Esther Shrader (Anna Duggar's sister) living in a pop up

[Guest]

How old is Esther? It looks like she may be able to give Mullet a run for her money.

She's 31, and got married when she was 20... Which means she could probably pop out 8 more... *shudder*

[ceg045]

Glad mom and baby seem to be doing OK.

That said, when should we expect the announcement of the next arrow in the quiver? Labor Day?

[Ellimenopy]

I am sooo glad that Esther and the baby are okay! I couldn't stop thinking about her and her douche husband on his juice fast. Dumbass.

[marmalade]

He was probably shitting out all the garbage in his system now that someone gifted him a fancy juicer while the baby was born. Sort of a reverse Smuggar/Anna.

I'm guessing she pulled off the homebirth. I dont see a hospital leaving a stethoscope lying around.

Birthing center? John posted that they didn't have any of the stats yet; aren't those details (and real Apgar scores) taken right after the baby has been presented to mommy, then cleaned off? Baby Sophia is already all squeaky clean here, but no statistics? Odd.

[Lillybee]

Is that a roll of TP that I see on the bed?

[lilith]

That's a chubby newborn! So glad everything turned out ok.

[Bethella]

Is that a roll of TP that I see on the bed?

I think it's paper towel

[Mama Mia]

^^^ no, the policy at a lot of hospitals now is to have the baby on the mom's chest skin to skin for the first two hours for bonding- with just mom, dad and baby in the room. They wait to do all the weighing and measuring and anything non-essential until after that. I would imagine they do the APGAR's though, probably just as non-intrusively as possible.

[Ex 2x2]

A couple of things strike me as odd. In the picture of Agape, it appears she is standing in some type of child care center. The shelving on the wall, and the multiple bins of toys, and a walker looks like it perhaps might be a church nursery. Then, in the picture of the juicer, it is obvious it is in some type of common kitchen as there is writing on the light switch plate with marker. I don't know many people who would do that in their homes. I think it is a church kitchen (I've been in plenty). Are they really living in a home, or are they staying in a church?

Good call. I hadn't noticed that, but the light switch definitely makes it seem like a church and not a home. I guess it would be ok in the sense that it would have bathrooms, a kitchen, etc but what about beds? Anything has to be better than the pop-up though!

[Dysfundamental]

I am really glad the baby was born healthy. Now she just has 18 years of toxic indoctrination ahead of her, then my hope for her is that she will escape and lead a free, joyous life! Which is my hope for all the Shrader children. Perhaps some kindly Zambians will reach out to them and show them that life doesn't have to be lived in ignorance, fear, and poverty of both body and spirit.

[already hungover]

Even the "official" stance of the American College of Obstetricians - which is extremely conservative and pro-intervention - doesn't advise intervention with a baby that is doing well until sometime during the 43rd week of pregnancy - so I really don't understand this huge" omg ! the baby is past the due date ! cut her open" thing.

It sounds from his update like it was a flu and sinus infection that was treated, they kept her at the birth center to watch her to be sure she was okay before sending her home for bed rest until she goes into labor. The baby is doing fine on the non-stress tests, and she is right at 42 weeks it sounds like - if her dates are right - so good medical care would say she is induced sometime in the next week if she doesn't go into labor on her own. She's had a lot of children and is dilating and having contractions/braxton hicks that come and go - that isn't unusual. It doesn't sound like her water has broken or is leaking. The baby being at a 0 or +1 is good. Problems come up when the baby is still high up when the water breaks because the cord is more likely to prolapse - which in an actual emergency, and is more likely to happen with induction. I had that happen to me - it was terrifying, and my child suffers from some learning difficulties and other problems that I am pretty sure were caused by the lack of oxygen while they raced to do the c-section. I would never, ever have agreed to induction without good medical cause if I had known the risks. There are risks to being overdue - but there are also risks to induction.

I understand there is an increased risk of stillbirth past 42 weeks - but even that increased risk means that 993 infants out of a thousand will be fine, as opposed to 996 infants at 40 weeks. So the people freaking out saying they can't believe this will end well seem to be really overly frantic.

I think people were worried because according to John's FB posts, her labor started a week or so ago and then stopped, plus she had chorioamnionitis. That's radically different than just being overdue.

[Mama Mia]

I think people were worried because according to John's FB posts, her labor started a week or so ago and then stopped, plus she had chorioamnionitis. That's radically different than just being overdue.

I think the speculation regarding chorioamninitis came from here, in his update it sounded more like she had the flu and he specified a sinus infection that was being treated. And contractions starting and stopping is not at all unusual towards the end.

[fundyfunland]

Wow! Really happy this ended so well for mommy & baby! I've been worried for the past week, which is odd, because I rarely give a thought to any of our fundies.

Now that Sophia is here, Esther can get back to work, homeschooling, cleaning, cooking, homemaking, and submitting. She should also be planning her blanket-training sessions ASAP, because as soon as that kid can cry, she needs a switch to her tiny hand! :cry:

[Lillybee]

I am happy that Esther had a good outcome, but please, I hope that she has more than a two year break from childbearing. I don't know how much more her body can take.

[Sola]

Regarding the bolded, I wonder if Mr. Keller feels any concern or even guilt for how his daughter and grandkids are living. As the headship of Esther before she was married, he gave approval for this loser to marry his daughter. Frankly, if fundie dads have total authority to decide who their daughters marry then IMHO they carry responsiblity for the decision. If they decide to marry their daughter off to some loser who can't support a family, who's a failure even by fundie standards, then I think it's fair to say they have some responsiblity for their living situation.

Hell no. I very much doubt he does. Remember with this mentality the only thing that counts is the man. Esther has a fine catch of a man. He is godly, quiverful and debt free. That's all that matters.

[lilith]

Good call. I hadn't noticed that, but the light switch definitely makes it seem like a church and not a home. I guess it would be ok in the sense that it would have bathrooms, a kitchen, etc but what about beds? Anything has to be better than the pop-up though!

Would any church be cool with a family of nine not only staying in their basement, but actually home birthing there? That's a pretty messy, noisy, intrusive thing to do in someone else's space.

I guess they might find it analogous with Mary giving birth in the stable cause there was no room at the inn, but I can't imagine most churches and their leadership being comfortable with it.

And would they have liability issues if Esther birthed there and something went wrong?

Also, I can't imagine them having the bathroom facilities and privacy therein that a birthing mother would require.

[sugarloaf]

Hell no. I very much doubt he does. Remember with this mentality the only thing that counts is the man. Esther has a fine catch of a man. He is godly, quiverful and debt free. That's all that matters.

This guy keeps getting his and his family's arses bailed out. I know that's not technically, legalistically debt, but I'd say that morally (according to my morals, anyway) he owes a whole bunch of people a whole lot. In debt up to his eyeballs.

[gustava]

Awww, pretending to be mommy.

[attachment=0]piv.jpg[/attachment]

Not cute at all!!! :naughty: :naughty: :naughty:

[Spider Burps]

There is actually quite a lot of evidence that missionaries building housing and sewers and other types of infastructure do more damage to communities than help. Same with teachers. It not only takes jobs from the local population, it disrupts the fabric of the community. I need to find a good article on this - but the best programs are run by NGOs who pay locals to do the infastructure work and train local teachers.

And don't even get me started on short term "missions trips". Let's go look at the orphans and bond with them and then leave them a week later! Aren't we so awesome? Those kids are so lucky we were there.

Dev83, I remember reading in college (IIRC, the class was "Water and Sustainability") about a village being given running water, washing machines, etc. because a nonprofit had heard that the women were forced to walk for miles and miles to get the water and do the wash and whatnot. Sounds peachy, right? Well, once the women were no longer able to leave their village, they found themselves without any social power; they could no longer decide as a group to say no to sex with their husbands (in order to bring about changes), they could no longer talk about who was being abused, etc. So, the women got together and destroyed the water pipes in the middle of the night and went back to walking the few miles to get the water.

That story alone was enough to teach me that top down policies tend not work--which means that, unless we* are going and hanging out with people in developing nations and -asking- what they want, we're probably just wasting our time and money, and insulting the indigenous peoples by telling them what we think "know" they need.

*by "we" I mean "people from developed nations"

[apple1]

^^^ no, the policy at a lot of hospitals now is to have the baby on the mom's chest skin to skin for the first two hours for bonding- with just mom, dad and baby in the room. They wait to do all the weighing and measuring and anything non-essential until after that. I would imagine they do the APGAR's though, probably just as non-intrusively as possible.

Not true. Legitimate hospitals and birthing centers do Apgar scores at one and five minutes after birth.

Besides, the baby in the photo has been cleaned up. Usually they are weighed and measured (which doesn't take long anyway) at the same time they are cleaned up, then they are returned to the mom. They don't wait 2 hours to do all this.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Aaaawwww Sophia is so cute, and I am so glad it all went well.

John, go get a real job to support this beautiful little baby and all of her eleventy billion siblings. A missionary is not a real job, it causes more harm than good, and going to Zambia just isnt feasible with 8 kids. Its selfish to be putting all your money towards it when youre homeless and have 8 kids under 10, it would be selfish to pull your children on this trip with you and take them away from everything theyve ever known. Wait til the kids leave home, and then you can go.

[Joan of Snarc]

Not cute at all!!! :naughty: :naughty: :naughty:

That picture made me so sad. The little girl probably thinks a mom's entire life is pregnancy, birthing and breastfeeding. Wash, rinse, repeat. :(

[valsa]

That picture made me so sad. The little girl probably thinks a mom's entire life is pregnancy, birthing and breastfeeding. Wash, rinse, repeat. :(

Plus it's not a very accurate picture either. If she were really "playing Mommy" (ie- playing the life her own mother has), she should be peaking her head out of, like, a dog house being wheeled around in a wagon, with half a dozen other little baby dolls hanging off her skirt, and a juice-drinking toddler boy acting like an insensitive asshole towards her in the background.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I think the speculation regarding chorioamninitis came from here, in his update it sounded more like she had the flu and he specified a sinus infection that was being treated. And contractions starting and stopping is not at all unusual towards the end.

She tested positive for Strep B and had infections going on, she was ill, she was in labor, and for all we knew she was being treated by someone who had as much experience as Jill Duggar. From the info we had, and then the radio silence, it seemed much worse than it actually was. We all probably hopped onto the ISB prematurely, but we also knew that the odds of this woman going to a hospital if she needed to were slim. It could have very easily gone the other way, and I'm certainly happy it didn't.

[RosyDaisy]

I'm so relieved that Esther and Sophia are ok. On the negative side, this is yet another child living in poverty and indoctrinated in fundamentalist Christianity. Poor thing, I feel so bad for her.