teaching is a job in which you put in a lot of hours outside of your normal work schedule. I do at least an hour of prep and grading for each hour I spend in the classroom, sometimes far more. That's what it takes to be a good teacher. I get paid for the hours I spend in the classroom and not a second more (no paid prep time, no paid vacation) but the time investment goes far beyond that.

[ADoyle90815]

Just want to second this. Please, Katiebug, do tell who these teachers are who get all those "breaks" as paid time off? For me, and most teachers I know, breaks=unemployed. And, like Wolfie has stated, teaching is a job in which you put in a lot of hours outside of your normal work schedule. I do at least an hour of prep and grading for each hour I spend in the classroom, sometimes far more. That's what it takes to be a good teacher. I get paid for the hours I spend in the classroom and not a second more (no paid prep time, no paid vacation) but the time investment goes far beyond that.

This. I basically come from a family of teachers, and my mom retired a couple of years ago. There really is no such thing as overtime for teachers as they don't get paid for all of the hours they put in outside of the classroom, and if a teacher doesn't do summer school, they're unemployed unless they get a second job. There are plenty who teach for year round districts, and when they're off track, they're unemployed for a month or however long the break is. One reason why I didn't go into teaching myself was because teachers aren't as paid as well as others, plus they're usually treated like shit.

[mockingbird]

I grew up in a small town and several public school teachers were fired over the years for either poor performances or rule violations. I think since my school district was smaller, it was a bit easier to weed out bad teachers. There was one awful teacher who remained in the district for over twenty years, but I think he managed to stay because he was a local who had connections to people on school boards.

My district has fired around 5 teachers in the last 4 or 5 years for rules violations and incompetency so it is possible even with tenure and a strong union.

It always really bothers me when people complain about strikes. Whenever someone like doctors or nurses or firefighters go on strike people always talk about just how irresponsible it is, how they reckless they are being, and how just one day of strike action is going to affect everyone else's lives. They never seem to think about the more important thing: If these people are so vital to us that we cannot stand a single day without them, then why do we treat them like shit?

:clap:

[marmalade]

When I did my student teaching, I ended up having to buy pencils, paper, other supplies, games, anything I needed that the school didn't have on hand (and my supervising teacher wasn't willing to do anything extra). Most of the students "lost" pencils and couldn't work without pencils/pens etc. The day really isn't 8-3 like most people think, I had to be at the school by 7:10 for before school duty or stay till 4 for after school duty, add in any teaher meetings after school, grading (which unless the teacher only gives busy work/movies will not get done during the day). I've only substitute taught (finishing my Masters) but from all the teachers I know, they normally put in 8-10 hours a day in the job. This isn't directed at anyone, just saying what I've seen and heard around where I live.

When I saw the title of the thread, was I want to move where she is talking about but since I think that place only exists in a drug induced haze I'll pass.

I'm a candidate for a Master's program teaching HS English and from my undergrad field work experiences observing and doing a lot of grading while class was in session, I can vouch for the extra time, effort and expenditures most teachers have, especially if you're in a big city cutting back yet again. I know that in my city, last year the teacher I worked with had 4 years experience and her job was spared. Another colleague from my intended Master's program only had two years in and got the pink slip, although she works pretty regularly as a sub. Work from about 7-4 @ the school, grading at home (or have a student teacher do it if you're lucky enough to have one). 3 month vacaycay? Hellz NO! All new advancements basic curriculum must be learned, classrooms spiffed up, etc. before school begins. Most teachers I know are working full time during most of August (school starts after Labor Day here, ending the Friday before Father's Day).

I'm older, but I found my passion when I went back to school. It's my mission to do everything I can to ensure that at-risk kids receive a quality education. Depending on the grade, it might be simply learning sentence structure, or the formation of the 5 paragraph argumentative essay. Thankfully, even the "bad" public HSs in my district all now have college track and AP courses that were only offered at the best school in the city for the last 25 years. Kids can now stay closer to home and get a quality education; even 5 years ago, college track kids went to the "good" school up in the hills, or were privately educated. Finally, the curriculum has woken up, but crowded classes (36 in one English class where I did field work) make even the best lesson plan a challenge to teach.

FWIW, with a Master's, I can expect to earn about $45-50k to start, but I live in a high income area, that's well below the median income for my region. Hell, CA didn't raise the lower limit to qualify for student loans from $50k to $75k until a couple of years ago. Even 75k is laughable for a family around here; my husband is supporting my cats and me on about $60k/yr and that's only because we've lived in the same place since 1996 and rent control is our friend. Even with the depressed housing market and my expected income in a year or so, we still won't be able to afford anything more than a 1-bedroom condo that's smaller than this 2BR apt.

No pension for me, but at least hubby is in an great union with great benefits. And fuck Lori, he works his ass off (now) 6 days a week. He'll basically sleep tomorrow away. Slackers exist in every profession , whether protected by unions or not. And in closing, the nurses in our area have been staging 1-3 day strikes over the last 2 years in order to try and gain benefits stripped from them, including their 403b (I think that's the non-profit) accounts.

[desertvixen]

I'd like to point out something that bugs me about Lori's rant as well. The idea the union should essentially be run for the benefit of the students.

No. This is not what a union is for.

I get this too: "Oh, you should be thinking much more of the general public! If you go out on strike it'll be so inconvenient for us!" Well, yes, this being the point of a strike. and I hadn't noticed anyone volunteering to pay my union dues for me. The union exists to safeguard its members, defend them and improve their terms and conditions, that's what they are supposed to do. Not take responsibility for everyone else's happiness. If they want that, they should join a union themselves.

That's not selfish, it's just a complete misconception of what unions do. It's like expecting firefighters to start fires, not put them out.

This, especially the bolded.

Unfortunately, the union has become one of the "bad guys" (because we know all those pesky things like child labor, workers working in blatantly unsafe conditions to save the company $$, overtime, reasonable wages, etc would never have been any problem because the benevolent business owners could have been trusted to do what was best for everyone, not just their own pocketbooks - riiiight) in the American employment scene. I don't belong to one myself, but any number of my family members have, and I see the good they do.

There's also a lot of people who believe that we never could go back to the bad old days, and that maybe unions were needed once, but now they're full of fat cats who just line their pockets from the workers' dues.

[asinglevoice]

I don't understand people who think like this - have they never even *met* a teacher? Like, ever?

My aunt was very fortunate in that at the time of her retirement, she made about $80,000/year - but she had a Master's degree, her administrator's license and many, many decades of experience in an extremely well-off school district, and when she retired, the economy hadn't gone in the crapper yet.

By contrast, my best friend just finished her first year of teaching K-12 music - literally all the grades in the entire district. She taught voice lessons through her prep hour and directed the high school's play, for no extra pay. She makes $31,000/year. She also works without a contract, as she's in Wisconsin, where the political climate is...stormy.

The constant finger-pointing at teachers (typically by people who have no idea what the profession demands) is getting really, really old.