Favoring Boys over Girls

[bananacat]

I think Smuggar really wanted a son to live vicariously through. He'll never achieve anything himself. He'll never become a lawyer or politician or even a successful entrepreneur, and I think he is starting to realize that. It's too late for him. And of course his daughter will never be allowed to become anything other than a wife and mother, which is certainly not valued in his eyes. But a son could be anything. He could be an astronaut or a lawyer or cure cancer. Of course Mike won't actually be able to do any of those things, even though Anna will probably do a better job of homeschooling than Michelle did. But Josh can have hopes for his son that he can't have for himself or for his daughter.

Incidentally, they should have thought the naming through better. Mackynzie and Michael don't seem that similar, but the nicknames are Mack and Mike, which sound almost the same. They'll have to end up with some really similar names, but they could have at least spaced these two out more, or picked a different nickname for Mack.

[QAF_Rocks]

Don't they call her Kynzie a lot of the time? I find it amusing because I'm sure they've never heard of Alfred Kinsey.

[flojo]

Preference goes both ways in my family.

My father wanted a boy, but I showed up. I think that changed his mind, and even though he's fundy light, there were never many gender expectations for me, even if there were for other women around us.

My (abusive, ex-) stepfather demanded a girl, he refused to acknowledge when mum was pregnant with my sister the possibility of a boy, for example refused to discuss boy names. It added to the issues in pregnancy, and mum ended up having a breakdown.

[dairyfreelife]

I think Smuggar really wanted a son to live vicariously through. He'll never achieve anything himself. He'll never become a lawyer or politician or even a successful entrepreneur, and I think he is starting to realize that. It's too late for him. And of course his daughter will never be allowed to become anything other than a wife and mother, which is certainly not valued in his eyes. But a son could be anything. He could be an astronaut or a lawyer or cure cancer. Of course Mike won't actually be able to do any of those things, even though Anna will probably do a better job of homeschooling than Michelle did. But Josh can have hopes for his son that he can't have for himself or for his daughter.

Incidentally, they should have thought the naming through better. Mackynzie and Michael don't seem that similar, but the nicknames are Mack and Mike, which sound almost the same. They'll have to end up with some really similar names, but they could have at least spaced these two out more, or picked a different nickname for Mack.

His daughter could do those things too...but Josh and Anna have it drilled into their head that she can't do anything except grow up to be a wife and mother because to do otherwise to go against God's will. Mack can do anything she wants if she's determined enough. She has some aunts and uncles who've escaped the cult. :whistle:

If Josh wanted to be a lawyer, technically he could try and do it, but he lacks the ambition to do so and won't. He'd have to take real classes and work and study and have professors who don't have the same beliefs as he does. Can't have that now.

[baristachica]

I didn't sense it in my family, but there is definitely some pressure from my FIL to produce a male grandson. :roll: He and my MIL had two sons, but the eldest (who is not my husband!) probably won't be having kids any time soon. He's bisexual and will probably end up in a relationship with a man. He says he would like to adopt someday, but it'll probably be a while. When I was pregnant with my daughter, my FIL swore up and down it would be a boy...and of course he was wrong. He's a great man, but he has a lot of cultural ties to carrying on the name and such, so he's been tossing hints for us to have another one. He ADORES his granddaughter (he's especially missing her now as he is deployed) and his wife is a strong feminist, but he still clings to some ideas. I don't want to paint him badly - he's been a great support for my MIL through college and while she's in grad school, but there are some obscure ideas that are really only nominal that he will argue strongly. And one of them is that we need to provide him a grandson. :roll:

[emmyfair]

I grew up fundie Catholic, and my brother was totally the golden boy. I had to work like a crazy person for every good thing I have, while my brother was basically given a free ride. I remember walking to work, only to come home and have my mother order me to give gas money to my brother so he could drive his car around town with his friends. He never had a job while in school, and got a free ride to university - he never finished.

Everything I own I paid for, and I'm glad. I have a real sense of pride over what I earned. My brother doesn't give a damn, it's all free to him anyway. This is what scares me most about fundies - raising a generation of men like Smuggar, that think the world in general and women specifically, owe them something.

[SamuraiKatz]

Total pet peeve. I was the oldest of three daughters. Family members frequently asked my parents when they were going to have a boy. Always pissed me off...like my sisters and I weren't good enough because we lacked a penis.... Fast forward 20 years. I was a young mom with four girls- a 6 year old, 2 year old and baby twins. Some insensitive lout at my former church oohed and ahhed over my new babies and then asked me if we were going to keep on going until we had a boy. My six year old was crushed.

A boy or girl doesn't matter as long as they are happy, well cared for, and loved.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

In my family my sister, not my brother, was/is my Dad's favourite. My Mum only wanted boys, as she didn't have a mother she didn't think she could be a mother to girls. Of course once she had a little girl (me) she got over it and is the best Mum imaginable. Dad didn't mind, but he definitely wanted a girl. And now he wants granddaughters.

She often says she wishes she'd had a 4th, and would have wanted another girl.

I would be happy just having girls. My brother, if he has children, only wants one girl. My sister wants both, but her husband (who is one of two boys) wants 5 boys. I assume he is joking. But he would not be happy with 'just' girls, but I wouldn't be happy with 'just' boys so it's not a sexist thing like it is in some fundie communities.

[donks]

Oh without a doubt boys are favored. My family wasn't fundy, but did a lot of things fundies do. My Dad was a real a-hole of a patriarch, NO ONE rocked the boat. He could have taught the Pearls a thing or 2.

I slaved, along with my sisters doing housework. I loved the outdoors, and was given outdoor chores too, which I didn't mind. My only brother only had outdoor chores. He also had crazy amounts of freedom compared to us girls.

My Dad never praised our work growing up. Recently, decades later, he did mention that I was a good daughter, a real 'go getter'.

If he had said that then instead of the other day I wouldn't have grown up bitterly angry about everything.

Don't wanna say too much. May have already said too much.

[JesusFightClub]

My mum wanted my youngest brother to be a girl, in part because she wanted a "girly girl" - she's always been very disappointed that I have never been interested in traditionally "feminine" things. However she also said to me "When he was born, you know, I wouldn't swap him."

Some parents seem to have in their minds "a girl will be like this and a boy will be like that" and it's really that opinion which influences them rather than the child's actual sex.

[maia]

I grew up in a fairly conservative Christian home (maybe fundie lite lite?) and my parents had 3 kids, a boy and two girls. I am the youngest female. They had my brother first, and after having my sister 3 years later, my dad told my mom "I want another daughter," so they had me.

In my family I don't think one sex was favored over the other; my family is largely composed of women now due to divorce and deaths. My dad's side only has two male cousins (by marriage), my uncle and my brother are the only male relatives on that side who are living and related by blood. Otherwise it's a mass of women, and all of them are awesome, have great careers and are intelligent. I think my family is a rare exception for the environment I was raised in, though.

I had a very special bond with my dad. He died when I was 14, but he left us each thinking we were his favorite child, Gender was never a question, he loved us for who we were. I think that's the mark of a good parent, personally. I wish Josh would realize that before his daughter does.

[Mama Mia]

I think girls tend to be favored in my family a little bit. Of course people are happy with whatever gender comes along .. but there seems to be a lot more pressure with having sons. There is more to fear regarding gangs, and bullying. Girls, despite having a rougher time of it as adults, have a little more freedom as children and teens.

[Kitty]

Boys weren't favored in my family, but that's probably because my dad was the only male.

Men are favored though in Southern Baptism, which my parents hated. Very, very gender essentialist, women could really only go into "women's work" and were quite limited. The ones I was closest to seemed to be SAHMs or worked part-time. Men could do whatever the hell they wanted; women had to go to Bible studies and talk about womanhood and children and housekeeping. My mom worked her way to where she is now, making a very decent living and she was the breadwinner often when I was growing up. She was a SAHM for a while, then started working part-time, then went back to full-time. She worked while pregnant, up to the days my sister and I were born, and went back not long after. I think she could have stayed home if she really wanted to, but she just didn't want to. I don't blame her, really, I'm like her in that neither one of us has much of a tolerance for boredom. She got along better with men because she has a fairly laid-back personality, and men have better things to talk about than spatulas. My mom very quickly grew tired of the Pampered Chef parties, needless to say. She was told she needed to hang out with more women. She didn't take that very well, and it was when the other women in the church turned on her (for letting me read Harry Potter :roll: ) that she left. Hasn't set foot in a church since.

My dad had none of these problems, but didn't really appreciate the preacher telling my mom to hang out with more women.

The sexism in Christianity is a big part of what made me leave- I realized that even if I did get over my shyness, I'd never become a preacher, I'd be shunned for reading whatever I wanted and listening to the music I wanted and wearing the clothes I wanted, I'd be doomed to scrapbooking and Pampered Chef parties and talking about children. That and I was a very poor fit for Southern Baptism anyway, because I accepted evolution at age 8 and re-affirmed my belief in in at age 11... thanks to that same church. Anyway.

In school I still knew all the Jesus freaks, both in my church and from other churches. They would do very well in classes, but now, it's our sophomore year and one who graduated with me is already getting married. Her older sister, a year older than we are, is already married and just had a baby. I don't know if the younger sister will drop out of Liberty, but the older sister went to my uni and did drop out. Another girl I knew from my church has also recently gotten married. Part of it is that anyone who comes from my hometown will get married quite young, part of it is that evangelical girls get married young. There's a lot of pressure on women to get married and have kids above all else, and guys don't face that pressure. I knew that then and it's still true now.

[ElphabaGalinda]

My dad wanted and got all girls. I think he was worried he would mess up with a son. When I was like 8 and my youngest sister was just born extended family kept asking my parents if they were going to keep trying until they got a girl and I hated that.

[lilwriter85]

Yeah, I definitely see the value of older girls in QF families. Have the girls first so they can help raise the baby boys. I often wonder if Zuzu wishes her older ones were girls so she could require them to help with the little ones.

I was thinking about the same things when Zsu recently announced her pregnancy. Zsu's oldest son Solomon is pretty helpful, but Zsu will limit what he can do. I also wonder if she wishes she had girls first instead of boys. I think she might wish that at least Miriam was older.

[freejoytoo]

I'm a bit sensitive about this because I'm the younger of two girls and don't like the implication that I should have been a boy. I think my dad would have liked a son but not to the extent that he's disappointed that it didn't end up that way. My teacher had three daughters and her mother in law actually told her she had to have a son to 'truly experience motherhood'. Wtf?!

[lilwriter85]

In some families there are preferences for boys for different reasons. In my family, there were two girls and two boys and my parents didn't have a preference. One of my uncles said he preferred boys because they are physically stronger and can help out more with tasks like yard care, maintenance/fixing things etc.

[lilwriter85]

I'm a bit sensitive about this because I'm the younger of two girls and don't like the implication that I should have been a boy. I think my dad would have liked a son but not to the extent that he's disappointed that it didn't end up that way. My teacher had three daughters and her mother in law actually told her she had to have a son to 'truly experience motherhood'. Wtf?!

I have heard similar comments before. Years ago my mom worked with a woman who had three daughters. This woman was disappointed that she and her husband never had a son and she viewed my mom who has both sons and daughters as a "more well-rounded mom." My mom was a bit shocked to hear that but she sort could see why the other woman called her that. My mom had experiences with both boys and girls and the other woman didn't have experiencing raising boys and so she only saw herself as not being in tune with raising both genders of children.

[freejoytoo]

Funnily enough people don't tend to make those remarks to people who only have boys.

[lilwriter85]

I didn't sense it in my family, but there is definitely some pressure from my FIL to produce a male grandson. :roll: He and my MIL had two sons, but the eldest (who is not my husband!) probably won't be having kids any time soon. He's bisexual and will probably end up in a relationship with a man. He says he would like to adopt someday, but it'll probably be a while. When I was pregnant with my daughter, my FIL swore up and down it would be a boy...and of course he was wrong. He's a great man, but he has a lot of cultural ties to carrying on the name and such, so he's been tossing hints for us to have another one. He ADORES his granddaughter (he's especially missing her now as he is deployed) and his wife is a strong feminist, but he still clings to some ideas. I don't want to paint him badly - he's been a great support for my MIL through college and while she's in grad school, but there are some obscure ideas that are really only nominal that he will argue strongly. And one of them is that we need to provide him a grandson. :roll:

Carrying on the name is a very strong tie in some cultures and some families do get saddened when family names die. One of my aunts lost her husband recently, and one of the things she was saddened was with the fact that once her two sons die, her husband's name won't be carried on. One of my cousins only has a daughter, while the other one married in his 40's and his wife can't have children.

[jenny_islander]

We have had otherwise well-meaning people assume that we kept having children until we "finally got a boy." No, we wanted three kids and we have three kids; the first two happen to be girls and the last one happens to be a boy.

Now, my husband did say that if our last one turned out to be a girl too, he was going to move into the woodshed while they were all in the throes of puberty! (He is the youngest of a big and close-knit family, so when he was a little boy he got to see assorted teenaged nieces All Having Drama Together.)

[emmiedahl]

Funnily enough people don't tend to make those remarks to people who only have boys.

I think they do. I know people with only sons who get the same questions: "Are you going to try for a girl? Little girls are so sweet..."

[virginmojito]

I think they do. I know people with only sons who get the same questions: "Are you going to try for a girl? Little girls are so sweet..."

True. If one has one, 'why only one'? If they have 2 of the same jenders: why not try for an opposite jender? If they have 2 of both jenders: why only two? and so on. Conclusion is, people need to mind their own business and keep their nose out of others'. But it seems like too much asking. Maybe 99% of the parents would be completely happy with what they have, after all, it's theirs. Ppl may have preferences (me: girl first, IDC about the rest), but in the end, who cares, we just want healthy children. It is others that keep pestering people for no reason. And that sucks.

[EmmieJ]

I have definitely noticed that it seems that certain segments of society definitely prefer and favor boys over girls. When I was younger, I made friends with a woman who had married an Iranian-born man. They had a daughter first, then 2 years later a son. She told of how when their son was born, all her husband's family came from Iran to visit (they had not when the daughter was born), and that her mother-in-law actually picked up the baby boy and kissed his genitals! It was a huge deal to have a son.

I am fortunate. My parents both came from small families (one sibling each), and wanted lots of children. They had six daughters and two sons. My dad basically treated us equally - we all did outside chores, chopped wood, cared for our animals, learned how to change a tire on the car, etc. Inside the house, there was a little bit of male-female roles, in that the two boys didn't have to do as much cooking, but they had to learn to wash their own clothes, fold them, put them away, etc.

My dad butted heads pretty much with my oldest brother, and my brother couldn't wait to leave home when he got out of high school and enlisted in the Marines. Only after a year or two away from home, did he and my dad's relationship become amicable but sadly, I don't think they were ever extremely close.

I think it does a huge disservice to boys when they are treated as superior to females in every way and kow-towed to based on their sex. I think deep down, many of them fully realize that they haven't done anything special to deserve special treatment. One of the first things I began to question about my religion was why couldn't girls be alter girls but only boys? Why couldn't women be priests if they wanted to? What kind of God said women were lesser? The answer I got was that it was because Eve tempted Adam with the apple and thus caused them both to be thrown out of Eden.

What kind of bull is that? Adam could have said no, the wimp. (And explain how the male is superior if he can't even say no to an apple?)

Anyway, that was the first step to me turning away from most religions, and certainly any that had that sort of philosophy.

[Rosa]

Funnily enough people don't tend to make those remarks to people who only have boys.

I do have a friend who'se the youngest of a large family, and found out as an adult that it was because her mom really really really wanted a girl, so they just kept trying til they got one. She's got a lot of older brothers.