razing ruth/rachel and FAFSA

[gustava]

On her blog, Razing Ruth says that her father won't provide necessary information for either her or Rachel:

She [Rachel] wants to enroll in a GED class so she has something to occupy her day. Ironically, if she were keeping the baby, she'd be eligible for financial aide at different schools. As it is, she'd have to get my dad to submit his information for the FAFSA and that isn't likely. He wouldn't do it when I needed it, either.

I'm not doubting Ruth, just wondering how Rachel might get around this.

[Jinger_Cat]

People who are not in contact with their parents can petition for independent status, but it's a long, complicated process. (I'm sure on the precise terminology. It may be called something else. )

[Austin]

Ruth has no need of his information; she is in her late 20's, I believe.

Rachel is another matter. There are pretty clear guidelines for being declared an independent student at Rachel's age and I don't believe she meets any of them. If the father has been threatening to kick her out for some time, she might be able to make the argument that she was in danger of being homeless, but it didn't work for my niece, who was basically kicked out the day she turned 18 and had been threatened with it for several years before that.

There are a lot of parents who don't want anything to do with their kids after they're 18, and will not cooperate with giving their kids this information, so this is not an uncommon problem (very unfortunately).

BTW, this was one thing that made me really angry with AD, who was already 24 and didn't need her parents' cooperation to complete her FAFSA as an independent student. So many young people would give up a limb to be in her position, but she couldn't ever manage to get around to it, blaming it on her parents when that was not even an obstacle for her.

[Rosa]

A college financial aid officer can investigate personally and modify the student's FAFSA to show the parents are unable to contribute. I had a friend in high school whose father was paranoid, armed, and totally unwilling to give ANY documentation (she lived with her mom). A guidance counselor talked a financial aid person at the state university and they all went out to try to talk to her dad, and he threatened them until they left the property, and the financial aid officer took care of it from there. (One of my boyfriend's cousins had a similar situation, her dad is schitzophrenic and lives in a rural area where he's often incommunicado for weeks or months, but I think he never had legal custody so didn't count.)

So if Rachel gets a social worker, guidance counselor, or motivated admissions officer, they'll find her a workaround.

[MadameX]

She should get in touch with a financial aid counselor at the school. Not a front desk person. Someone with authority. That person may be able to help her get the approval of an appropriate shelter or organization to qualify for the homelessness criteria. That person also may have access to grant money or information and help Ruth approximate her FAFSA, then sign an affidavit explaining that she has no contact with her parents or access to their money, which could help her apply for and receive other support. This is how I was able to pay for college during my divorce from my ex-husband.

It's definitely out there (money for school) but it's not always easy to find and it definitely helps to have a real life person who knows the system to help you.

[BlackHawk]

As someone who attempted this... it sucks, it's hard. I found very few people who were willing to work with me because I had to open an investigation file... and no one wants to take the time to do that. It takes a LOT of effort.. and hopefully in the end will be worth it.

I, unfortunately, was unsuccessful the first time I tried. The second time I was a bit more successful, but it still was hard. She needs to go talk to the financial aide officer at the place she wants to get her GED. AS someone said above, NOT a front desk worker. She needs to talk to an actually aide officer (or worker). They are the only ones who can help. Her other option is to call the FAFSA hotline and ask to speak to someone who can help her. They are pretty nice there, the people I spoke to, and can give her a contact name to meet with at the school.

Good luck to her.

[sugaree]

IIRC, you don't have to submit your parent's info if you are orphaned, coming from the foster care system, a parent, married, or were an emancipated minor. MadameX, I am thinking that you were able to get aid because you were divorced; thus, you had been married and were therefore considered to be independent from their parents.

Young adults who are just plain on the outs with their parents, for whatever reason, are screwed.

[Third]

I was never able to get help for college. As for the GED around here they have free education classes to work toward the GED and the fees go according to household income - so where ever she is living not her Father's income. IDK how it works else where.

[razingruth]

I had to wait until I aged out of the FAFSA requirement. That was my only option. Even the emancipation clause isn't a sure thing. You have to prove that you receive, even after emancipation, not one iota of support from your parents- and since it's hard to prove a negative and it's even harder to convince normal people that your parents really DON'T want you to get an education, that's difficult. For me, I spent the time preparing for a college education by taking what I could afford through cheaper means and getting intensive therapy for free or cheap by any means so that I'd be ready to go to school when I aged out. Rachel's at slightly more of a disadvantage than I was because she's going to have to not only heal from our childhood, but heal from this experience of being a birth mom and dealing with pregnancy and post-partum issues. I had thought that, maybe, she'd qualify as FAFSA independent due to giving birth, but, as it's written, you have to have the child in your custody. If what we were told is wrong, then I'd love someone to tell me differently.

[razingruth]

ETA: Just IMO, I think that's something the United States should rethink. We're basically giving people a way to circumvent the FAFSA parental requirements if they have a baby young. ? That seems counter-intuitive to focusing on an education.

[lilwriter85]

Some politicians do want to change some of the independent status policies regarding FAFSA. A friend of mine attended community colleges part time from ages 18-24 because she had trouble finding scholarships and she didn't qualify because of her parents' statuses. Once she turned 24 and completed FAFSA she attended college full time for a couple of years to finish her degree.

[Austin]

The way it is currently fails to take into account that there are a lot of crappy parents who feel no obligation to help their kid once he/she turns 18, even in just providing information.

[razingruth]

Many quiverfull parents are completely aware of this, too, Austin. They know the kids are essentially trapped.

[kb2]

I had a roommate whose dad refused to give FAFSA information one year. It was her senior year, so the financial aid office worked around it (I think they allocated money without waiting for paperwork to be done), but she didn't get all the money she could have (she got state money but not federal loans) and I think the work-around was only done because she was so close to graduating. It sucked and was stressful for her.

There should definitely be better options for people who don't have supportive parents.

I would second the recommendation to talk to someone with power in the financial aid office. There may be something they can do, although there are no guarantees.

[Rosa]

I had to wait until I aged out of the FAFSA requirement. That was my only option. Even the emancipation clause isn't a sure thing. You have to prove that you receive, even after emancipation, not one iota of support from your parents- and since it's hard to prove a negative and it's even harder to convince normal people that your parents really DON'T want you to get an education, that's difficult.

Ruth, I don't know if it will work, but since your parents ideology is so weird and Rachel left because she felt unsafe, you might have luck getting help for her on those grounds - but it really does take a motivated caseworker or counselor to do it, they know the workarounds.

It is a shame that we choose parenthood and marriage as markers of adulthood - I knew a number of couples who married just to become independent for financial aid reasons, when I was starting college.

[turquoise]

We just filled out the FAFSA for my son a few days ago. This year, I remember seeing a box for the student to check if their parents refused to provide information. There was also a question about whether the student was homeless or at risk for being homeless, and I think it said that the definition of homeless included having family who were willing to take you in, but were abusive. I don't remember seeing that last year. Maybe that is new, and would be of some help to Rachel.

[PokaDot]

Isn't FAFSA (sort of) related to how long a parent can claim a child as a dependent for tax purposes?

I had issues after I graduated getting my dad to stop claiming me-even when I was working full time at a salaried position. Because I was a full time student for part of that year (yeah-this is how he took my "stimulus" money-then didn't give it to me).

Anyways, if you get a good person working your financial aid, they tend to help out. I had crappy ones most of the time (I even played dumb once and found out that the person who worked in the aid office managed to get herself some $20k in aid (she showed me the screen I needed to get to, but used her login to do it), opposed to my small amount that didn't cover tuition).

[Kelya]

Isn't FAFSA (sort of) related to how long a parent can claim a child as a dependent for tax purposes?

I had issues after I graduated getting my dad to stop claiming me-even when I was working full time at a salaried position. Because I was a full time student for part of that year (yeah-this is how he took my "stimulus" money-then didn't give it to me).

Anyways, if you get a good person working your financial aid, they tend to help out. I had crappy ones most of the time (I even played dumb once and found out that the person who worked in the aid office managed to get herself some $20k in aid (she showed me the screen I needed to get to, but used her login to do it), opposed to my small amount that didn't cover tuition).

They're not as related as you would think they should be- you can be independent for the purposes of taxes, and still dependent for the fafsa, which is absolutely ridiculous and stupid.

Here's a good blog post, it has one financial aid admin's opinion and if it's close to what rachel's school would want, i think it would be do-able for you guys, with a letter from the woman's shelter, rachel's attorney, etc. http://blog.studentloannetwork.com/fafs ... nt-status/

[marmalade]

We just filled out the FAFSA for my son a few days ago. This year, I remember seeing a box for the student to check if their parents refused to provide information. There was also a question about whether the student was homeless or at risk for being homeless, and I think it said that the definition of homeless included having family who were willing to take you in, but were abusive. I don't remember seeing that last year. Maybe that is new, and would be of some help to Rachel.

That wouldn't work here, because Ruth and Rachel are living together. Ruth is obviously not abusing Rachel.

Man, the things I take for granted (like filling out that FAFSA every year as a non-dependent adult). As a professional student, I have some experience with THAT. Heck, all I have to amend is income; they already have the rest of my life stored in their hard drives.

[MadameX]

IIRC, you don't have to submit your parent's info if you are orphaned, coming from the foster care system, a parent, married, or were an emancipated minor. MadameX, I am thinking that you were able to get aid because you were divorced; thus, you had been married and were therefore considered to be independent from their parents.

Young adults who are just plain on the outs with their parents, for whatever reason, are screwed.

It had nothing to do with my parents. I still had to report my ex's income, of which I did not receive any part and we had been separated long enough that I had no idea what his tax info was for that year.

I'm saying that, in this case, like in mine, there are ways around being held accountable for income that isn't yours and from which you don't benefit.

[marmalade]

MadameX, I'm assuming you were still legally married during the prior tax year, but divorce not final? Something like that would suck with the IRS as well.

[MadameX]

MadameX, I'm assuming you were still legally married during the prior tax year, but divorce not final? Something like that would suck with the IRS as well.

Basically it was a huge hassle in every respect ;)

[koolmom]

On her blog, Razing Ruth says that her father won't provide necessary information for either her or Rachel:

She [Rachel] wants to enroll in a GED class so she has something to occupy her day. Ironically, if she were keeping the baby, she'd be eligible for financial aide at different schools. As it is, she'd have to get my dad to submit his information for the FAFSA and that isn't likely. He wouldn't do it when I needed it, either.

I'm not doubting Ruth, just wondering how Rachel might get around this.

OMG! This is exactly what my abusive father did to me back when I tried to start college! I had to wait a whole year so I could start minus his "help"...!

[turquoise]

That wouldn't work here, because Ruth and Rachel are living together. Ruth is obviously not abusing Rachel.

Man, the things I take for granted (like filling out that FAFSA every year as a non-dependent adult). As a professional student, I have some experience with THAT. Heck, all I have to amend is income; they already have the rest of my life stored in their hard drives.

Good point. I didn't know all the details of Rachel's living situation, and hadn't thought that through. Still, the fact that they now ask about that sort of thing makes me hope that maybe they are getting better about recognizing the problems faced by young adults with abusive parents? I hope Rachel and Ruth find someone who can help.

[Deleted03]

But can't you prove that Rachel went to a domestic abuse shelter, and did you file out a no-contact order? or a restraining order? Wouldn't that count to the FAFSA?

If it does not, then it's even more screwed than I thought.... O_o

I mean it would be ok to do that, if there was a way for the kids once turned 18 to have an easy procedure to sue the parents and get the information and/or the money, but it's not the case, so why insisting on this nuclear family bs?