Lyndsie's adoption story

[Wolfie]

Not adopted, never given any babies up for adoption, but I have had friends who were adopted, who gave babies up, and who have adopted. NO family is simple, no family is 100% happy about everything. Even when you think you know everything about your background, there is still so little that you know. Unplanned pregnancies are not in of themselves "bad." Giving a child up for adoption is not in of itself bad either. There can be complications in everything. Keeping a child or planning a pregnancy isn't always good either. Life is life and nothing is all good or all bad. If those who were adopted think that their emotions might be simpler without the adoption, that might not be the case. It would be so nice if life was that simple.

[Rachel333]

"International adoption" cannot be lumped into all one thing or another. Some countries do have serious corruption problems. Guatemala was closed down, in part, because of these corruption issues (women's babies were being stolen from them and adopted to U.S. citizens) Other countries have ethical considerations that are not so clear-cut. Some places in Africa have a lot of children who are true orphans (no living parents) but who may have been raised with extended family if they weren't misinformed about certain aspects of adoption (iirc, some cultures do not think of adoption as we do and believe that basically the children will go to live and be educated in the U.S., then sent back later) Other people object to places like Russia adopting out children who are not true orphans. Many children adopted from Russia have living parents who are not capable of caring for them, so they send them to live in orphanages and may visit them (kind of like institutional foster care, though in Russia the children do have to have been abandoned (no visits) for a certain period of time before being offered for adoption) And there are also people who think there should be no international adoption at all and that if the potential adoptive parents really cared for children, they'd sink their money into improving the children's homelands so they could stay in their own countries.

That's funny because I'm pretty sure no one here has done that.

[Feberin]

You can make making open adoption agreements not acceptable (not sure making them illegal is possible), but that still doesn't mean potential adoptive parents can't unofficially say they want an open adoption (most of them will be telling the truth) For all those websites might talk about how great open adoptions are (and I think in most cases they are better than closed adoptions), I've never seen any of them tell expectant parents that they can enforce open adoptions. However, if it proves necessary, I'm all for expectant parent counseling covering the fact that in most states OA agreements are unenforceable.

[Austin]

Everyone brings their biases to this issue, not just the poster speaking out against some adoption practices. People who have adopted children or are trying to adopt are going to feel very differently than what she feels based on her experiences. I took most of what she said to just be general attitudes that she has experienced from all sorts of people, not what people were saying here so much. I thought she was just trying to explain where she was coming from, and that she had some personal experience from which she was speaking. Obviously, others have different experiences. All are equally valid, obviously.

People do get up in arms if negativity is expressed about adoption. I've seen it on numerous occasions online, and it was argued about vehemently in my moms of sons forum, even though most arguing about it were neither adopted or an adoptive mom. Go figure.

I do think that adoption is offered up as the go-to panacea solution to women with unwanted pregnancies and that some women are guilted into giving a child up when they wouldn't have otherwise. It's the very reason "crisis pregnancy centers" exist. It is a decision that is complex and will have ramifications that last a lifetime and it should be made freely. I think a lot of women have experienced intense pressure by family or church or their communities to go the adoption route, when if our society would just support these women in a more effective way, they might be able to keep and raise their baby.

[Angri-la]

I was going to stay off of this thread, really I was, but I have a thing or two to say about adoption (look at my posting count title!). I will say I don't know how they were able to get 2 healthy babies in such short order, especially with her health problems, and their financial irresponsibility. I have a much less worrisome health problem, and it was something I had to spend a lot of time documenting to prove I was fit to adopt. My husband and I are financially stable, excellent members of our community, and good people; our letters of recommendation make me weep! I do have a lot of curiosity about the how, considering my own years of trying to adopt. There are so many people out there who want to adopt, and I find it curious that they were approved and could afford it--private adoption is not cheap!

27randomscribbles: I can see that you have a lot of pain surrounding your adoption. Might I suggest a book? The Primal Wound: http://www.amazon.com/Primal-Wound-Understanding-Adopted-Child/dp/0963648004. I found it, as an adoptive mother, to be very enlightening. I can't know what it is like to be adopted, but I do know what a joy it is to finally have a child of my own.

Adoption is, indeed, a hot button issue, but there are as many experiences as there are adoptions. I've been trying to adopt for a long time, and managed to a few years back, privately. The sad tale: The contract gave the birth mother 1 year to change her mind, I was desperate, and I signed. 9 months later, she wanted her/our daughter back. The little girl I named Violet, the little girl whom I held and rocked and changed diapers for is gone from me forever, and I will never know what happened to her. Legally, I can never contact her. That hurt.

On to my successful story--those of you who know the Ladybug saga can skip this part ;)

I may change my mind as I get older, and my daughter gets older, but only if SHE wants to meet the woman who gave birth to her, and made her first 3 years of life pure hell. My daughter was born addicted to methamphetamine, and was placed into state custody almost immediately. The state tried to help the biomom clean up, and Ladybug was in and out of her "care" for the first 3 years of her life. My daughter will never be able to find the sperm donor, as he was a john, and low-rent prostitutes do not keep records of their clients. My daughter spent the time with her biomom being neglected, abused, and saw all kinds of unspeakable things, to be sure. Her biomom never stopped doing drugs or turning tricks. Finally, she was removed for good, and the Foster Care system gave me a call. Upon meeting me, my sweet Ladybug, with all the intensity of a 3 year old said "You're my Mommy". It was not a question on either one of our parts.

We don't talk about "Her", except every once in awhile in therapy. Ladybug hates the mention of the biomom, and I don't blame her.

Will we both feel differently when she is 18? Maybe. But it will take a long road of healing and love and patience to help her through her righteous anger @ the biomom. I hope one day I can thank her for creating and carrying my child, but both the child and I need a lot of healing before that day dawns.

As far as negativity towards adoption? Only rude people who assume she is from another country, or the bitchface sister in law who made a snide comment about us being "trendy" for adopting a child of a different race. Um, we didn't order her from a catalog, and she was born in a small American town. Now Ladybug comes up with some fairly snarky zinger responses when people get too curious. The other day she said "My Mommy had too much cocoa when I was being made", to some nosy woman on the bus. Ah, like mother, like daughter!

[Austin]

Too much cocoa? OMG, the child is a riot!

I was hoping you'd post, angri-la.

[Angri-la]

Too much cocoa? OMG, the child is a riot!

I was hoping you'd post, angri-la.

[Austin]

You knew I would! I wrote a post earlier on my phone, and the dang thing ATE it. Yes, she is hilarious, although she is in a mood tonight, as I had the nerve to wash her favorite sheets, and she has told me, in no uncertain terms, that the ones currently on her bed are unacceptable, and she will not be going to bed until she gets the ones she wants. Of course, I will likely give in, too tired for a temper tantrum tonight!

And I am a complete sucker for that child!

[Rachel333]

The other day she said "My Mommy had too much cocoa when I was being made", to some nosy woman on the bus. Ah, like mother, like daughter!

[Rosa]

Nothing in adoption is a given, and no one's experience is the same. I don't claim that.

All I believe is that 1. All adoptees should have the right to know who their first parents are, and the right to their original birth certificate; 2. Anti-choice agencies such as CareNet should have no connections with adoption agencies (really, they shouldn't exist the way they are now at all) 3. Adoption should be through public means and not private--no one should make money off of adoptions; 4. All first mother's should be given all information about adoption, and not lied to and told it'll all be forgotten with time; 5. Open adoptions (if desired by the first parent/s) should be legally enforceable in all states.

Those are things I want to change. But they won't change if those who speak up as I do are kept quiet or guilt-tripped into backing down.

[Wolfie]

You knew I would! I wrote a post earlier on my phone, and the dang thing ATE it. Yes, she is hilarious, although she is in a mood tonight, as I had the nerve to wash her favorite sheets, and she has told me, in no uncertain terms, that the ones currently on her bed are unacceptable, and she will not be going to bed until she gets the ones she wants. Of course, I will likely give in, too tired for a temper tantrum tonight!

And I am a complete sucker for that child!

[27randomscribbles]

Angri-la,

I'm glad you finally were able to adopt, and you sound like the type of parent who can handle adoption pretty well! The fact that you have read The Primal Wound tells me a lot...(I've read some of it, and it is very helpful!). The fact that my parents were fundie-lites didn't really help them in handling any problems... :)

[Angri-la]

Angri-la,

I'm glad you finally were able to adopt, and you sound like the type of parent who can handle adoption pretty well! The fact that you have read The Primal Wound tells me a lot...(I've read some of it, and it is very helpful!). The fact that my parents were fundie-lites didn't really help them in handling any problems... :)

[Angri-la]

I think she would get along well with my niece- except they both sound like leaders.

[Wolfie]

I wish they could hang out! She needs more friends who "aren't boring with dolls".

[Patsy]

Instead of saying adoption is wrong, why not try to fight for more rules in regards to adoption?

Where did Caxpax say adoption was wrong?

[Vex]

This. Adoption is a tragedy, 100% of the time.

Wow, I feel kind of insulted by that. There is nothing tragic about people who wanted me adopting me. They've given me a wonderful life. My adoption was never a secret, and I have met my biological mother. Her story is pretty tragic, but in the end she gave me up because she knew my quality of life would be extremely poor if she kept me. She has two other children who are happy and lovely. Everything worked out for the best for all of us, and none of us have any regrets.

27randomscribbles - You say that people are invalidating your feelings as an adoptee with a bad experience - please don't invalidate my feelings that my adoption, specifically, was a wonderful thing. I know that adoption is rarely without heartache for the adoptee, but this was never the case for me. I honestly do feel for you. I know so many people who have had negative feelings towards their adoption, and I know that happy adoptions are far more rare than most people think. You can say and feel whatever you want about your adoption, and adoption in general, but please don't tell me my feelings and experience must be wrong.

Anyway. Yes, foster-adoptions can happen quickly and one after the other. These adoptions were not foster-adoptions. Daniel and Lyndsie have been married for less than three years. At one stage, they had to beg for $1000 for a home study. They are not comfortable financially. Lyndsie hasn't reached her 5 year cancer-free checkpoint as far as I know, and has already had two bouts of cancer. She is high risk for a relapse. I'm not saying people with health issues shouldn't be able to adopt, but I also don't think they're being terribly responsible. They've only been married two years, they're so young that they could definitely afford to wait a few more years to save money and to let Lydnsie get stronger.

I find the adoption suspicious and I just can't be happy about it. The fact Lyndsie so obviously wanted a girl - not just a girl, but an Aubrey - rubs me the wrong way, too. I am just so uncomfortable with the whole thing.

[notsocommon]

This may be controversial to some, but I believe that the stigma surrounding abortion has to be gotten rid of. I think if abortion were destigmatized, the rate of infant adoptions would go down. If a woman has abortion as a choice (and abortion stigma makes it not a choice for many) then they won't feel as if adoption is their only choice.

So abortion is preferable over a child being adopoted out?

How about, indstead, we give a full and complete sex education to our kids? How about we make sure those who want it get birth control, for free if necessary? How about we get rid of the remaining stigma of teen/single motherhood? How about we provide real economic help to women who find themseves pregnant and unable to provide 'a good life' to their kids.

[notsocommon]

I'm really trying to cut you some slack here because you are clearly in a lot of pain but it's becoming clearer with each post that you believe your opinions and feelings are the only ones that deserve validation. That's ironic coming from someone who is lecturing others about opening up their minds.

She wants to do 'research', too. Too bad it won't be valid because she is so very obviously biased.

(I would say the same if someone thought that adopotion was all sunshine and butterflies and wanted to 'research' it. No 'research' is valid until you get your bias under control.)

[clibbyjo]

I wish they could hang out! She needs more friends who "aren't boring with dolls".

I have a feeling your in for what I get from my daughter, that attitude sounds very familiar! Too bad you didn't live by me, my 12 year old LOVES little ,tough girls and as she is now helping coach 4-7 year old girls hockey she would have ladybug on skates teaching her how the cool girls do it. :clap:

[27randomscribbles]

She wants to do 'research', too. Too bad it won't be valid because she is so very obviously biased.

(I would say the same if someone thought that adopotion was all sunshine and butterflies and wanted to 'research' it. No 'research' is valid until you get your bias under control.)

All researchers are biased in some way. However, they also have studied how to create studies that are as nonbiased as possible. I don't do any studies now because I have not completed the nine years or so of schooling to become the sort of researcher who can put aside their biases to create good studies. For that matter, I would never conduct studies on my own, but would work with others to make sure we are not injecting bias into questions via wording of questions, etc. The kind of research I am talking about isn't just reading around and forming an opinion. I am working on an MA in another field, and I cannot make any statements in a paper without backing them up with respected, academic, peer-reviewed books or journals. However much I might like to just put my opinion, (and I absolutely have opinions in the interpretation of literature), I cannot do so if my paper is to have any integrity whatsoever. The same would hold true for any research or studies I would carry out in the future. I am biased on this blog because it's a damn blog! I state my opinion just like anyone else.

[puddle]

This. Adoption is a tragedy, 100% of the time.

I very much disagree. The circumstances that necessitate an adoption - yes, always a tragedy. But the adoption itself? By no means.

[YAHsome]

delurking for a moment to post something...

I came across a link to this account on Facebook this morning and thought of this thread. It's a story by a woman who was raped and gave up the baby for adoption.

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.actio ... 4981002988

It's a really interesting story because she ends up meeting the daughter she gave up. She also would have had an abortion if she had the money to do so. So it's making me think this morning.

... back to lurking status...

[Austin]

There are a lot of people who believe that abortion is preferable to adoption, so that's not exactly an unheard of position. Other regular posters have expressed that here at FJ. I am somewhat on the fence with that one, but when people are talking about that, they are usually referring to the single, young woman (I think teenager) with few/no resources who is told by the anti-choice folks, "Oh, just give your baby up for adoption". As if it's that easy. For her, yes, I can get behind that abortion may be a better choice for her, for a zillion reasons. That doesn't make me anti-adoption, however. There are a zillion children who are already born who would benefit greatly from being adopted into a loving, stable home. For those children, I think adoption is a fantastic option, particularly when compared to long-term foster care or life with an abusive or neglectful parent.

22randomscribbles, I agree with angri-la that you may want to avoid adoption threads as they might be very triggering for you. You are just as entitled to your opinion as anyone else, of course, and I don't personally feel you've expressed it, for the most part, inappropriately. But there are people here who are looking to adopt a newborn, or have, and it will be hard for them to see anything except through that lens, and I think that's where the hostility arises. You see things through your particular lens based upon your experience. Never the twain shall meet. Just a suggestion.

[Austin]

delurking for a moment to post something...

I came across a link to this account on Facebook this morning and thought of this thread. It's a story by a woman who was raped and gave up the baby for adoption.

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.actio ... 4981002988

It's a really interesting story because she ends up meeting the daughter she gave up. She also would have had an abortion if she had the money to do so. So it's making me think this morning.

... back to lurking status...

That's very heartwarming, but I'm not sure what the point of posting it is or what exactly it's supposed to make people think. . .Good, I'm glad things worked out for her, but that doesn't change the fact that no woman should have to carry and deliver her rapist's baby to adoptive parents if she chooses not to, not even for some hoped-for Chicken Soup for the Soul-like scenario 25 years later.