How do you think 'discipline' works?

[bettertomarry]

I apologize if this has been covered elsewhere, but I'm so curious about how the Duggars keep their fairly wholesome image. I know that Jim-Bob has a producer's credit and gets final say on what footage gets shown and I know that they only shoot a few weeks out of the year. But we also know, or at least hypothesize that they use corporal punishment with their children.

Do we think that they just excuse themselves to the garage to punish a child when they get out of line during filming? Would they really do this when the crew was around? We've seen the arm grab by JB during the J20 announcement, but Josiah is a teenager and knows to 'keep sweet'. Even fundy toddlers are going to squeal if someone pinched them or smacked them. I can't imagine the crew ignoring that. Or maybe I'm just an evil liberal who has lived too long in the People's Republic of Cambridge.

I can't quite picture how they function day to day with their 'training' of children with the cameras rolling. Although I suppose they could just stop when the crew is there. Do they ignore the misbehavior then?

[Guest Anonymous]

Not sure how it works when the kids need discipline, but I am absolutely convinced Josiah got more than just a "talking to" or "time out" when he ran off after the #20 announcement. He looked as if he taken a trip behind the woodshed. However, it wouldn't surprise me if there is corporal punishment going on and TLC is turning a blind eye to it.

[valsa]

Early on, one of the little boys was crying or carrying on and Michelle whispered something into his ear that shut him up real quick. I think he knew what would happen if he didn't. With that many kids and that much choas, it would be easy for Michelle, JB, or one of the J'slaves to quietly lead one child away from the cameras for punishment.

[Three and Done]

The idea makes me sad and angry at the same time.

[Koala]

The idea makes me sad and angry at the same time.

Agreed. The thought of it makes me want to throw up. Damn Michelle and her goddamned baby voice :(

[CustardTart]

I never spanked my kids but they spent time standing in the corner when they were exceptionally naughty. I wonder if they use time-outs in additional to spanking. I've never seen any discipline other than speaking to them, Maybe the Duggars don't follow that Gothard rule??

[CustardTart]

By the way, the word discipline doesn't mean hitting. It comes from the word disciple. Jesus didn't beat his people to make them disciples, he guided and taught them.

Same thing with the spare the rod bastardization the fundies have done. Shepherds didn;t beat their sheep with those rods, they pokes, prodded and guided the sheep to where they needed to go. I hate when people take a very sweet bible verse of guidance and turn it into lets beat the shit out of out kids because the bible says so.

[Elle]

I never spanked my kids but they spent time standing in the corner when they were exceptionally naughty. I wonder if they use time-outs in additional to spanking. I've never seen any discipline other than speaking to them, Maybe the Duggars don't follow that Gothard rule??

On their website, before they got to be so popular, they used to openly advocate the Pearls' methods. I wouldn't doubt for a minute that they're whipping the kids out of the cameras' view. Not just an open-handed smack on the butt, but pile or something similar. I hate that all spanking is grouped together, from butt-pops to whipping your kids for looking like they just MIGHT be thinking about misbehaving.

Haven't the older girls appeared from time to time to be using, or threatening to use, spanking?

[koolmom]

So how do they hide any marks they might leave on any of the kids?

[valsa]

So how do they hide any marks they might leave on any of the kids?

IIRC, people like the Pearls advocate using methods that don't leave marks.

[valsa]

I hate that all spanking is grouped together, from butt-pops to whipping your kids for looking like they just MIGHT be thinking about misbehaving.

Yeah! How dare people group hitting your kids together with... hitting your kids...

[CustardTart]

IIRC, people like the Pearls advocate using methods that don't leave marks.

Oh dear God, I remember reading that on Papa Pearl's blog. Like when my BIL used to beat his wife, he'd hit her on the back of the head where her hair covered the skin.

[Miggy]

Do they discipline the howler monkeys and down at all? At home, they just run riot. When out, I thought they just depended on a sister-mum pulling them into line rather than the kids being taught any self-discipline.

[skinch]

...... I've never seen any discipline other than speaking to them, Maybe the Duggars don't follow that Gothard rule??

They follow the 'rule'. Though they'd say it's the Bible, not Gothard who made it. That's what they said here:

"The Duggars consider the Bible something of an owner's manual, a how-to for life. They sometimes employ "time outs" to discipline their children, but they also think the Bible teaches parents to spank and even instructs on how to do it."

That was more than 10 years ago. The link to the article I've quoted from used to be on the front page of their family website. (The link proudly pointed to quiverfull dot com, which I think is a defunct site now.)

I don't think they've altered their view. If they had changed, then I think they'd trumpet that fact as some sort of vindication.

The article is archived by the newspaper it appeared in here:

http://library.ardemgaz.com./ArchiveSearch.asp?SearchWords=duggar&inField=All&SortBy=DateDesc&DocsPerPage=20&eventStartDate=09%2F09%2F2001&eventStopDate=09%2F09%2F2001&go=+Execute+Search+

And it's easy enough to find the full text if you use Wayback to look at how the Duggar family website has changed over the years. It's changed. Yep.

Should I link to the full article? I don't want anyone to think that I made up the quote.

Wayback also shows that the Bates family website used to have them talk about their quiver beginning to fill. Yet when Kelly was directly asked about 'quiverful' recently she made a disingenuous reply. Something about not being aware of the so-called movement. Well, yes the movement is 'so-called' and so there's nothing official for Kelly to be aware of; but they were previously keen to use the recognised terminology,again on the front page of their website. They replaced the 'quiver began to fill' phrase with 'our family began to grow'.

I love the Wayback Machine, can you tell?

[debrand]

Someone asked about marks. Most parents spank their children's bottoms or uppper legs so any marks would be hidden by clothing.

The younger kids, if they are spanked, are probably not being punished as consistently as the older ones were. The presence of the film crew might actually protect the kids from abuse.

[freejoytoo]

Bettertomarry, just want to say that I love your avatar. Night of the Hunter is one of my alltime favourite films.

Back on topic, I expect they smack them or even whip them off camera.

[bettertomarry]

Freejoytoo, thanks. Its my favorite movie too. And perfect, in my opinion, for this forum.

The reason I asked the question was that I work with toddlers and pre-schoolers. The threat of an eventual spanking wouldn't seem to deter anyone in the 1-5 year old age bracket. I was thinking along the lines of what debrand said. That the presence of the crew might actually stop or lesson corporal punishment. If this is the case, it seems like another instance of lying/hiding their beliefs rather than being honest. We've seen Michelle campaign to stop a store from selling liquor, but we haven't necessarily seen them get into the spanking debate.

[reds]

I imagine that the reason the howler monkeys are so out of control on film is because they know that no one will punish them while the cameras are on site. They can get away with it then. They are probably very different when they know that punishment is going to happen. It has been said before that filming is only like two weeks.

[SunnyAndrsn]

Someone asked about marks. Most parents spank their children's bottoms or uppper legs so any marks would be hidden by clothing.

The younger kids, if they are spanked, are probably not being punished as consistently as the older ones were. The presence of the film crew might actually protect the kids from abuse.

Agreed--the howler monkeys have not been hit/spanked/beaten nearly as much as the older children.

[valsa]

Agreed--the howler monkeys have not been hit/spanked/beaten nearly as much as the older children.

I agree. Michelle and JB actually parented the older ones and could consistently apply their "discipline". The howler monkeys are parented by the J'slaves and are probably "disciplined" by Michelle and JB far too inconsistently to be trained the same way.

[mrs]

On their website, before they got to be so popular, they used to openly advocate the Pearls' methods. I wouldn't doubt for a minute that they're whipping the kids out of the cameras' view. Not just an open-handed smack on the butt, but pile or something similar. I hate that all spanking is grouped together, from butt-pops to whipping your kids for looking like they just MIGHT be thinking about misbehaving.

Haven't the older girls appeared from time to time to be using, or threatening to use, spanking?

I agree.

I hope the daughters read some unbiased parenting books once they are expecting ... If they choose to be so. :)

[contrary]

ugh. for whatever reason, having an older sibling spank a younger sibling just freaks me out. that's so potentially damaging to BOTH of them, and their relationship. i cannot imagine this ever being okay.