Are milk cows supposed to be this skinny?

[kb2]

I would assume it has to do with the type of parasite and even then, pasteurization would kill some of them.

He's a germ theory denialist and doesn't think it's in God's plan to pasteurize milk:

http://www.tothelastditch.com/uncategorized/germ-theory-vs-terrain-theory

I mean, any number of things could make the milk safe. Maybe the milk cow never had parasites, or got treated for them already. Maybe the parasites aren't secreted into the milk. Maybe the parasites are not capable of surviving in humans. Maybe they make sure the udders are really clean and not contaminated by stool even though they believe germs aren't the cause of disease. :roll:

I would rather buy previously fecally-contaminated pasteurized milk from a grocery store than raw milk* from a germ denialist who has no experience with his cows having parasites. But, to each his own. (I don't know if he sells the milk, just hypothetically speaking.)

*Not bashing raw milk in general, but germ theory denial + food disturbs me.

ETA: Sorry I don't have anything fun to say about raising cows.

[PennySycamore]

Happy cows= less stress and less stress= meat thats not as tough. So you want your cows to be happy and healthy before you send them to be turned into hamburger and steaks.

I personally don't want cows turned into hamburgers and steaks. That's one of the reasons I'm a vegetarian. :D

[JaChelle Sugar]

when I saw the title I thought it meant like 'why buy the cow' kind of cow. Wouldn't be far from fundie thinking.

[MaroonMandy]

I have no problem with raw milk; if that's what floats your boat them by all means go for it. But you need to know where the milk is coming from and the condition of the cows; there is no way in hell I'd drink anything from his cows. Anyone who does is just asking for trouble.

[BelieveinScience]

I think they just take bad care of their animals vs. it being the parasite causing the skinny issue.

Look at the cow in this post from 2010- If I did my math right shes currently 7months pregnant in the picture (cows gestation is 9.5ish months)

http://www.tothelastditch.com/agrarian/farm-happenings

http://www.tothelastditch.com/agrarian/a-little-announcement

I'm sorry but an animal should not be that skinny right after giving birth. I went through my pics of the cows I work with right after they gave birth and they look nothihng like that.

[debrand]

He's a germ theory denialist and doesn't think it's in God's plan to pasteurize milk:

http://www.tothelastditch.com/uncategor ... ain-theory

I mean, any number of things could make the milk safe. Maybe the milk cow never had parasites, or got treated for them already. Maybe the parasites aren't secreted into the milk. Maybe the parasites are not capable of surviving in humans. Maybe they make sure the udders are really clean and not contaminated by stool even though they believe germs aren't the cause of disease. :roll:

I would rather buy previously fecally-contaminated pasteurized milk from a grocery store than raw milk* from a germ denialist who has no experience with his cows having parasites. But, to each his own. (I don't know if he sells the milk, just hypothetically speaking.)

*Not bashing raw milk in general, but germ theory denial + food disturbs me.

ETA: Sorry I don't have anything fun to say about raising cows.

Wait. He denies the existence of germs?

[formergothardite]

So, honestly, this post makes me laugh a little.

The writer does say that he mismanaged the pasture rotations (did you read the post?) and the cows have parasites, which is a new problem for him that he's never encountered. In case you wonder about cows & parasites let me explain:

Cow & Parasites = skinny

p.s. I'm not saying that this guy is anything great. Just that I wouldn't be too concerned about the cow. If she gets too skinny, she'll stop producing milk. I promise.

He said they got them last winter and that is why they lost one calf. I would have assumed any decent sort of cow owner would have treated the parasites by now. I've only treated dogs and it doesn't take that long. How long does it take cows to be treated?

[MaroonMandy]

Wait. He denies the existence of germs?

What he's saying (I think, because I just scanned) it that bacteria and germs do exist, but they won't hurt healthy cells. Instead, they will be attracted to weak, unhealthy cells. Also, germs and bacteria are present at the site of sickness/disease/infection/whatever because they're attracted to those cells, not because they caused the sickness/disease/infection/whatever.

[emmiedahl]

That is just not true. Viruses, for example, are a germ and will go after any cell with the receptors for them.

[deelaem]

The dairy cow in the last picture is definitely too thin. See how high her hips jut out? And you shouldn't be able to see ribs so clearly all the way down. The others look "ok" but not great. Something tells me there may be some veterinary problems going on, but you know they either don't have or won't shell out money for a large animal vet.

[donks]

I was thinking Guernsey also. Guernsey cows tend to be a little thin, but not like that. Here is a pic I found of an "ideal" Guernsey cow. My grandmother preferred Jersey cows, she felt the milk was better, but I have seen plenty of both.

This still looks like a thin cow to me (the one in the picture) just because of the hip bones, but it is plumper than the one on the blog.

Great pic! That's what I meant by 'angular'.

[MaroonMandy]

That is just not true. Viruses, for example, are a germ and will go after any cell with the receptors for them.

Yes, but you're using the ebil science, so clearly your point is invalid. :roll:

These people make my eye twitch.

[CanadianHippie]

That is just not true. Viruses, for example, are a germ and will go after any cell with the receptors for them.

That's just what big pharma wants you to believe! If you believe that it means they can sell you poisons like antibiotics for strep or hand soap for washing up after you go to the bathroom. What gets me is all of the germ theory denialists I've met get sick way more often than I, the borderline obsessive about not spreading germs person, do.

[superzsa]

He said they got them last winter and that is why they lost one calf. I would have assumed any decent sort of cow owner would have treated the parasites by now. I've only treated dogs and it doesn't take that long. How long does it take cows to be treated?

It can take awhile, unfortunately.

We actually had a cow one time that got terribly skinny, all the sudden. Had no idea what caused the problem so we called the vets. They treated her and did tests and never did figure out what was wrong. She lived for over a year (before we sold her) and was just this terribly skinny thing. There really was nothing that could be done about it.

In fact, we ended up losing a ton of money on her. (have you called a large animal vet lately? ah! :o )

Hopefully they get her treated, if the parasites are the problem. But, truthfully, just getting out on pasture (which it looks like they have a lot of) will help tremendously.

[donks]

Last time I had a horse emergency it was 80 bucks for him to drive into my yard.

It was worth every cent, unlike these fundie assholes I care about my animals!

[teddybear]

There is also Johnes disease, which causes cows to become very skinny like this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paratuberculosis

[chaotic life]

He says they are struggling with parasites, which would make for skinny cows. I know next to nothing about milk cows. All of my experience is with beef cattle. Never saw a beef cow that skinny, but every cow I've ever seen in Latin America is that skinny, even the milk producers.

Don't think I would be trusting his cows and their milk though. Don't trust anyone who thinks bacteria won't invade healthy cells. My double lung pneumonia after getting influenza this winter says otherwise.

[longskirtlotsakids]

I was on the dairy judging team at UW- Madison, so really, I just might not know what I am talking about here. You guys, sorry, I think you are overreacting. I snorted when i saw someone say they should be reported for "keeping animals like this." you KIDDING me? They should be reported for keeping a cow out on a large grassy pasture? Really? Unless they are beating the hell out of the cow (which I doubt since it just stands there to be milked) there is no better life for a cow.

As far as body score, you can;t get a close enough look at her from that angle. Althgough if had to guess i would guess 2as well.

Also, any vet will tell you, managing parasites does not mean your cow will be worm free. It means keeping the worms at a decent low level, which usually happens naturally in a healthy animal that's well fed. (I know- horse owners are gonna freak if I claim that Tiddums doesn't need deworming every 6 weeks. Well he doesn't. Twice a year with a broad spectrum is fine. Oh, and this overdeworming is bad for groundwater and it's causing resistance.)

That cow looks FINE. She is living in cow paradise. That organic milk you pay $6 a gallon for? Yeah, news flash, that came from a cow that has NEVER been dewormed, vaccinated, or treated for anything. Same with organic meat, too.

Someone said that a cow shouldn't look like that after giving birth? That is when a cow is most likely to look like hell. They give a lot of their energy towards milk, that's why it is called a dairy cow. That cow could just be a naturally skinny cow.

I really support self farming by and for the family, and animals are not people, you guys, Horses do not want to live in stalls, and cows are happy as long as they have pasture and room. Honestly.

And oh-those hereford Brahma crosses...Boy, they are cute looking cattle. They would not fare well here in WI though, those cute ears would freeze right off...

[StarrieEyedKat]

I was on the dairy judging team at UW- Madison, so really, I just might not know what I am talking about here. You guys, sorry, I think you are overreacting. I snorted when i saw someone say they should be reported for "keeping animals like this." you KIDDING me? They should be reported for keeping a cow out on a large grassy pasture? Really? Unless they are beating the hell out of the cow (which I doubt since it just stands there to be milked) there is no better life for a cow. I mean what, you want to see it in a living room? Or you just prefer that they stay in those big CAFO barns with cement floors so you don't have to look at them?

Did I miss something? Who said that the cow shouldn't be in a pasture? I'm pretty sure that commenter was referring to the health of the cow, not it's living conditions.

[Clementine]

That cow looks FINE. She is living in cow paradise. That organic milk you pay $6 a gallon for? Yeah, news flash, that came from a cow that has NEVER been dewormed, vaccinated, or treated for anything. Same with organic meat, too.

I don't know the rules for selling "organic" milk in the US, but here it doesn't mean that organic animals never get veterinary treatments. It means that they are treated if necessary, sometimes with natural remedies, sometimes with traditional medicine, and then they will be in some kind of quarantine until the medicine is out of the system. In the meantime, the milk isn't sold as organic.

Organic is not the same thing as raising cows and let them get sick, emaciated or die without any treatment because that's "natural".

That cow does look very skinny.

[Artemis]

I know I am coming off as bitchy and preachy, and I am sorry for that, i really am.

There's a lot of assumptions you're making there about the people who've commented on this cow (so many that it would be invidious to pick out one to discuss) including that no-one but you knows anything about cows. There are a lot of people here who keep, breed, know about animals of all breeds, as there are lots of people here who have knowledge about all sorts of things: that is what makes FJ so interesting.

I grew up with Jerseys, Guernseys and Charolais cattle on a small dairy farm. (The Charolais were my grandfather's experiment - he kept a couple for home-bred beef, and cross-bred a couple with Guernseys. We also kept pigs, a few sheep, chickens, ducks, pheasants, and rabbits - this type:

both for showing and for the table. Animals were killed at the local abbattoir and we butchered them into joints ourselves and cured our own bacon and ham. We drank raw milk, (the Jersey milk was fantastic!) and made raw milk cheese and butter.) Just for the record, I am also a horse owner, and no, I don't worm indiscriminately.

Frankly, your post doesn't just come across as bitchy and preachy, but aggressive, and arrogant. Why try to pretty it up by an apology you obviously don't feel you should have to make? No-one here has said that people should not keep animals in a small or homesteading way, or tried to imply that it should be forbidden, and not all of us are unaware of where our food comes from or how it is 'grown'.

Take a chill pill, do ;) no-one attacked you!

[BelieveinScience]

I was on the dairy judging team at UW- Madison, so really, I just might not know what I am talking about here. You guys, sorry, I think you are overreacting. I snorted when i saw someone say they should be reported for "keeping animals like this." you KIDDING me? They should be reported for keeping a cow out on a large grassy pasture? Really? Unless they are beating the hell out of the cow (which I doubt since it just stands there to be milked) there is no better life for a cow. I mean what, you want to see it in a living room? Or you just prefer that they stay in those big CAFO barns with cement floors so you don't have to look at them? As far as body score, you can;t get a close enough look at her from that angle. Althgough if had to guess i would guess 2as well.

. Also, any vet will tell you, managing parasites does not mean your cow will be worm free. It means keeping the worms at a decent low level, which usually happens naturally in a healthy animal that's well fed. (I know- you horse owners are gonna freak if I claim that Tiddums doesn't need deworming every 6 weeks. Well he doesn't. Twice a year with a broad spectrum is fine. Oh, and this overdeworming is bad for groundwater and it's causing resistance.)

That cow looks FINE. She is living in cow paradise. That organic milk you pay $6 a gallon for? Yeah, news flash, that came from a cow that has NEVER been dewormed, vaccinated, or treated for anything. Same with organic meat, too.

Someone said that a cow shouldn't look like that after giving birth? That is when a cow is most likely to look like hell. They give a lot of their energy towards milk, that's why it is called a dairy cow. That cow could just be a naturally skinny cow.

I know I am coming off as bitchy and preachy, and I am sorry for that, i really am. But I really support self farming by and for the family, and animals are not people, you guys, Horses do not want to live in stalls, and cows are happy as long as they have pasture and room. Honestly.

And oh-those hereford Brahma crosses...Boy, they are cute looking cattle. They would not fare well here in WI though, those cute ears would freeze right off...

So you think an animal with a BCS of a 2 looks FINE? Wow... even if its pasture based fed it shouldn't be that skinny. An animal with a BCS of 2 is just unacceptable.

[BelieveinScience]

I don't know the rules for selling "organic" milk in the US, but here it doesn't mean that organic animals never get veterinary treatments. It means that they are treated if necessary, sometimes with natural remedies, sometimes with traditional medicine, and then they will be in some kind of quarantine until the medicine is out of the system. In the meantime, the milk isn't sold as organic.

Organic is not the same thing as raising cows and let them get sick, emaciated or die without any treatment because that's "natural".

That cow does look very skinny.

Unless rules changed very recently about what is classified as organic(as in since I last looked up/studied info on it) then she's wrong about what makes something "organic"

Eta- just looked up the organic standards in the US.

Organic health standards for the animals

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/te ... .12&idno=7

It says that organic cattle can have Vaccines and be treated with synthetic medications if they follow the organic rules and I looked at the list and it was quite long of what was allowed. There are also parasticides you can use if you follow the rules about them.

[donks]

My 'Tiddums' don't live in stalls. They have stalls, but since I no longer show I don't worry about their color fading. So there's no need for me to stall them.

Mine roam in their pasture 24-7. There's plenty of grazing, trees for shade, a run-in shed if they want (that's where I keep their salt and mineral blocks) and 2 large tanks of clean water. In the winter they have rolls of nice, locally grown hay, 2 at a time so everyone gets their share.

Sounds like horse heaven, huh?

I rotate which pastures they graze. We drag the resting pasture to break up piles. We keep them bushhogged.

I deworm every 3 months. *shrug* it's what my vet says to do. I haven't had any problem, unlike some folks down the road, who have some shitacular horse-keeping practices... Colics, rough hair coats, thin nasty looking horses...at least they'll call the vet out.

Mine are plump (not fat) shiny, very healthy. Beautiful horses.

I raised a couple of bottle calves when I was a 4-H kid. My cow experience is just from that. I said the cow was thin. I said I'd feed her more. I said I'd call the vet out.

What's wrong with that? Seems reasonable to me... :)

[windyCharolais]

In regards with the picture of a thin cow above. Does a thin cow produces more milk than a fat cow?