Josh Powell/Westboro Baptist

[JesusFightClub]

Okay, but this thread is about a man who killed his two children in a raging gasoline-induced house explosion, lost his own life in same explosion, whose wife mysteriously disappeared 2 years ago, and the Westboro Baptist Church is pissed off enough about gay marriage passing in Washington state to send their people to protest about gays at the funeral of the two boys on Saturday.

It's not about white trash or welfare recipients. Let's stay focused.

Um, this is FJ?

Just in case you were getting a bit forgetful for a minute and mistook this for a board where no one is allowed to deviate from the topic and other posters are expected to handslap said deviants and tell them to focus.

[Lillybee]

No, that doesn't cut it as an excuse. Lissar was right.

You can't stereotype a whole huge group of people and be all like "Well, I didn't mean YOU, I meant the bad ones" when a member of that group complains. Like emmiedahl, I am on welfare. She has the food stamps and I am on the waiting list for a council flat. Which of us is the welfare queen?

(On a related note, I wonder how many people saw the words "welfare queen at a job fair" and pictured a white person...)

It did, I worked in eligibility for my county and 95% of the welfare moms were white.

A lot of times, WBC says that it is going to protest a funeral but they do no show up. My county buried a fallen hero a few weeks ago, WBC said that it was going to protest and they got a lot of news space. What happened is that many came out for the funeral and lined the road on the way to the funeral but WBC didn't show up.

[bubbabearzle]

WTF. :?

I imagine this is supposed to be a joke, but it's coming off way more mean-spirited than funny to me. Of course I believe that the vast majority of people on welfare would much rather have a job that pays a living wage than have to jump through government hoops and weather the scorn of others just so their family can remain fed, clothed, and sheltered.

**Edited because I failed at posting the first time.

Glad to hear I wasn't the only one who took issue with that "joke"!

[valsa]

Okay, but this thread is about a man who killed his two children in a raging gasoline-induced house explosion, lost his own life in same explosion, whose wife mysteriously disappeared 2 years ago, and the Westboro Baptist Church is pissed off enough about gay marriage passing in Washington state to send their people to protest about gays at the funeral of the two boys on Saturday.

It's not about white trash or welfare recipients. Let's stay focused.

What stupid shit is this?

One of our posters said something classist, biased, potentially hurtful, and just plain wrong. That is never NOT on topic, even if FJ was a board that emphasized on-topic-ness (which it most certainly is not)

[starfish]

I doubt the losers of Westboro Cult will show up. They are all about announcements, but they are cowards when it comes down to it.

The real cowards are the other churches in Wichita who won't denounce them, though.

[AKay]

God, I feel so terrible for Susan's family. Like it wasn't bad enough that they have had to live in the hell they're in right now, they have to deal with these nutcases on top of everything. Those poor little boys. The whole story is just awful.

[MamaJunebug]

In response to:

General hurt feelings and indignation

Oh, for Dawkins' sake!

I apologize -- for an attempt at hyperbole that failed. Dudes, I get it. I'm not perfect, one of my jokes bombed. The memo's gone out on that one and I'm co-signing it.

ETA, having cooled down and reflected: I hurt many of your feelings. I'm truly sorry for that.

Here, let's try this substition and get back on-track: "They'd run faster than lazy people at a job fair."

Also, thanks to those who are getting it back on-track. Those of you who know me [sic] through 3 years of posting know I'm not about being thoughtlessly rude. Thoughts about WBC and what can be done to bring their particular mode of sheer hate to an end, that is one of the things I"m here for.

OK, that's it: I'm saying no more on this thread that doesn't have to do with WBC and the tragedy of the Powells.

[MamaJunebug]

I doubt the losers of Westboro Cult will show up. They are all about announcements, but they are cowards when it comes down to it.

The real cowards are the other churches in Wichita who won't denounce them, though.

starfish, that's an interesting thought, and I hadn't considered it. Have there indeed been no reactions from other Topeka churches? I'm going to research if I get a free moment.

(No problem with the mixup, I lived several years in Kansas and I still get the two towns confused. :) )

[Sunnichick31]

Other churches are probably intimidated by them (and rightly so.) WBC practices the kind of hatred and extremism that you see in terrorist training camps.

[MamaJunebug]

Insightful thought, sunnichick. Thanks.

I've started a new topic on the subject of the interactions - if any - between the religious/ethical communities and WBC (or similar groups).

[Sunnichick31]

Is homeland security watching WBC? Cause it really wouldn't surprise me if they tried something a little more violent at some point.

[WonderingInWA]

Is homeland security watching WBC? Cause it really wouldn't surprise me if they tried something a little more violent at some point.

Wow -- that's a really good question. They are one scary bunch of lunatics. Protesting funerals, especially this one coming up tomorrow, infuriates people. It wouldn't take much to turn that situation into a riot.

[koolmom]

The WBC cretins probably get a large charge just out of reactions when they say they're going to show up at some event...then, they sit back and cackle about all the responses they get -- sort of like "being there without all the hassles involved", in a matter of speaking. They get their jollies just by saying they're going to be there, as in "what we won't do to get free publicity". I still keep wondering what happens when one of their own meets their reward? How does this fly under the radar?

[Guest Anonymous]

Well....I'm not a pc person, and I make no apologies for anything I have said. I commented on what I have personally witnessed, and didn't pull anything out of my ass. If that's offensive or stereotyping, then oh well. I just call 'em like I see 'em.

Back to the topic.....I wish the media would just ignore WBC, they would realize the rest of the world doesn't give a rat's ass about them & they may just back off. But, then again, with hate groups like this if they don't get the attention they want, they are likely to do something really crazy or violent just to get that attention.

[Silver Springs]

Thye just do it for publicity anymore, not for any true beliefs. IMO.

I'm inclined to agree. Under what stretch of the imagination could they be protesting anything at all about those poor babies?? :cry:

[Guest Anonymous]

Well....I'm not a pc person, and I make no apologies for anything I have said. I commented on what I have personally witnessed, and didn't pull anything out of my ass. If that's offensive or stereotyping, then oh well. I just call 'em like I see 'em.

Back to the topic.....I wish the media would just ignore WBC, they would realize the rest of the world doesn't give a rat's ass about them & they may just back off. But, then again, with hate groups like this if they don't get the attention they want, they are likely to do something really crazy or violent just to get that attention.

When someone says "I'm not a PC person" that has turned out to mean "I'm an asshole and I don't give a shit about being considerate to others" 100% of the time in my experience. Often, but not always, with bonus racism/sexism!

[Austin]

When someone says "I'm not a PC person" that has turned out to mean "I'm an asshole and I don't give a shit about being considerate to others" 100% of the time in my experience. Often, but not always, with bonus racism/sexism!

Good luck on FJ, geniebelle. You pretty much have to be able to back up your assertions with more than "I call 'em like I see 'em". And when I hear people call others trash of any variety, I tend to wonder if they're just projecting. Because they have to be better than somebody, you know.

[JesusFightClub]

Well....I'm not a pc person, and I make no apologies for anything I have said. I commented on what I have personally witnessed, and didn't pull anything out of my ass. If that's offensive or stereotyping, then oh well. I just call 'em like I see 'em.

Back to the topic.....I wish the media would just ignore WBC, they would realize the rest of the world doesn't give a rat's ass about them & they may just back off. But, then again, with hate groups like this if they don't get the attention they want, they are likely to do something really crazy or violent just to get that attention.

You know what? "I'm not PC and I just call 'em how I see 'em" are shitty excuses.

I am not PC, whateverthefuck that means in your head. You soon drop any veneer of woolly liberalism when you work with people on benefits. Or when you are on benefits yourself.

I told you a real fact. Welfare, in any country, does not make you rich. It doesn't give you huge flat screen TVs or hot tubs or SUVs either.

I wasn't being ooh, all Politically Correct. I was telling you the truth. You may want to try this approach sometime.

[Guest Anonymous]

Well, I see I ruffled some feathers. I based what I said on things that I see going on around me, you know after people leave the welfare office. I have heard countless people describe how they "work the system". I personally know of people who have received welfare benefits under 2 different identities, claimed children they don't have, and find ways around the welfare to work program. This information came straight out of their own mouths not my imagination. Is that proof enough for you? Anybody who works in a welfare office should know that this kind of stuff does exist. I believe welfare is a good thing, and it has helped many people. But... people who abuse the system are trash (white, brown, male, female, aliens from outer space, whatever), and are taking resources that could be put to better use by helping more people who need it. Also, don't think for one second I don't realize that one day I might be one those receiving welfare. The way the U.S. economy is today, it can happen to anybody, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. I have family members on welfare. I love them dearly, and I certainly do not think I am in any way superior to them or anyone else on welfare.

So, now, if feeling the way I do makes me an asshole then pucker up and kiss mine!

[JesusFightClub]

Oh for fuck's sake.

Do some people work the system? Inasmuch as the parameters allow, yes. But just playing welfare doesn't get you the huge flat screen tellies etc etc. It gets you a bit of extra money to spend. And it is a very small bit.

Since you seem to like anecdata, here's some of mine.

Client #1 had the telly etc and spent over £1000 on her children every Christmas. A terrible welfare sponging white trash mum, amirite? Actually, she was bipolar and took out huge loans, when she was manic (frequently) from the sort of shadowy types who show up at your doorstep in the wee hours with a baseball bat (and not to play a game either...)

Client #2 was a drug dealer, who tried to get his minions to sign on for him and used to show up in a Merc. Was he gaming the system - nope. We don't have a clause which says "You are entitled to benefits unless you sell drugs which the dogs in the street know you totally do, Tony." His fancy stuff came from the proceeds of being a bad drugs guy, not from the tiny amount of benefits he got. And he didn't claim anything he was not entitled to.

Client #3 was a wee lost soul and I still feel sad to this day thinking about her, though she is probably dead now. Her dream was to be the hairdresser she used to be, before the drugs got a grip and before the time in Cornton Vale (women's prison). She was bound and determined to be that girl again with a career in hairdressing and fun friends like she used to have. She was about as likely to achieve this as I am to become a famous astrophysicist. She came in every day looking for hairdressing jobs and she was a very obvious methadone taker (the skin acquires a green tinge, and all of her looked like she weighed as much as my left forearm.) Nobody would hire her ever if there was any other candidate. She was trying to pull the pieces of her ruined life together but she was never going to. I would have given her any benefit in the world if it would help.

I can't be all judgey like you can about people on welfare because I was and am one, I live with some, and I worked as a benefits officer. You see everything, and the ones who are blatantly scrounging/taking the piss are a tiny minority. There are some terrible life choices involved (see examples above) a huge dose of sheer bad luck and failures in the systems that should prevent these things. And I am about as non PC as you get.

[emmiedahl]

Well, I see I ruffled some feathers. I based what I said on things that I see going on around me, you know after people leave the welfare office. I have heard countless people describe how they "work the system". I personally know of people who have received welfare benefits under 2 different identities, claimed children they don't have, and find ways around the welfare to work program. This information came straight out of their own mouths not my imagination. Is that proof enough for you? Anybody who works in a welfare office should know that this kind of stuff does exist. I believe welfare is a good thing, and it has helped many people. But... people who abuse the system are trash (white, brown, male, female, aliens from outer space, whatever), and are taking resources that could be put to better use by helping more people who need it. Also, don't think for one second I don't realize that one day I might be one those receiving welfare. The way the U.S. economy is today, it can happen to anybody, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. I have family members on welfare. I love them dearly, and I certainly do not think I am in any way superior to them or anyone else on welfare.

So, now, if feeling the way I do makes me an asshole then pucker up and kiss mine!

I am sure people, perfect strangers probably, walk right up to you and tell you about the felony fraud they are committing! That's totally plausible! :lol:

Welfare fraud occurs in a tiny percentage of cases. That's not anecdata, it's fact.

[Cran]

Yes, I am an asshole and don't give a shit about being considerate to others. I care about myself and a good life, that's why I don't go around being mean to people or being criminal, because that would spoil my good life pretty much. I haven't read in the ToU that you're excluded from FJ if you're and asshole.

So... on related issues.... do the Westboro Baptists randomly protest funerals to show that all bad thing going on are a punishment from God for allowing gays to exist? The sad dead of those boys has nothing to do with being gay, has it?

I know I am crazy to expect logic from these people, but how do they explain mass killings, the plague etc., in times being gay was definitely regarded as sin and homosexual people could be put to death if caught?

[Guest Anonymous]

1) I never said that people who abuse welfare used their benefits to buy luxury items

2) I said people I personally know have abused the system. Which implies they are not strangers.

3) If I'm being "judgy" it's towards those who abuse the system. Not one time did I say anything negative about people who need welfare. If you had actually read the the last 3 sentences of the first paragraph of my previous post, you would get that.

If it makes you happy, yes I probably am a judgmental asshole, but then again this is a snark forum where judgmental remarks are made about fundies, the religious right, etc. So, I'm not the only one.

Now back to WBC.... Several years ago the KKK wanted to hold a rally in my town in the town square. The mayor, city council, etc. tried everything they could to prevent it, but alas, free speech & all. So, a vast majority town merchants decided to close down (but not the ones that provide essential services like grocery stores, pharmacies, medical offices, gas stations, etc). Also, even most of the anti-KKK protestors stayed away. This actually worked, the KKK only stayed for an hour when they realized they their audience was only a few of their own kind. Has that been tried in the case of WBC? I mean when they protest in places other than funerals?

[WonderingInWA]

Well, so the good news is that WBC "changed their minds" about showing up at the funeral, and there is to be a private burial on Monday.

Thank you for this valuable discussion. I guess I never realized they are so completely fucked up that they threaten to show up to protest and then just don't show all as a media ploy. Sigh.

[StarrieEyedKat]

Well, so the good news is that WBC "changed their minds" about showing up at the funeral, and there is to be a private burial on Monday.

Thank you for this valuable discussion. I guess I never realized they are so completely fucked up that they threaten to show up to protest and then just don't show all as a media ploy. Sigh.

Anyone else notice they've been "changing their mind" a lot lately? I think they're just saying that they're going to do all these things just to get attention, knowing they're not actually going to go most of the time.