Lyndsie's adoption story

[YAHsome]

Sorry for posting the link. I wasn't trying to make anyone think anything. I'm pro-choice. I read the article and it made me think about my own stance. It didn't change my mind, but it was good to ponder it all. I only posted the link because of the discussion in this thread about women becoming pregnant through rape. This woman didn't have the money for an abortion. Of course, this was decades ago, but I am sure this still happens.

[Austin]

Sorry for posting the link. I wasn't trying to make anyone think anything. I'm pro-choice. I read the article and it made me think about my own stance. It didn't change my mind, but it was good to ponder it all. I only posted the link because of the discussion in this thread about women becoming pregnant through rape. This woman didn't have the money for an abortion. Of course, this was decades ago, but I am sure this still happens.

It wasn't necessarily my intent to come down on you for posting the link, but when you gave so little explanation or background and just basically posted that it was making you "re-think", it just kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

[27randomscribbles]

So abortion is preferable over a child being adopoted out?

How about, indstead, we give a full and complete sex education to our kids? How about we make sure those who want it get birth control, for free if necessary? How about we get rid of the remaining stigma of teen/single motherhood? How about we provide real economic help to women who find themseves pregnant and unable to provide 'a good life' to their kids.

Did you miss the part where I stated very clearly that it was my personal opinion? If I get pregnant, I feel adoption would be far worse than an abortion. I wish my mom had had that choice, but for a variety of reasons it was unavailable to her. I'm glad to have easy access to abortion in this time and in my city. Not everyone is so lucky.

As for the rest, I don't want abortion or adoption to be coerced. While my choice (should I become pregnant now) would be to abort, I don't feel pressure to do so for any reason. My hubby and I are financially ok, I just don't want kids for ten more years or so. That is ok.

I believe in making it possible for anyone to take care of a baby I'm for mandatory paid maternity leave (and paternity leave) like in most European countries. I am very left wing and believe daycare should be free for low income parents. We should make it easier, not harder, for working mothers to have children. I also believe in universal healthcare--physical or mental health issues shouldn't be the deciding factor against keeping a child.

I support sex Ed and believe birth control should be free or low-cost based on income, plan b should be also free and available. I believe abortion should also be free and on demand in the first trimester. (obviously available in all trimesters if necessary for health or mental health or special circumstances).

These are all my opinions of course, but I think t would go a long way in preventing unwanted pregnancies and/or births, and makin it possible for people to have children (planned or not) without having to feel like its impossible due to lack of finances.

[27randomscribbles]

delurking for a moment to post something...

I came across a link to this account on Facebook this morning and thought of this thread. It's a story by a woman who was raped and gave up the baby for adoption.

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.actio ... 4981002988

It's a really interesting story because she ends up meeting the daughter she gave up. She also would have had an abortion if she had the money to do so. So it's making me think this morning.

... back to lurking status...

My bio mom was raped. I wish to god it had never happened to her. I wish abortion had even been a choice for her. I have no answers but I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

[valsa]

And most parents understandably want babies, and the vast majority of international adoptions are babies, but if you think about it there are going to be very few babies who are true orphans.

"Babies" is a subjective term. Most parents want newborns, and that's why, in any given year in the U.S., there are an equal number of newborn domestic adoptions as there are ALL international adoptions. In many countries today, it's impossible to adopt a child under a year old (especially with Guat. closed and Ethiopia slowing down) and it's getting more and more difficult to adopt a child under 2 year old by the time they get home (especially white children)

I'm sure you've heard the stories of orphanages in Vietnam full of babies who suddenly had almost none after adoptions closed again.

That doesn't automatically signal corruption. Birth mothers in countries with established U.S. adoption programs aren't necessarily that much different from birth mothers in the U.S. Some of them simply want their children to have a better life than they feel able to provide (whether it's actually better is a subject for discussion, of course)

That's why I'm personally not bothered by adoption of non-orphans internationally. If a mother is this or another country wants her child cared for by people who can give it more than she feels able to (this may be monetary (maybe the adoptive parents have more money and are able to provide better opportunities than the birth family) or it may be emotional or physical (maybe the birth mother has mental or physical disabilities that she think would make it difficult for her to care for her child, maybe she is overwhelmed with caring for the children she already has, or maybe it's just that she's single and wants two parents for her children), I'm still going to trust her judgment. It doesn't automatically mean she's been pressured or coerced into giving up the child (other than by general life circumstances)

[27randomscribbles]

Wow, I feel kind of insulted by that. There is nothing tragic about people who wanted me adopting me. They've given me a wonderful life. My adoption was never a secret, and I have met my biological mother. Her story is pretty tragic, but in the end she gave me up because she knew my quality of life would be extremely poor if she kept me. She has two other children who are happy and lovely. Everything worked out for the best for all of us, and none of us have any regrets.

27randomscribbles - You say that people are invalidating your feelings as an adoptee with a bad experience - please don't invalidate my feelings that my adoption, specifically, was a wonderful thing. I know that adoption is rarely without heartache for the adoptee, but this was never the case for me. I honestly do feel for you. I know so many people who have had negative feelings towards their adoption, and I know that happy adoptions are far more rare than most people think. You can say and feel whatever you want about your adoption, and adoption in general, but please don't tell me my feelings and experience must be wrong.

Anyway. Yes, foster-adoptions can happen quickly and one after the other. These adoptions were not foster-adoptions. Daniel and Lyndsie have been married for less than three years. At one stage, they had to beg for $1000 for a home study. They are not comfortable financially. Lyndsie hasn't reached her 5 year cancer-free checkpoint as far as I know, and has already had two bouts of cancer. She is high risk for a relapse. I'm not saying people with health issues shouldn't be able to adopt, but I also don't think they're being terribly responsible. They've only been married two years, they're so young that they could definitely afford to wait a few more years to save money and to let Lydnsie get stronger.

I find the adoption suspicious and I just can't be happy about it. The fact Lyndsie so obviously wanted a girl - not just a girl, but an Aubrey - rubs me the wrong way, too. I am just so uncomfortable with the whole thing.

I never ever said you were wrong to feel good about your adoption. I'm glad you do! I think my religious parents could have handled things differently, been more open and truthful about my mom. Maybe I'd also feel good! I think adoptive parents should get more info from agencies on potential issues and tips to deal. They should also be encouraged to be as open and honest as possible. Maybe if my parents had heard this they could have been more prepared.

Oh and when that person said 100% of adoptions are a tragedy, I don't take it to mean it can't turn out really well I take it to mean something tragic occurred for the adoption to be necessary at all. Which I agree with. This doesn't mean everything won't turn out great, sometimes it does! My parents just adopted my sisters baby. It's tragic that my sister still acts 14 and treats my parents like shit and let them do all the work raising my niece (she lives with my parents but they can't get the heart to kick her out) even though she's in her twenties now. I hope to god it all turns out great. Only time will tell. I think my niece will have it better...I made my parents swear they wouldn't spank (in my case, it was more like a beating) her. She has a crazy aunt who is very different beliefwise and I think my parents have grown more open minded.

I'm really glad all is well for you. Hopefully parents will get more help and counseling so more adoptees can have great experiences!

[valsa]

I know this isn't a study or even first hand but on Teen Mom it sounded like Caitlynn didn't realize that the adoptive parents could cut off contact. Also while it's a single instance my SIL put a baby up for adoption and after a couple years they stopped sending updates or pictures. My SIL is married with two more children and has a job. I can understand ending contact with a drug addict or somebody who had obvious mental issues but it seems wrong to promise to stay in contact and then stop. That said I think the adoptive parents have the right to make the decision about what is best for their child.

I have not watched Teen Mom but from what I've been told from a friend who watches it (her observation, not mine), Caitlynn may have heard what she wanted to hear (regardless of what was actually told to her) and the adoptive parents in that case had a good reason to cut off contact (apparently the bio parents' families are very dysfunctional and a possible threat)

What happened to your SIL is regrettable but there's no way to know why the adoptive parents cut off contact. Open adoptions are tricky. Maybe they thought it was for the best for some reason, maybe they had some underlying issues (jealousy or feeling like the baby wasn't really theirs if they kept in contact) I've seen both (far more the former than the latter) I've also seen adoptive parents who were just confused about whether they should continue because the birth mother never responded to any contact they sent and they weren't sure if the pictures and updates they were sending were even welcomed. Sometimes the adoptive parents don't have any ulterior motive- they may just be muddling through unclear waters as best they can.

[27randomscribbles]

To those who suggest it might be better on my emotions to avoid this blog, thank you for being considerate. It probably would be easier. However, I see it as similar to my pro-choice activism. In debates or protests I have spoken to some really anti-choice and often fundie people...and they can be hurtful. I was once told by a fundie that I should not use bc and that the answer to end abortion is for the fathers to help...when I told him my bio mom was raped he said she should have forgiven and married him! Obviously this guy had a case of the fundie crazies but I comes up a lot when dealing with people who don't believe women have the right to their own bodies, and who think all we are good for is baby making. But even though it is emotionally draining, I can't stop being an activist for choice.

Similarly, I can't stop telling my story. I don't want adoptive parents to stop adopting, nor do I think they are bad (aside from the few religious nuts). I do think that they need to hear the "bad" stories, not to scare them or piss them off but to help prepare them for possible issues that can be helped by being open, respectful of bio parents, etc. I want them to have more tools available to help make it more likely that they will have a great adoption experience.

Also, my counselor for now feels that writing (blogs, journals, etc) can help me pinpoint my feelings so we can work on them. It's not easy but I want to work through my hurt so I can put it behind me and forgive my parents and figure out how to have a good relationship with all my families. I have extra to work with because of religion, but I think many here get that!

EDITED to clarify here that I don't mean to compare anyone here to anti-choicers (I know most here are awesome!) hjust the idea that no one ever seems to agree.

[27randomscribbles]

Valsa,

Totally agree that most adoptive parents are just "muddling through" and are sometimes confused about how to best do things. Most just want to do what is best (even my parents). I found out through my bmom (she let me see the letters, assuming I knew about them) that my a mom had written her updates and sent pics for the first year or so. Then she stopped. I don know why but I imagine she was just unsure and trying to do the best. Someday I will ask but I'm not ready yet.

[valsa]

I do think that they need to hear the "bad" stories, not to scare them or piss them off but to help prepare them for possible issues that can be helped by being open, respectful of bio parents, etc. I want them to have more tools available to help make it more likely that they will have a great adoption experience.

I don't disagree with this. I think that all sides should be presented with all available scenarios. For instance, I've seen a lot of adoptees who wanted to track down their bio families be encouraged by other adoptees who had good outcomes with that. I've also seen some of those people crushed when their bio parents wanted nothing to do with them, because that's not an option that was ever realistically presented to them. I've also seen adoptees who were expecting some kind of magical instant connection to bio family, only to find out that it was essentially like trying to forge a meaningful relationship between two strangers (because that's basically what they were) I'd personally like to see these "find your biological parent/child" reunion companies require counseling for their clients to inform them of all possibilities, just as much as I'd like to see required counseling of expectant parents for them to be fully informed.

[Rosa]

I think the agencies are often the villain of the piece - friends of mine who adopted, they sent regular updates but after a year or so the agency just stopped forwarding them. By the time they found out, the little bit of info they had about the birth mom was so old they couldn't track her down at all for a few years. They finally found her on facebook and just msged her, "do you want any information or contact?" and she had thought they had just dropped her, not that the agency did.

[Hisey]

There are people who never adopt, but blog about it endlessly online--this one is good, this one is bad, these folks should do this.

Then there are people who bring homeless children into their home, and love them, doing the best they can for the most part.

I wonder who helps kids more? Adoption is about kids, and helping them find homes.

I also notice that adoption debates ("She didn't deserve a baby!") never seem to occur about the 12-year old blind girls in foster care. No one seemed to care whether their adoptive parents are worthy or not, or whether their adoptive home is "good enough." It's always about cute little babies, and whether the adoptive parents deserve them.

Is adoption a tragedy? You'd have to ask my girls. They'd say having their adoptive mom taken away would be a tragedy. They'd say that growing up malnourished would have been a tragedy. I think they are in the best position to conclude this, much better than bloggers who have opinions but no experience

[Rosa]

Hisey, even assuming your own adoption agency was 100% staffed and overseen by angels, don't you think it's tragic that families can be so poor, or so torn apart by addiction or violence, that they can't raise their own children?

[valsa]

Hisey, even assuming your own adoption agency was 100% staffed and overseen by angels, don't you think it's tragic that families can be so poor, or so torn apart by addiction or violence, that they can't raise their own children?

Not Hisey but I indeed think that's tragic. I also think it's equally tragic when a child is raised in a home without enough food or where their parents can't care for them due to addiction or where they are victims or witnesses of violence.

The tragedy lies in the poverty, addiction, and violence, not in the adoption.

[QAF_Rocks]

This may be controversial to some, but I believe that the stigma surrounding abortion has to be gotten rid of. I think if abortion were destigmatized, the rate of infant adoptions would go down. If a woman has abortion as a choice (and abortion stigma makes it not a choice for many) then they won't feel as if adoption is their only choice.

I don't think there should be stigma surrounding abortion, but it's my understanding that very few women choose adoption. This is going off a statistic Dr. Drew gave (so take it with a grain of salt), but he said that the number of women choosing adoption is 1% or 2%. Even if that's slightly off, it would still seem that the vast, vast majority of girls and women with unwanted pregnancies either abort or decide to keep their babies.

Maybe there are some subcultures (like the fundie subculture) where a woman would feel as if adoption is her only choice, but it seems like the real pressure is on women to keep their babies, at least if the girls on 16 and Pregnant are anything to go by. Many of the girls seemed to feel that abortion would be "selfish" and "not taking responsibility," and adoption would be "too hard" and "not for them."

[Austin]

Not Hisey but I indeed think that's tragic. I also think it's equally tragic when a child is raised in a home without enough food or where their parents can't care for them due to addiction or where they are victims or witnesses of violence.

The tragedy lies in the poverty, addiction, and violence, not in the adoption.

QFT.

The adoption isn't the tragedy at all. That the need exists for it is, though, because for some reason or another, two people created that child and cannot raise it. Maybe they died (tragedy) or are too sick (tragedy), maybe they didn't have the resources (tragedy), maybe they just sucked as a parent (tragedy), maybe they're drug addicts (tragedy, or in jail (tragedy).

Thank heavens that loving people adopt babies/children out of these situations where their parents can't/won't care for them. I probably have pretty harsh views on how many "chances" a crappy parent should get from the courts before the child can be adopted into a better life. Not many.

[QAF_Rocks]

The adoption isn't the tragedy at all. That the need exists for it is, though, because for some reason or another, two people created that child and cannot raise it. Maybe they died (tragedy) or are too sick (tragedy), maybe they didn't have the resources (tragedy), maybe they just sucked as a parent (tragedy), maybe they're drug addicts (tragedy, or in jail (tragedy).

I agree with the above situations being tragedies, but there could also be a case of a woman who just doesn't feel the desire to parent a child. If she found herself unexpectedly pregnant and decided to choose adoption, I wouldn't consider that a tragedy. Obviously, it would have been easier for her if the pregnancy had been prevented in the first place, but the end result of a baby being adopted into a loving home would seem like a positive outcome.

[Austin]

I agree with the above situations being tragedies, but there could also be a case of a woman who just doesn't feel the desire to parent a child. If she found herself unexpectedly pregnant and decided to choose adoption, I wouldn't consider that a tragedy. Obviously, it would have been easier for her if the pregnancy had been prevented in the first place, but the end result of a baby being adopted into a loving home would seem like a positive outcome.

Could happen, but I seriously doubt that most adoptions occur because of this. Lots of things could happen.

[QAF_Rocks]

Could happen, but I seriously doubt that most adoptions occur because of this. Lots of things could happen.

I think most women in that situation choose to abort, but it might not always be possible. Or the woman might not feel comfortable terminating the pregnancy.

But I don't think it's far-fetched that some women choosing adoption might be doing so because they don't want to raise a child. We have plenty of childfree women on FJ who don't feel the inclination to parent. I actually think it might be more common than suspected that a pregnant woman would truly have no desire to be a mother. But can you imagine the cultural pressure such a woman would face? Society expects women to want to be mothers, but what happens if you don't want that for yourself and you happen to be pregnant to boot?

Adoption culture is largely based around the idea that the birthmother wants the baby, even if she is unable to raise it. I just don't think that's true in all cases. I would bet that a lot of women who don't feel that way feel incredible pressure to keep it secret. It doesn't really fit the whole theme of sacrifice if a woman admits that she didn't have warm-gooey emotions about the baby or feel an overwhelming desire to keep it.

[emmiedahl]

My youngest sister was adopted. Her mother was in a bad, bad place to raise a child--similar to Angri-la's daughter's birthmother, but she gave the baby up for adoption at birth instead of abusing/neglecting her for years. The adoption was supposed to be open, but the birthmother bailed on it after a few years.

My baby sister has been such a positive part of our lives. I am so thankful to have her and I think she belongs in our family. I think she has curiosity and issues, but that the outcome is much better than if her birthmother had chosen to raise her.

My husband and his sisters were adopted by their stepfather in early childhood and also seem very happy with it. One of my husband's sisters tried to track down their birth father, who apparently left the country and went back to Italy after the divorce. She was unable to find him, and the other siblings did not understand why she even tried. The birthfather abandoned their mother and them, and they were all lucky that another man was happy to step into that role.

So, there can be success stories. Adoption is a way of creating a win from a loss. In a perfect world, all children would have parents who are equipped and inclined to parent, but this is not a perfect world.

[valsa]

My husband and his sisters were adopted by their stepfather in early childhood and also seem very happy with it. One of my husband's sisters tried to track down their birth father, who apparently left the country and went back to Italy after the divorce. She was unable to find him, and the other siblings did not understand why she even tried. The birthfather abandoned their mother and them, and they were all lucky that another man was happy to step into that role.

This is similar to my family. My paternal grandfather abandoned my grandmother, my father, and uncle when my father was very young (4 years old or so) Luckily, my grandmother then married a wonderful man who adopted my father and uncle and treated them as if they were his own (until he unfortunately died when my dad was a pre-teen) My father has always considered his adopted father to be his only father and has never been interested in finding his biological dad. My uncle did actually manage to track him down but, like your husband and sister-in-law, my father never understood why he would want to. As far as I know, the relationship between my uncle and bio grandfather never went anywhere and I don't think they're in touch anymore.

[demgirl]

I will say that I think open adoptions should be enforceable. I think a bio-parent who hears, "This adoption is open, but of course the adoptive parents can change their mind" usually isn't in a place where he/she can contemplate the adoptive parents actually changing their minds, for many reasons -- the bio parent is making a difficult, life changing decision with a large stress factor and lots of information coming at once, he/she usually cannot afford legal advice to explain the true ramifications of adoptive parents changing their minds, I think adoptive parents are often so desperate to make the adoption work that they are inclined to promise the moon (and they may mean it) without soberly considering the reality of what they are promising, etc.

Basically, I think it should be a contract with set limits and expectations that can be enforced. That way both sides know exactly what they are promising and receiving. If you want a closed adoption, that's fine -- but be upfront about it -- take the time to really consider if you can manage an open adoption or not. Decide before the child is placed and commit to it. That doesn't mean it should be a free for all, baby-sharing experience -- although it could be, I suppose. Just that everyone should have legal representation, decide what they can and cannot live with, and enter into an enforceable agreement on that basis, whether it's pictures twice a year and a promise to give a letter and contact info at 18, a visit once a year, or two hours with the child a week. Whatever. OF course, you can set limits that would be equally enforceable, such as vesting all legal custodial rights in the adoptive to parents (for things like medical, legal, educational decisions) or a termination of visits if the bio-parent becomes violent or emotionally disturbed or doesn't follow the rules of the contract.

[valsa]

I will say that I think open adoptions should be enforceable. I think a bio-parent who hears, "This adoption is open, but of course the adoptive parents can change their mind" usually isn't in a place where he/she can contemplate the adoptive parents actually changing their minds, for many reasons -- the bio parent is making a difficult, life changing decision with a large stress factor and lots of information coming at once, he/she usually cannot afford legal advice to explain the true ramifications of adoptive parents changing their minds, I think adoptive parents are often so desperate to make the adoption work that they are inclined to promise the moon (and they may mean it) without soberly considering the reality of what they are promising, etc.

Basically, I think it should be a contract with set limits and expectations that can be enforced. That way both sides know exactly what they are promising and receiving. If you want a closed adoption, that's fine -- but be upfront about it -- take the time to really consider if you can manage an open adoption or not. Decide before the child is placed and commit to it. That doesn't mean it should be a free for all, baby-sharing experience -- although it could be, I suppose. Just that everyone should have legal representation, decide what they can and cannot live with, and enter into an enforceable agreement on that basis, whether it's pictures twice a year and a promise to give a letter and contact info at 18, a visit once a year, or two hours with the child a week. Whatever. OF course, you can set limits that would be equally enforceable, such as vesting all legal custodial rights in the adoptive to parents (for things like medical, legal, educational decisions) or a termination of visits if the bio-parent becomes violent or emotionally disturbed or doesn't follow the rules of the contract.

I'd honestly prefer a requirement for the expectant parents to have legal representation provided by the agency, along with the counseling, before I'd support making OA agreements enforceable. Although I support expectant parents having legal representation anyway.

[Vex]

Thank you for your reply. When you were talking in absolutes about adoption it did feel like you were saying good experiences can't really be that good, but I understand better what you were saying now.

My adoption wasn't perfect - my birth mother tried to get me back after the adoption was final and she got pregnant almost straight away (resulting in my half-brother, who she kept), and after I got to know her she totally cut me out without telling me why - I tried to invite her to my wedding and I had to do so through one of her brothers, but he said she wouldn't go but didn't know what her issue was. I had hoped to build a relationship with my half-siblings and with her. I think she expected that after I contacted her I would want constant contact (although I was careful to explain I didn't know what would happen in the future) and when that didn't happen she was hurt. I think that most of the time there is hurt and sadness involved in adoption, but I don't think always that makes it a bad experience.

I find it very hard to watch Teen Moms, so I basically don't. It reminds me too much of the path untravelled - what my life might have been like if my teenage mother had kept me with no father, no parents and no money.

[Feberin]

I have not watched Teen Mom but from what I've been told from a friend who watches it (her observation, not mine), Caitlynn may have heard what she wanted to hear (regardless of what was actually told to her) and the adoptive parents in that case had a good reason to cut off contact (apparently the bio parents' families are very dysfunctional and a possible threat)

What happened to your SIL is regrettable but there's no way to know why the adoptive parents cut off contact. Open adoptions are tricky. Maybe they thought it was for the best for some reason, maybe they had some underlying issues (jealousy or feeling like the baby wasn't really theirs if they kept in contact) I've seen both (far more the former than the latter) I've also seen adoptive parents who were just confused about whether they should continue because the birth mother never responded to any contact they sent and they weren't sure if the pictures and updates they were sending were even welcomed. Sometimes the adoptive parents don't have any ulterior motive- they may just be muddling through unclear waters as best they can.

I agree that nobody knows why they cut contact and they could have a solid reason however it wasn't like she was visiting the baby. They haven't sent pictures or any updates in like five years. My MIL has contacted them (through the adoption agency) to let them know about risk their daughter has for a genetic disease that was diagnosed in both my MIL and other SIL after the adoption took place.

I think the problem with having an enforceable thing is that there can be unforseen circumstances that happen after the adoption especially in the extremely open adoption situations with visits and such. What might seem like a good idea at first might not seem as good if the child spends days crying afterwards. What if the birth mother ends up in prision would the adoptive parents be forced to bring their child to visit in those circumstances? What if the birth father gets on the sex offender list for child porn do they still have to send pictures? It would be tricky to put in a contract all the possible reasons to end contact.