Favoring Boys over Girls

[Mais Pourquoi]

I feel like the answer to this is already obvious, but I'm wondering anyway...

Gathering from what I've seen on Josh's Instagram (that thread is HUGE btw), he features more pics of his son Michael than he does of his daughter Mackynzie. Is there a prevalent thought amongst fundies that boys are *always* better than girls, even as children, even if a girl is the firstborn? I admit I'm completely an outsider when it comes to fundamentalism, and that I've only heard of boys being favored over girls from my great-grandmother's generation (she was born in 1902, and worked farms most of her life). Is this view still pervasive amongst fundamentalist sects of American society?

[dairyfreelife]

Simple answer: Yes. Boys can do things and can provide for themselves (a little with Daddy's help). Girls are useful, but only to be a free maid and nanny, er, I mean, to help with the chores and her siblings.

[tabitha2]

That probably depends;The Maxwells and Loomises for instance have such a hard time with pregnancies any baby is precious and equally welcome while you can tell the Coghlans at LiaS are wanting more boys badly-only 2 boys out of 10 kids just won't do-and the Duggars and Bates just want numbers at this point.But generally a boy carries on the family name, and more importantly, the Dogma of fundie hood-they have a chance t be elected to office one day and go on to take 'dominion'

[Deleted07]

Boys carry on the family name and they are the patriarchs!

Even my own Dad, who was as sweet as they come, had this old fashion value about his only son!

To the point where as a teenager I threw a giant fit when he passed on my grandfathers war medals onto my brother, who had NO interest in them what so ever. I was so angry at this, because I was the history buff who always asked to hear the stories his dad would tell etc. Soon after my brother broke ties with the whole family because of the bitch woman he got stuck with (see getting pregnant on the pill for the 2nd time).

Afterwards my dad realized this wasn't a good idea, and actually stated to me later on that he regretted passing them to him, because no doubt they would have got lost or sold, or donated or God knows what by him, since he had absolutely no interest in them and the woman he was with was so damn vindictive!. And he even admitted he thought he was doing the right thing by giving this heirloom to the man of the family in order the keep the stories and history alive, for him to pass on to his son. But fact is there was NO chance of that happening, so he apologiesed to me for it.

Still gets my goat to this day! But glad my dad at least realised the truth and apologies, which is more than any fundie dad would do!

[Sister Mary Savage]

I remember watching the "First Grandson" special and it was pretty obvious that Smuggar was drinking the gender kool aid. I guess Mack is only special now to Anna?

[virginmojito]

I remember watching the "First Grandson" special and it was pretty obvious that Smuggar was drinking the gender kool aid. I guess Mack is only special now to Anna?

He didn't seem very happy when they were told on whatever tv show that they'll have a girl, back expecting Macky.

And then when they learned that they'll have a son, Josh said: Mackenzie is great, BUT now I'll have a little buddy.

Great, but?! BUT what Josh? But, it's only a girl?? It's not a male child????? And so on. That "but" was something that he shoulda kept to himself.

Anyway the way they take advantage of females... they really should favor them instead, no? Look at her clean. Look at her taking care of 8 offsprings and pleasing me while pregnant again. Look at her wearing exactly what we tell her. Heck, thses creatures are awesome, they'll do whatever the heck we tell them. Shouldn't they prefer girls over boys? After all, it's another womanslave in the household that'll diaper and clean when she turns 3! :twisted:

[Maude]

He didn't seem very happy when they were told on whatever tv show that they'll have a girl, back expecting Macky.

And then when they learned that they'll have a son, Josh said: Mackenzie is great, BUT now I'll have a little buddy.

Great, but?! BUT what Josh? But, it's only a girl?? It's not a male child????? And so on. That "but" was something that he shoulda kept to himself.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. My dad got stuck with three girls, and if he's wanted a boy, he's never said.

[virginmojito]

Oh, Josh wasn't tto shy to let the whole world know on TV that Mack is great, BEEEEEHT not as great as a little boy. Even though 5 ys later, when he and his son are going to sit around in that house of theirs, it'll be Mack to set the table and serve the food she cooked with Anna and it'll be Mack and anna to clean the table and wash the dishes while they can continue sitting around being males.

WHAT on earth would they do without women?! They could not even wipe their butts. Not that in fundieworld every woman is a master chef but they could not even fix a sandwich for themselves.

[nolongerIFBx]

Absolutely prefer boys to girls. It makes me sick. I believe I shared how when our asst. pastor found out he was having a boy first he bragged to his brother, the pastor, who had two girls first basically that God loved him more, he did it right and got a boy first, etc. right in front of his nieces. I guess he thought it was funny. But I don't think it is funny in the least and how do you think he and his brother made those nieces/daughters feel? Like they were nothing. Like they were oopsies until dad got what he really wanted. I don't argue that they love their nieces/daughters but aaagh! I just wanted to walk out. If I'd been closer to the back I would have. Probably should have anyway.

[AmandaP]

Oh yes. In my family boys were absolutely to be preferred. Of course, my mother gave birth to four daughters before having a son 18 years younger than her oldest girl. My dad wanted a son so badly that the entire basis of my relationship with him (as a child) was that I was as good as a boy. It has taken me years to be comfortable with my femininity.

It still shocks me that he had no shame at expressing his preference in front of us over the years.

[Hane]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. My dad got stuck with three girls, and if he's wanted a boy, he's never said.

My dad had three girls, too, and occasionally said, "I'm glad I never had a son--I'm afraid I'd have been too hard on him."

[Helena]

Absolutely favored. My brother could do no wrong and I could do no right. My mother disliked me immensely. My father and I got along fine when my mother wasn't around until I hit puberty, and then I was downright trash. I was never helped or asked what my future plans as far as college or career was concerned. Just told that they had been praying since I was born that I would marry a godly man.

My brother was given preference and first choice in everything, from pets, to choice of musical interests, campaigning for his admission to West Point, .. Ugh, I'm bitter. Yes. NOT OVER IT, yet. I'll get there.

When I left the church, the Pastor had 11 chilluns with no plans for stopping. I remember helping out in the kitchen for VBS and his eldest daughter was about to go off to BJU and she was talking about her major. She was keenly interested in police work, which is understandable. Her revered father was chaplain at two different police precints. Anyway, she shrugged her shoulders and said that her dad wouldn't let her take the courses she wanted because the line of work she preferred was not for women and he was trying to "protect" her. However, I didn't feel too badly for her, because she had spirit. I think she had a sneaky side and would flout the rules when it suited her.

[browngrl]

I think I am really lucky. Indian culture does tend to favour boys over girls (just look at the # of female fetuses that are aborted in India) but my dad never has.

He told me years ago that the day he became a feminist was the day I was born. He said he picked me up and decided then and there it was his job to see that I had every opportunity. When I was born it was not the thing to celebrate the birth of girl (in my parent's circle of friends/relatives) and people were quite surprised (some shocked) that my dad would want to spend a lot of money having a big celebratory party for me. I credit my dad's support to the fact that one of my sisters and I are doctors and my other sister is a lawyer and none of us are anyone's tool.

[Helena]

I think I am really lucky. Indian culture does tend to favour boys over girls (just look at the # of female fetuses that are aborted in India) but my dad never has.

He told me years ago that the day he became a feminist was the day I was born. He said he picked me up and decided then and there it was his job to see that I had every opportunity. When I was born it was not the thing to celebrate the birth of girl (in my parent's circle of friends/relatives) and people were quite surprised (some shocked) that my dad would want to spend a lot of money having a big celebratory party for me. I credit my dad's support to the fact that one of my sisters and I are doctors and my other sister is a lawyer and none of us are anyone's tool.

Outstanding! Your dad is a REAL man.

You are fortunate!

[slickcat79]

If they were thinking logically, they would want to have girls first in a QF family. I don't know what Michelle would have done the last few years without the J'slaves. And since your daughters are under your headship until they get married, you can keep them around indefinitely to do all the work, while your son will probably want to establish his own household earlier. I think once you get to a family the size of the Duggars, Bateses, etc. you know you have plenty of boys and so you don't really care one way or another.

I've seen Josh be very loving with Mackynzie. As a manly boy-child, he's only going to do so much work to care for her, but I could see that he wanted to hold her and spend time with her. Maybe that will change now that he has a son, but I think he is happy with his daughter. They made a big deal about the "first grandson" on the show, but I have a feeling that they would have done the same thing if the sexes were reversed and they were having a girl second after having a boy.

[Avalondaughter]

If they were thinking logically, they would want to have girls first in a QF family. I don't know what Michelle would have done the last few years without the J'slaves. And since your daughters are under your headship until they get married, you can keep them around indefinitely to do all the work, while your son will probably want to establish his own household earlier. I think once you get to a family the size of the Duggars, Bateses, etc. you know you have plenty of boys and so you don't really care one way or another.

Yeah, I definitely see the value of older girls in QF families. Have the girls first so they can help raise the baby boys. I often wonder if Zuzu wishes her older ones were girls so she could require them to help with the little ones.

[Guest Anonymous]

In the Southern Baptist fundie-medium family I grew up in, boys were totally favored. My brother had so much more freedom than me and my sisters that it was ridiculous. He was the golden child. Meanwhile, I grew up feeling that God loved me less because he made me a girl. It sucked and I feel really lucky that the toxicity of that dynamic didn't ruin my relationship with my brother. It wasn't his fault, but I still resented it.

[Mommy22alyns]

I think I am really lucky. Indian culture does tend to favour boys over girls (just look at the # of female fetuses that are aborted in India) but my dad never has.

He told me years ago that the day he became a feminist was the day I was born. He said he picked me up and decided then and there it was his job to see that I had every opportunity. When I was born it was not the thing to celebrate the birth of girl (in my parent's circle of friends/relatives) and people were quite surprised (some shocked) that my dad would want to spend a lot of money having a big celebratory party for me. I credit my dad's support to the fact that one of my sisters and I are doctors and my other sister is a lawyer and none of us are anyone's tool.

You ARE lucky! Your dad is an awesome man, just what a father of daughters should be. :clap:

[Trynn]

I didn't grow up fundy, but in my family it was still like this, simply because there were more girls than boys. Boys could have good things said about them in their presence, but not us girls, because we might get big heads.

And most of us girls ended up having really low self esteem....

It's actually my fear that, as a parent, I'll end up overcompensating for this and favor the girls...

[Katiebug]

Not fundie here, but I think that the fundie and some fundie lite segments still value boys over girls.

Among our peer group there seems to be a lot more emphasis on/social pressure related to having one of each. A boy and a girl is percieved as the "perfect" family. These are well-educated, pretty affluent folks, and that ideal is still one of each. We know several couples who have two daughters and are DONE, yet are asked often when they're going to be trying for a boy, as if it's some sort of a tragedy to only have girls! :?

Some friends who are from other cultural backgrounds seem to have boys be more favored. It's a mix of how strong the preference is, with mainland Chinese on one end (very boy-centric, even the women!) to Indian couples (who can go either way on the boy preference) to Italians (lots of talk about wanting a son to carry on the family name, but not really a big deal to have girls).

We have one daughter and hope for 2-3 children total. We love having a daughter but would be totally fine with having only girls, or to have a mix. We didn't find out our first baby's gender until delivery and won't with any future kids, either - it just doesn't matter to us. Then again, we're not from a cultural or religious background that favors boys.

[YPestis]

I feel my dad secretly wanted a son but he never openly said anything. Of course, it helps that I'm an only child. My mother was adament that she would never favor one child over another (of course, she thought she was the favored child growing up of both parents...).

My parents were college graduates in China at a time when they were a rarity. They moved in educated elite circles that associated male favoritism with ignorance and lack of good breeding. However, Chinese society still reinforced the attitude that having sons was a thing to be celebrated. It sometimes seeps into conversations but my parents made a conscious decision to avoid any such attitude.

[fundifugee]

In my family, the boys had their university paid for by my parents; my sister and I had to work our way through and take out loans (hey we were lucky to even be allowed to work and go to school).

Girls had chore lists from a very early age, but when my brothers (both younger) got "old enough" to start doing chores, they were paid for them (they started at a way older age than I did and were doing the same chores).

I would come home from college and my mom would do me the favour of letting me sleep for a day since I'd have been working day and night on finals and papers; then I would start working in and out of the home. My brother would come home, bring all his dirty laundry to be washed, would get big meals cooked for him, and would leave for school with fifty dollar bills slipped in his suitcase because the poor dear couldn't be expected to work on his school holidays or hold down a work-study job.

The predictable result was that it took my sister and I four years to finish undergrad and get a job, whereas it took my brother 7 or 8 years.

A second benefit of this arrangement was that when I had enough of the Bible Colleges of my parents' choosing, I announced that since I was paying, i was going to attend whatever university I wanted to. It was a big step towards leaving the oppressive religious family millieu.

("Benefit" = unintended negative consequence for my parents and their stupid belief system)

[emmiedahl]

My husband prefers girls. Not among the individual children, but whenever I am pregnant, he really wants a girl. He grew up with three sisters and they were treated like little princesses; his father told my sons once that the measure of a man is how happy the women in his household are, and that seems be his basic life philosophy. My husband was also treated very well as a child, so he is not bitter or anything. I don't know if this is a traditional Italian thing, but his relatives are all of the same mind.

I can see wanting to have both genders in your family. I have very different relationships with my sons than my daughters. But I don't prefer either as a rule. My brothers were spoiled more than the daughters when I was growing up, and it did them no favors. My sisters and I all are tough people. The older sisters and I were taught to work hard and expect no favors, while the brothers are all kind of entitled and needy. My parents have (finally) stopped spoiling them because they can see that they are being used.

It has not been good for our sibling relationships as a whole. My sisters and I still have bitch fests about what the parents did for the boys in the past. We get really jealous of each other, which is ridiculous because most of us are in our thirties. I am not entitled to a car from my parents, so I should not be jealous that my parents bought one for my brother, but I am. Ditto with college tuition, free houses, etc. Even though it is all in the past, it really bothers me that no expense could be spared for the boys while the girls were all struggling themselves.

tl;dr Waaah, my parents totally preferred the boys!

[Mais Pourquoi]

Interesting responses, everyone!

[JenniferJuniper]

My husband always wanted girls as well. And he got his wish 2 out of 3 times.

He had a distant relationship with his father, but had one sister his father adored. So he had the mindset that fathers and daughters have better relationships than fathers and sons.

I think in our culture the general preference for boys as less to do with "carrying the family name" than it does the notion that men have things somewhat better still. Women still make less money, are much more likely to be sexually assaulted from childhood on forward, one in three will be a victim of domestic violence sometime during her life, and we are still fighting for basic reproductive rights. When expecting, we all want the best for our unborn child. And a boy may be more likely to get a chance to experience "the best".