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"The Conflict" - Myth of the Perfect Mother


tropaka

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Some of these online mommies really sink every single iota of their self image into how they parent. They lose themselves into being a "mommy" and then there is nothing left. I can't imagine what kind of pressure this puts on the child when they grow into adults. Now that Mommy can no longer base her self worth on cloth diapering/making organic baby food from scratch, what then?

This- I don't have kids, but I remember my mom clearly had a life that wasn't all "mommy" activities. She also was totally devoted to us. I see many people who only do mommy things, only go to activities with other moms, ect. But what scares me even more are the ones who as soon as their infant starts to become a toddler, want another baby. (and do all they can to get it.)

ETA- I see this with my cousin's wife. My sister and I are waiting for the third child to be announced, and also are slightly annoyed at the copying that happens, I am constantly making clothing and diapers/covers where it is age appropriate for my nieces and nephews, so my cousin's wife suddenly started sewing for her kids- it went from "Oh the baby is almost potty trained" to "Look at this new diaper I made!" The older child has some delays as it is. We're all hoping he catches up, but right now it's really difficult to go to family gatherings where the two kids will be running around, the older one mostly unsupervised and the younger one smothered.

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To whoever wrote this stupid book: I had the perfect mother. No I wasn't breastfed, yes Mama used cloth diapers (this was 1969, so I don't think disposable diapers were in stores, but she used disposables on my sis). She was always there when I needed her. She didn't try to be my best friend, she was my mother. She was the authority figure I needed (not to strict or too lenient) to help guide me and comfort me. Anyway, I don't need to read your stinking book telling me perfect mothers are a myth!

:angry-soapbox:

Sorry, I just loved my mother so much, and she was taken from us too soon, even though sis & I were grown women with lives of our own. I was so upset, I sought grief counseling.

ETA: I'm speaking of my own relationship with my mother. I do realize there are less than perfect and downright shitty mothers out there.

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My sister just had a baby on Thursday. She wanted to go completely natural for the birth but had a hard time and got Stadol that only lasted about an hour and then got an epi when things got really bad. Found out right after they placed the epidural (which was never really able to give her relief) that she had dilated from "almost 4" to "we're calling the doctor soon, you're at 9" in AN HOUR. Um, talk about a hell of a hard time there!

She kept apologizing both then and then after that she was a "wimp" for getting meds and not being able to do it. Holy crap did I feel bad that she was putting herself on this guilt trip. Encouraged her that this is NOT a competition and that she doesn't get extra credit for doing something or not doing something else - nurses all agreed but my sis had a hard time believing it. She was then really hard on herself that her milk wasn't in (niece was induced 4 weeks early due to blood pressure issues) and today almost lost it. :(

Luckily, things got better this afternoon/evening but it makes me so mad that she feels like she has to to X or Y to be a good mom. She already is an amazing mom and this stuff, like others have said, only serve to divide women. The only competition going on here is who is the better aunt - myself or my brother-in-law's aunts (who were a huge part of raising him). Right now, I'm winning. ;)

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I got totally reamed on Facebook when I posted a picture of BabyKay in the stroller.

I've gotta ask (as a mom who LOVED slings and baby carriers, but had a stroller, a umbrella stroller, AND a double stroller) what is the big deal with strollers? Mine aren't babies anymore, so believe it or not I haven't heard that one yet.

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I've gotta ask (as a mom who LOVED slings and baby carriers, but had a stroller, a umbrella stroller, AND a double stroller) what is the big deal with strollers? Mine aren't babies anymore, so believe it or not I haven't heard that one yet.

I'm dying to know the answer to this one, too. My two are in their 20's now, so it's been awhile since I had to think about things like breast vs bottle and all the rest of it.

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I'm dying to know the answer to this one, too. My two are in their 20's now, so it's been awhile since I had to think about things like breast vs bottle and all the rest of it.

Cloth diapering is the big thing I hear now. It's great if you can do it, but I wouldn't have even considered it. Just wasn't my deal.

I was edgy in my postpartum days....if someone had reamed me over a stroller I'd have told them to fuck off.

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I'm really glad it's getting better for military moms - my few friends who had babies in the military, it was when we were all in our early 20s, so nearly 20 years ago now.

And the thing with the bad boss locking everyone out...that's a bad boss. I have a friend whose boss crashes their computer system downloading porn all the time, and I had a boss who routinely jiggered the phone system to pretend he'd logged in on time when he hadn't. Seems like those are all HR/having a written policy issues more than specific to the person's reason for disrupting everything is (Mr. Roll In Late and Be An Asshole did give me a bias against people who play WoW all the time, though.)

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I had NO idea that strollers were the new formula (sarcasm for the veterans of the breast vs. formula wars). When BoyKay was born 8 years ago, babywearing was cool, but strollers were also getting seriously cool, with the crazy new styles and "must have" strollers coming out. Now, from what I understand, you HAVE to wear your baby.

Does the baby have colic?

- The baby needs to bond. You must wear the baby.

Does the baby go to daycare?

The baby needs to bond. You must wear the baby at home to bond and make up for "missed" time (I shit you not, just one more idea to make a working mom feel like shit).

Breastfeeding problems?

- WEAR THE BABY!!! Wearing the baby 24/7 will boost milk supply. Bonding helps this for some reason. If you don't wear the baby, you're not dedicated to breastfeeding.

Can't put the baby down without it freaking out?

The baby needs to bond - you must wear the baby.

Are you the non-Mommy parental unit?

The baby must bond - you must wear the baby.

Can't lose the baby weight?

Don't be a lazy cow. You must wear the baby.

Do you care at all about the baby?

Then you MUST wear the baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every parenting issue can be solved if you just wear the baby!!!

FUCK. THAT. NOISE.

I love baby carriers. But my back hurts, and I have an awesome stroller. Not gonna wear the baby.

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It's so much worse on the internet. Now that my friends who had babies when I did have bigger kids (like mine, who's 6) I get to hear them tell TOTAL LIES about their excellent parenting. But in person it's easy to just be all "You know, I have pictures of your house from that time period, I think sleep deprivation affected your memory of how much got done." On the internet nobody can see that Ms. Perfect Mommy is propping a bottle so she can type more on the message board.

I'm sure I do it too (though I have no illusions that I was efficient or super copeful as a new mom.) A friend has a 6 month old and when she asks me questions about when my son did different things I literally have no idea. I have to look it up on the calendar I kept because that whole first year is a big smooshy fuzzy ball of sleep deprivation and chaos.

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I can't begin to describe the total hell I got for not breastfeeding my girls. By liberals and conservatives. It was as if I'd decided to feed them literal poison. I didn't care how other people fed their children, as long as they were well cared for. Yet I was treated like a demon. So, so, so glad I'm past that stage of life. When my mom was young, a lot of women formula fed - it was no big deal. But everyone wanted to weigh in on my choice. I wonder what it will be like when my daughters are old enough to be mothers. What expectations will be made of them?

A good friend of mine from college also really pushed breast feeding on me when I had my son. I had to return to work when he was 8 weeks old, and I tried to pump breastmilk in the communal bathroom in my office building - but it was simply a no go. So my son went to a combo bottle/breast at that point, until at around 6 months it was entirely bottle. My friend literally dunned me about the breast feeding and it ended up driving a real wedge between us. Whether my son is just genetically lucky, or the brief breast-feeding helped, I don't know - but he has no allergies, had only a few ear infections, and is in generally excellent health. I wish my former friend hadn't busted my chops so much, since in the end, my son seems none the worse for having missed out on an entire year of 100% breast feeding.

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To whoever wrote this stupid book: I had the perfect mother. No I wasn't breastfed, yes Mama used cloth diapers (this was 1969, so I don't think disposable diapers were in stores, but she used disposables on my sis). She was always there when I needed her. She didn't try to be my best friend, she was my mother. She was the authority figure I needed (not to strict or too lenient) to help guide me and comfort me. Anyway, I don't need to read your stinking book telling me perfect mothers are a myth!

:angry-soapbox:

Sorry, I just loved my mother so much, and she was taken from us too soon, even though sis & I were grown women with lives of our own. I was so upset, I sought grief counseling.

I'm glad you had such a wonderful mother and completely understand your deep grief when she passed on. My mom had 8 children and 2 miscarriages. She didn't breast feed any of us (it wasn't encouraged in those days), but she bottle fed us, rocked us to sleep in the night, washed countless cloth diapers, laughed at our silly jokes, encouraged our dreams, listened to our fears and griefs, and was our constant supporter. (She's still with us, in her 80's, and still always eager to talk and to listen, to offer an encouraging word and a loaf of homemade bread.)

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Cloth diapering is the big thing I hear now. It's great if you can do it, but I wouldn't have even considered it. Just wasn't my deal.

I was edgy in my postpartum days....if someone had reamed me over a stroller I'd have told them to fuck off.

I usually wait until I read thru the whole thread before I post. But I saw this and had to say this is the appropriate response to this prying bullshit, post partum or not. All moms should learn how to say fuck off loudly and often. If you're not comfortable with fuck off, maybe "mind your own goddam business" might work for you.

Also thought it was interesting that some of the partners who turned out to be not so great stuck up for moms and babies like they did. Not a good reflection on doc's and nurses is it?

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I've thought about this topic for awhile and while I disagree with some of what she says, I do believe that what she calls "modern motherhood" does seem to limit women's choices in that women put so much pressure on other women to "do" motherhood a certain way. It wasn't as bad when my babies were babies, and I am very glad not have babies now, because I'd probably end up punching people.

You are not a bad mother if:

you don't breastfeed

you use disposable diapers sometimes (or all the time)

you don't co-sleep

you don't strap your baby to your body every moment of the day

you use a stroller sometimes

you don't make your own baby food

you work outside the home

If you think it's your place to tout your way as the best/only way, or to tell other mothers what they should be doing, you're a crappy person. Feminism is about choices and not respecting other women's legitimate choices is anti-feminist.

IMO, there are many ways to "mother" and end up with healthy, well-adjusted children.

Why is there such a need for black/white thinking these days? My kids are grown. I did a combination of breast and bottle because I worked full time and that was most practical. Co-sleeping was not encouraged, but happened if a child was going through a particularly needy time or I was to exhausted to care for them in the night any other way. I did strap my babies to me when they needed to be held and I needed hands free. The stroller was used for walks and the mall. I sometimes made food we had into baby food, but liberally used the commercial varieties. I worked full time and never stopped. Life is about choices. For a number of years life was kids and work. When they started to grow up a bit, social activities and hobbies gradually came into the picture. I do think that marriage suffered. But I chose husbands really poorly and I honestly think that the latter issue killed the marriages more than the limited time to devote.

It doesn't need to be this black and white. I totally agree that workplaces should incorporate family healthier living into their business model...this extends to being family friendly. In the end, fostering the health of the next generation is good for business. Babies and children are, by definition, continually changing. There simply cannot be a one size fits all approach.

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I'm dying to know the answer to this one, too. My two are in their 20's now, so it's been awhile since I had to think about things like breast vs bottle and all the rest of it.

I got shit for it with the attachment crowd. They were also pretty pissed that my baby slept in her own bed in her own room. Here's the deal though guys, she would NOT sleep through the night in our room. I toss and turn and it woke her up. She stayed in there for a few months when she was still young enough to need to feed at night, fine. When she got older though I realized that I was the reason she didn't sleep through the night and I put her little bed in the hallway and she slept fine...then I moved her to her room and mostly she slept through the night. Kids are different. Every single one is different. We're no "less bonded" because she slept in her own room. We're very close. She still can't sleep with other people around, she has trouble at summer camp. I had to buy her some sleeping ear muffs!

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that whole first year is a big smooshy fuzzy ball of sleep deprivation and chaos.

This is sooooo true. I remember being so tired, especially the first time around.

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I'll be the voice of dissent and say that the article pissed me off.

Why? Because she's criticizing the whole idea of imposing these outside standards and expectations on mothers....and then proceeds to impose her own different, outside standards on them instead. Pot, meet kettle.

You know what? Babies take work, regardless of what choices are made. The only "myth" is that what works for one family will necessarily help all families.

This doesn't end mommy wars. It just adds ammo to another side. Women need to find out how to get the practical info and support that they need, and shut out useless outside noise while they focus on what works for them and their families.

Re feeding:

Guess what? ALL new babies require tons of time and effort, around the clock, with feeding. Women don't need useless guilt trips, but they do need complete, honest information and proper advice and support. Attacking the largest breastfeeding support group worldwide as "ayatollahs" is not helpful, unless you have someone else to recommend. Getting a new mom who is likely exhausted to view herself as a cow, being subjected to the "despotism of the insatiable child", is not helpful. In fact, it sounds frighteningly close to "hungry babies are evil and demanding" philosophy of fundie parenting quacks like Gary Ezzo, who promise baby scheduling for parental convenience but have left a legacy of children with failure to thrive. It's far more useful to point out techniques that can make breastfeeding far less stressful (proper positioning to avoid pain, good feeding pillows, learning safe ways to breastfeed in bed while napping, using a sling to nurse on the go, ways to introduce a bottle without causing nipple confusion), and put women in a position to make a truly informed decision. Proper bottle feeding also requires effort - it's just a different kind of effort (buying and preparing formula, cleaning and sterilizing bottles, shlepping the stuff around when going out with baby, etc.).

Re sleeping:

Sure, there's the odd freak baby (like my 3rd), who actually sleeps well, but there's a reason that new parents tend to complain of exhaustion. Parents need to be encouraged to do whatever works to allow maximum sleep for parents and baby, as long as everyone is likely to be alive in the morning. Once again, though, the author doesn't stop with "do whatever works", but goes on to bash co-sleeping as bad for couples. Well, you know what was bad for hubby and I? The fact that I turned into a walking zombie before co-sleeping with baby #1, since she would scream until she puked in her crib and I would have to pace the corridors with her from 1 a.m. to 5 a.m. every night. When hubby woke up for work, I tended to greet him with "if you wake the baby, you die."

Re work:

Yet again, parents should do whatever works for their family. But again, instead of telling mothers to ignore the outside noise, she adds to it with gems like this:

So young women are saying, “I have a job but I’ll stop for two or three years to raise my child, because I want to give him the best.†I fear that this modern-mother movement is a step backwards, simply because if it carries the day, then I don’t see how we’ll attain equality between the sexes, or equal salaries, or the independence of women.

It's a different guilt trip - but a guilt trip nonetheless. Seriously, why the fuck should a new mother feel compelled to avoid doing something that happens to work for her and her family, simply because random French woman has declared that she's setting all women back?

Re fathers:

She's making a straw man argument. Attachment parenting doesn't say that fathers are useless for the first year. She also ignores the fact that we have dads who are more actively involved with their babies - wearing them in the baby carriers and taking parental leave and taking on active parenting duties - than they were in the past.

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When my boys were born, 7 and 10 years ago, breastfeeding was encouraged--by my midwives, WIC counselors, pediatrician, etc. BUT, as part of a little diaper bag gift all new parents were given at this particular hospital, were several tiny bottles of formula, and you could get more from the nurses on request. Never was I denied formula or felt that I was not being a good mother when bottle feeding. Either the Mommy Wars were not in full swing or I was oblivious to what others thought. I don't know. Natural birth was also a suggestion and preferred over any sort of pain control, but when I asked for meds, I was quickly given meds. I do remember one mean nurse, who scolded me for calling for help when I couldn't get up into the bed while holding the baby. I was only 19 at the time, am rather short anyway, had stitches from where I tore during delivery, and for some reason had no family with me that day. She said I needed to learn to do things myself since I would have no help once I got home with the baby. She was a bitch for sure, but I see now how she was encouraging independence. Life's lessons learned, I guess.

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When my boys were born, 7 and 10 years ago, breastfeeding was encouraged--by my midwives, WIC counselors, pediatrician, etc. BUT, as part of a little diaper bag gift all new parents were given at this particular hospital, were several tiny bottles of formula, and you could get more from the nurses on request. Never was I denied formula or felt that I was not being a good mother when bottle feeding. Either the Mommy Wars were not in full swing or I was oblivious to what others thought. I don't know. Natural birth was also a suggestion and preferred over any sort of pain control, but when I asked for meds, I was quickly given meds. I do remember one mean nurse, who scolded me for calling for help when I couldn't get up into the bed while holding the baby. I was only 19 at the time, am rather short anyway, had stitches from where I tore during delivery, and for some reason had no family with me that day. She said I needed to learn to do things myself since I would have no help once I got home with the baby. She was a bitch for sure, but I see now how she was encouraging independence. Life's lessons learned, I guess.

That nurse was still a bitch. You're perfectly entitled to ask for help, esp. since you don't want to drop the baby or rip open stitches.

I ended up returning to the ER within hours of being discharged following my c-section from hell. It became obvious that I NEEDED help at home, so we bit the bullet and hired someone for a few weeks until I was able to walk and carry the baby.

Re breastfeeding and formula: It's a national and regional thing. American hospitals still tend to give formula samples, but those bags from formula companies aren't allowed in most Canadian or European hospitals (although I found that formula was available on request). There is a concern - some of it quite legitimate - that hospitals should not be cooperating in the marketing of a commercial product, esp. if that marketing effort may have been designed to sabotage breastfeeding mothers.

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Quick guide for any mother who may encounter the Mommy Wars:

Identify the person with the advice, question or demand.

Is it:

-you?

- your child?

- the actively-involved other parent of the child?

If so, the opinion matters and should be considered. If not, is the person

- a mandated reporter in your child's life? (Doctor, nurse, teacher, daycare provider, etc.)

- a social worker from a child protection agency?

If so, you can't simply tell them to fuck off. Instead, listen politely to what they have to say, answer any legitimate questions, take any information given especially if it relates to matters of health and safety or the law, do any of your own research, and make an informed decision.

If not, is the person

- someone who has anything useful to contribute in terms of practical advice

- someone who is not likely to be full of shit or judgmental

If so, then listen if you want to, take what you can use, and ignore the rest.

If not, is the person

- nosy

- judgmental

- full of outdated advice that is useless or even dangerous

- annoying

- a talk-show host

- your mother-in-law

If so, feel free to tell them to fuck off. If that would cause family grief, MYOB also works.

If not, you can still ignore the noise and do whatever you feel is right.

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[?quote]Re breastfeeding and formula: It's a national and regional thing. American hospitals still tend to give formula samples, but those bags from formula companies aren't allowed in most Canadian or European hospitals (although I found that formula was available on request). There is a concern - some of it quite legitimate - that hospitals should not be cooperating in the marketing of a commercial product, esp. if that marketing effort may have been designed to sabotage breastfeeding mothers.

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I remember Mama telling me she tried to breastfeed me, but couldn't. She got really sick after I was born and her doctor told her not to breastfeed while taking the medicine. From that point forward she never tried it again. I was a relatively health baby. Many years later my sis decided she did not want to breastfeed from the get to. She had already discussed her decision with her pediatrician, and he supported her and told her what formulas to use. The lactation specialists & nurses were relentless in trying convince her to breastfeed. She then told them to get the fuck out of her room (those were her exact words). They never came back...LOL! I do believe it's a personal choice each mother has to make, and it's nobody's business as long as the baby is getting proper nutrition.

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The only mother's I judge are those that leave their kids dirty, neglect them, starve them, and beat them, or let them run wild in public. Other than that, it would be hypocritical for me to even remotely hint at telling a mother how to raise her kids since I don't have any myself.

ETA: But I do have a problem with the fundamentalist who try to tell everybody their way is God's way and therefore the only way.

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Who was it that used to weigh in on all of the breastfeeding posts? I'm waiting....

The biggest argument I ever got into online was over breastfeeding. I was on a private board, and one of the ladies had just give birth to a little one that was tongue tied. She was having a really hard time getting him to latch on, but she felt guilty giving him a bottle. I told her that in the grand scheme of things I didn't think it would make a hill of beans, and that they would probably both be better off if they didn't have the stress of trying to force something that wasn't working.

Good lord, you'd that thought I suggested she not feed the child. They went nuts. I am all for breastfeeding if that's what you want to do. I breastfed my own children. But for god's sake I could care less weather the lady next door uses formula or not. Who cares?

When I had my daughter she was born hungry. Bless her heart, she came ready to eat. After a bit I decided that the colostrum just wasn't going to cut it for her, so I requested the nurse bring me a bottle until my milk came in so I could supplement. I had nurse after nurse come in to try to convince me she'd get confused if I gave her a bottle. I finally told them if they didn't go get me a bottle I would send my husband out for one and file a formal complaint with the hospital. Put a quick end to their non-sense. I kept her on a bottle (after nursing) for the first 3 days, and after that my supply was strong enough.

This is what I've experienced, too. I exclusively breastfed all of my children for a full year, so I am clearly a fan, but there is a tyranny of breastfeeding "advocates" in the mommy world who lose their minds if someone suggests anything other than exclusive breastfeeding for whatever period of time they've deemed appropriate. I've seen women call other women "liars" when they've tried to explain why breastfeeding doesn't work for them. Some of these women know no bounds in their "support" of breastfeeding and it their behavior is anything but feminist.

So while I do believe there is a lot of progress yet to be made in the workplace (and the public square in general), there is plenty of pressure applied to women to breastfeed outside of the workplace. God forbid you're a SAHM who does not breastfeed. The only "good-enough" excuse to some of these tyrants is that you've adopted, and I saw one convo where even then, the "advocates" were saying that the mother should have been using some special feeding tube device that delivered formula to the baby while the baby "nursed" and that with enough of that stimulation, the adoptive mother would begin to lactate. While I don't doubt that is possible at all, I don't believe it should be considered incumbent upon adoptive mothers to bf, ffs.

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This is what I've experienced, too. I exclusively breastfed all of my children for a full year, so I am clearly a fan, but there is a tyranny of breastfeeding "advocates" in the mommy world who lose their minds if someone suggests anything other than exclusive breastfeeding for whatever period of time they've deemed appropriate. I've seen women call other women "liars" when they've tried to explain why breastfeeding doesn't work for them. Some of these women know no bounds in their "support" of breastfeeding and it their behavior is anything but feminist.

So while I do believe there is a lot of progress yet to be made in the workplace (and the public square in general), there is plenty of pressure applied to women to breastfeed outside of the workplace. God forbid you're a SAHM who does not breastfeed. The only "good-enough" excuse to some of these tyrants is that you've adopted, and I saw one convo where even then, the "advocates" were saying that the mother should have been using some special feeding tube device that delivered formula to the baby while the baby "nursed" and that with enough of that stimulation, the adoptive mother would begin to lactate. While I don't doubt that is possible at all, I don't believe it should be considered incumbent upon adoptive mothers to bf, ffs.

First, anyone that rude should be told that there is no need to be a "liar" or justify anyone to them because their opinions don't matter to anyone else.

Second, I've seen situations where common sense and good advice can take a back seat to ideological purity. Formula supplementation and vitamin D drops are two examples of this. I understand the science of discouraging formula supplementation if there are concerns that the milk supply will be affected, but sometimes, a tiny bit of supplementation is the help that a mom or baby needs to get over a hump. 24 hours after my first c-section, when my milk hadn't come in yet and my baby was screaming in hunger and my nipples were bleeding (FAR more painful than the c-section), I was ready to give up, and was lucky enough to get a nurse that just gave us a tiny cup with some formula. My friend with the same issue got a hardliner, and ended up thinking that she had to switch entirely to formula as a result. I've also seen massive hand-wringing over recommendations that Canadian breastfed babies get vitamin D drops, since this could suggest that breastmilk isn't 100% perfect. Get a grip - vitamin D deficiency in infants in northern latitudes is a real problem, even if it doesn't affect every single child, and the recommendations were perfectly justified.

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This is a subject that is near and dear to me because I have dealt with a lot of strife over the last year. My mother and my sister were both lactation goddesses. I wanted to breast feed, because I wanted my son to have (imo) the best, and it's a helluva lot cheaper than buying formula. I could not produce enough milk. At all. I could only make 4 oz a day (at the very most, normally I was making 2-3). My mother was convinced I was doing something wrong. No, not really, latch was perfect, baby was suckling, used a beast pump, you just can't get blood from a stone, so to speak.

I never wanted to use cloth diapers, the idea eeks me out, I think it's gross, I don't want poop in my washing machine-a variety of reasons, but the main point is I didn't want to use the damn thing. I was wasting money and being a bad mom.

I went back to work 2 weeks after birth. I brought the baby with me, because I had no options. I used up all the vacation I was allotted and could not afford to take off any extra time. No day care around will take a baby that small, and I didn't want him around other howler monkeys before he had any vaccinations. My mother (who watches him during the day now) was too nervous around him being so little. Obviously, I should quit my job and stay at home, that is a mother's job, even if the electricity gets cut off because her check is paying the bill.

I went on a lot of emotional ups and downs until I finally realized that being a good mom has nothing to do with what society says, it has to do with my son being happy, having the things he needs, the things I want him to have, and me being happy.

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