Lyndsie's adoption story

[Rachel333]

"Babies" is a subjective term. Most parents want newborns, and that's why, in any given year in the U.S., there are an equal number of newborn domestic adoptions as there are ALL international adoptions. In many countries today, it's impossible to adopt a child under a year old (especially with Guat. closed and Ethiopia slowing down) and it's getting more and more difficult to adopt a child under 2 year old by the time they get home (especially white children)

If you look at the statistics, which actually surprised me, a huge majority of international adoptions are of children under 2. http://adoption.state.gov/about_us/statistics.php

That doesn't automatically signal corruption. Birth mothers in countries with established U.S. adoption programs aren't necessarily that much different from birth mothers in the U.S. Some of them simply want their children to have a better life than they feel able to provide (whether it's actually better is a subject for discussion, of course)

The US government did think it signaled corruption. I think this is the article I saw: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... mments=yes Here's another simplified article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/op ... inionsbox1

That's why I'm personally not bothered by adoption of non-orphans internationally.

I don't think it's automatically a problem either, it's just that there have been too many cases of children who were supposedly orphans but really weren't.

But for happier stories, I love to look at Reece's Rainbow: http://reecesrainbow.org , especially the stories of children who have already been adopted: http://reecesrainbow.org/category/spons ... dyhome2011 They help special needs children, mainly those with Down Syndrome, be adopted. A lot of those kids in Eastern Europe will be sent to some really horrific institutions if they aren't adopted before age 4 or 5. It's sad that their biological families probably couldn't take care of a special needs child, but it's really neat to see their new families.

[MrsKay]

I see both good and bad sides to adoption, although my family's experience has been negative. My older sister was placed for adoption, and was told for more than 20 years that her birth mother was a druggie, an alcoholic, didn't want her, had no idea who the father was, just this insane pack of lies (it was all typed up in the files from the agency, which my sister showed us when she and Mom were reunited). That was heartbreaking for all of us. My sister had almost been placed at birth - my mother stood up to HER mother before the adoptive parents could take my sister home. She was then placed at 7 months, after months of the agency and my maternal grandmother (who ironically adopted my mother) nagged, guilt-tripped and brainwashed my mother into believing that she would only ruin her child's life if she kept her. When she gave birth to my oldest brother a couple of years later, they would have had to have pried him from her cold, dead hands to get him.

I'm 6 years younger than my sister, but it hurt me, because I saw my mother crying on her birthdays and on special occasions. Even before I knew what the reason was, it still screwed me up to see her so messed up (having to receive inpatient psych care on at least one occasion because of the adoption), hearing her crying and hearing my parents whispering at night about some secret that made my mom sad.

When I learned that I had an older sister, I was thrilled. However, I soon began to feel like a replacement baby. At times, I thought that my mother must have tried for another girl just because she wanted me to replace my sister. Ironically, when she learned of my existence, my sister was jealous because my mother kept me and not her; we both felt as though Mom wanted the other more, and we had some rough years before we talked through it.

People still try to coerce girls and women into adoption in horrible ways, and I know that from experience as well. When my first child was born, I was 16. They still had "central nurseries" at the hospital I was at, and my daughter had to stay in there for a couple of days of phototherapy. When I went in on the day before she went home, I saw a nurse with a well-dressed couple, and at least two women, who I assume were social workers or agency representatives. I found them standing over DD's bassinet, and at first, assumed they were just relatives of another baby, admiring her like some people do. Then I began to get a weird vibe, from the way they were focused on just MY baby, cooing and whispering back and forth, and eying me up at the same time. The couple left when the nurse saw me observing them, and I went to nurse my daughter behind one of the screens in there.

I had a lot of trouble with breastfeeding, and by day 5, I was pretty distraught. While I was trying to fight back my tears as I tried to get her latched on, the nurse remarked that having a baby was a pretty hard job for me. I thought that she was being sympathetic, until she followed that by asking if I planned to place my baby for adoption. I was offended, since there was nothing stating that, and I probably wouldn't try to work out nursing if I planned adoption. After she spoke, she left me alone for a bit, and then came back with the "social workers". This time the couple was also in the background, and I knew damn well what was going on by the almost desperate looks in their faces. Once again I was asked if I planned to place her for adoption, and once again I said no.

Her father had come in at some point, and for once I was glad for his quick temper and ability to intimidate people. He hadn't heard any of the adoption stuff, but he guessed by seeing me crying, surrounded by those people. He told the charge nurse that absolutely no one who was not employed in the nursery was allowed to look at the baby, and insisted on a screen in front of her bassinet.

I developed a bit of soreness in my c-section incision that I was worried about, so I had it checked out by one of the doctors. He asked where my baby was, and I told him that she was in the nursery. He glanced over at my chart, and said "You're putting her up for adoption, aren't you?"

I pretty much lost it, and haunted the nursery full-time after that. The next morning, the couple and the "social workers" showed up again. Cue whispering while huddled together, shooting furtive glances in my direction. Again they asked me. Since I had few visitors (everyone was working or too far away), they assumed that I had no family or support system, and should be delighted to hand over my daughter. I was told that she was a beautiful baby who any couple would love to have. I called my mom, my mother-in-law, and my ex; my ex showed up 20 minutes later, with a car seat, and after a heated argument with the nurses and doctor on call, grabbed my daughter and had us into the car within 10 minutes.

I have no idea what I would have done if I didn't have the support system that I had. They seriously screwed with my head, and should have been charged. So, long story, but yeah, I know there are girls who are still being coerced into adoption.

That said, I would really love to one day adopt an older child (over the age of 5), one who really does have no chance without adoptive parents.

In regards to Lyndsie, I'm disgusted still. I can only imagine what might have gone on behind the scenes to arrange those adoptions. I also feel terrible for the little boy; BabyKay is almost a year old, and he is still so babyish and dependent on Mommy, and I can't imagine how he'd deal with it if I brought home a baby tomorrow. She had a choice to take the baby girl, unlike bio families having to adjust to births or multiples. She wanted a daughter so badly that I think her poor little boy will be getting his attention from everyone but Mommy. It's almost like he was just a practice run before the REAL baby came. I just get that vibe for some reason. And it's very selfish, IMO, to adopt when your cancer could come back and slap you in the face at any minute. Those babies could be without a mother, and she knows it. She just makes me feel stabby.

[Vex]

MrsKay, your story made me literally feel sick. I would have reported them to... somewhere, some kind of authority. How disgusting, they had no right to treat you that way! And I can't help but feel bad for that couple, who desperately wanted a baby and were probably lied to by the same nurses, doctors and 'social workers' who treated you so deplorably. To give them false hope and dangle a real, tangible, live child in front of them... I can't imagine how much that hurt. I think that what they did to you was even worse - you were struggling, and you needed their support. They let you down completely. I am so sorry you went through something so traumatic and terrible, and I am very glad you had a support system to help you through it.

[27randomscribbles]

MrsKay I'm so sorry. I'm really happy you had a good support system and were able to keep your daughter...but what you had to go through with those people makes me want to just scream at the assumptions people make and that couple's idea that they'd somehow be "better". No one's a perfect parent so I don't know how some people can assume someone else is not as good. My adoptive parents are married and stable but they were also abusive (in the fundie way..."spanking") and don't love each other anymore...it can happen to anyone no matter how they seem on the outside. Someday I hope that more and more women have better support systems as our society keeps changing...so that less will have to suffer like your mother, and my (biological) mother as well. I am trying to figure out how to have a relationship with my bio family and it's hard...it doesn't all "fall into place" after you find each other, especially since lies were told about my mom as well. I hope we can both figure it all out.

[Caxpax]

And I can't help but feel bad for that couple, who desperately wanted a baby and were probably lied to by the same nurses, doctors and 'social workers' who treated you so deplorably. To give them false hope and dangle a real, tangible, live child in front of them... I can't imagine how much that hurt. /quote]

I had planned on backing away from this thread, because it was making me furious and I obviously wasn't getting my point across at all, but serious- WTF? That couple was there at the invitation of- whom exactly? What presumptuous ASSHOLES to have come into that nursery- even if there were social workers or nurses dangling that baby in front of their noses. I don't feel bad for them at all. Why would they think that they are entitled to a kid and any 16 year old's baby should be theirs? I don't care what they were told, the first time that they saw MrsKay with her child they should have realized that they were not getting their paws on that kid and gotten the hell out of there.

And how generous that you think that what they did to MrsKay was "Even worse" -- DAMN STRAIGHT.

God forbid you have a child and some nice looking couple wanders up and thinks that they can do a better job of raising it than you can-- even if a social worker told them you might be ripe for exploitation- would you feel bad for them for having false hope if they start following your kid around, or showed up at the nursery when your child was a few hours old?

[MarciaBrady]

I find it almost amusing that there are so many people who are insisting that Lyndsie pressured a birth Mom into giving her their baby, and that she doesn't care about Ethan and really only wanted a boy when there is not one shred of evidence that any of that stuff is true.

None of us have any idea what went on behind the scenes with the adoption. And as for the gender thing, when she started the adoption process Lyndsie set up a gender-neutral nursery, she was buying gender-neutral clothes and she consistently said "he or she" when referring to the future baby. There was never any point when she showed a gender preference. She didn't start adding pink to the nursery or referring to the baby as "she" until she was chosen by a birthmother who was having a girl, and as soon as that adoption fell through she went right back to referring to the baby as "he or she." It's ridiculous to keep insisting that someone feels a certain way when there is no evidence to back that up.

I completely understand why people are bothered by Lyndsie adopting when she hasn't reached the five-year mark with her cancer remission. But the other criticisms being made against her are all based on nothing. I guess I just don't understand how people can have such disgust for someone based on unsupported assumptions. I personally am going to reserve my disgust for people that I actually know are harming their children, the ones who write blog posts where they brag about beating their kids and making them sleep on shelves. I don't have emotional space left over to be disgusted with someone over reasons that people have invented in their minds.

[valsa]

If you look at the statistics, which actually surprised me, a huge majority of international adoptions are of children under 2. http://adoption.state.gov/about_us/statistics.php

Yep. However, you have to take those numbers in context. In 2011, 15.5% (1,442) of international adoptees were under 1 year old. 40.3% (3,752) were 1-2 years old. 15.5% (1,442) were 3-4 years old. Contrast this to 2000 when the numbers were 49.% (9,341), 32.5% (6,134), and 6.9% (1,309), respectively. Children being adopted are getting significantly older than they used to be, even though they may be relatively young (which is not all that young to many people)

The US government did think it signaled corruption. I think this is the article I saw: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... mments=yes Here's another simplified article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/op ... inionsbox1

I'm not saying it can't signal corruption, just that corruption isn't the only explanation. If you shut down domestic newborn adoption in the U.S., the number of newborns released into the foster care system would not equal the amount usually adopted out via domestic newborn adoption.

That couple was there at the invitation of- whom exactly? What presumptuous ASSHOLES to have come into that nursery- even if there were social workers or nurses dangling that baby in front of their noses. I don't feel bad for them at all. Why would they think that they are entitled to a kid and any 16 year old's baby should be theirs? I don't care what they were told, the first time that they saw MrsKay with her child they should have realized that they were not getting their paws on that kid and gotten the hell out of there.

Depends on what the couple were told, more than what they saw. Some birth mothers like to spend the time in the hospital with their babies, before signing over their rights. It's possible the social worker told them Mrs. Kay wanted to adopt out the baby but also wanted to spend time with it until she was discharged from the hospital. Of course, as soon as they heard her say that she wasn't interested in adoption, they should have gotten their asses out of there (and left their adoption agency)

Mrs. Kay, what you experienced was criminal. I don't know how long ago that was but hopefully you filed a complaint or it's near enough time-wise that you still could. What they did was absolutely unacceptable. I know my local hospital would have probably called in social workers in your case but that has everything to do with statutory rape laws (for girls who give birth before they're 16 years and 9 months old) and nothing to do with possibly giving the baby up for adoption. I’m sorry you had to go through such a stressful thing when you were already vulnerable. I know that back in the 70s, my mother had a similar experience when she gave birth to my older brother (also at 16) and it always pissed me off how she was treated.

[MrsKay]

My feeling is that the couple had been told that my baby was likely to be placed for adoption; they looked far too hopeful and interested in her, IMO, to have just wandered in and decided to see if they could win at Baby Lotto.

This was 14 years ago, so I'm pretty sure that the statute of limitations would be up. Not to mention the fact that nurses were in on it, too. There was no question of statutory rape, as they assumed we were married (could just be how things work where we live). Honestly, aside from a couple of scathing phone calls from our mothers about my general treatment (the older, married moms were treated fine, I was treated like absolute garbage), we wanted to get away from that mess as fast as possible. It was VERY traumatic; I had one of our mothers come with me to every appointment, and anywhere in public in the early days, because I was absolutely terrified. I wound up experiencing PPD, but was too afraid to tell the doctor, because I thought that they'd take her away.

I'm so sorry for everyone who has gone through terrible adoption experiences, themselves or their family members. I do believe that happy adoptions exist, and I'm very glad for everyone who is able to experience such.

[QueenMother]

Barf. Two babies who in all likelihood had extended family who could have cared for them but they were probably placed because that's what jeebus wanted. Lyndsie and Daniel are selfish, awful people.

Ouch! This is harsh and completely uncalled for.

[desertvixen]

((((( Mrs Kay )))))

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

I find it almost amusing that there are so many people who are insisting that Lyndsie pressured a birth Mom into giving her their baby, and that she doesn't care about Ethan and really only wanted a boy when there is not one shred of evidence that any of that stuff is true.

I completely understand why people are bothered by Lyndsie adopting when she hasn't reached the five-year mark with her cancer remission. But the other criticisms being made against her are all based on nothing. I guess I just don't understand how people can have such disgust for someone based on unsupported assumptions. I personally am going to reserve my disgust for people that I actually know are harming their children, the ones who write blog posts where they brag about beating their kids and making them sleep on shelves. I don't have emotional space left over to be disgusted with someone over reasons that people have invented in their minds.

This. Seriously people-get a grip. Let's snarl at 'ThatWife' JShelle LoraLyn and other crap mother. Not someone who we have no evidence of being anything other than a fundy-lite women who is infertile and so adopts 2 children. Shock. Horror. And as a nurse who has worked in oncology, 4 years in pretty much as good as 5, it's the first 2 which are the danger years.

[NurseNell]

I completely understand why people are bothered by Lyndsie adopting when she hasn't reached the five-year mark with her cancer remission. But the other criticisms being made against her are all based on nothing.

And the length of her marriage. I'm ad adoptive mom, none of the agencies we worked with would have accepted a couple who had been married such a a short period. They also would not have placed a 2nd child so quickly.

[Feberin]

This. Seriously people-get a grip. Let's snarl at 'ThatWife' JShelle LoraLyn and other crap mother. Not someone who we have no evidence of being anything other than a fundy-lite women who is infertile and so adopts 2 children. Shock. Horror. And as a nurse who has worked in oncology, 4 years in pretty much as good as 5, it's the first 2 which are the danger years.

Lyndsie has also shown that she struggles with making good finanical decisions. They couldn't find $1,000 for a homestudy yet go out to eat every week and pre-children took frequent vacations. I also remember Lyndsie continuing to buy little girl stuff after the adoption fell through for her baby. To me that makes me think she wanted a girl.

[NurseNell]

And as a nurse who has worked in oncology, 4 years in pretty much as good as 5, it's the first 2 which are the danger years.

She had ovarian cancer which recurred. The majority of ovarian cancer in young woman is the less aggressive type, a germ cell tumor. It accounts for only 5% of ovarian cancer and mostly occurs in women under 30. This cancer has a survival rate of 95%. Young women can get the far more aggressive epithelial cell ovarian cancer which has a significant mortality rate. While we don't know which type she had she did have a recurrence, which is more likely with epithelial cell cancer and per her own report still has some cancer cells left in her peritoneum. Ovarian cancer is one cancer that uses 5 years as the marker for reducing the risk of recurrence. Lyndsie's count would start with the date of the recurrence, and still having cancer cells is not a good sign.

[AmyP]

This. Seriously people-get a grip. Let's snarl at 'ThatWife' JShelle LoraLyn and other crap mother. Not someone who we have no evidence of being anything other than a fundy-lite women who is infertile and so adopts 2 children. Shock. Horror. And as a nurse who has worked in oncology, 4 years in pretty much as good as 5, it's the first 2 which are the danger years.

Really. I agree. This lady isn't perfect, but I don't understand the hate.

[NurseNell]

Really. I agree. This lady isn't perfect, but I don't understand the hate.

Oh, I don't get the hate either. I don't have the energy it takes to hate in real life, never mind someone I don't know on the internet.

[Hisey]

I think it's because they see babies as a valuable commodity, and they don't think Lyndsie deserves one.

If Lyndsie was adopting a 12-year old blind girl, no one would give a hoot.

[ceg045]

Most of my antipathy toward her comes from not from their eventual adoption, but her begging for donations from blog readers to fund a home study beforehand.

She's got a perfect right to, of course, but I think it's in very poor taste. She wasn't asking for donations to pay for life-saving or life-enhancing medical treatments, or to fund research for any number of medical issues. And they appear to lead a very comfortable lifestyle, yet when asking for donations, they made no indication of how they had cut back on luxuries to fund it themselves. If they can't afford the $1000 home study, they're going to have a bear of a time when it comes to shouldering the cost of actually raising a child to adulthood. The whole thing just came off as greedy to me.

If they have their babies now, more power to them. I hope it was all done responsibly and above-board and that the children's biological parents are receiving the support that they need.

[emmiedahl]

I think they could totally afford the home study but felt entitled to help. They did not want to make lifestyle changes until baby was in arms. Lyndsie seemed pretty extravagant for a young would-be mother living on one income. That entitlement is what gets me. They felt entitled to a heavenly shower of perfect Caucasian infants, and also entitled to having other people pay for it. That just sucks.

[Vex]

I think it's because they see babies as a valuable commodity, and they don't think Lyndsie deserves one.

If Lyndsie was adopting a 12-year old blind girl, no one would give a hoot.

Not true at all. If she adopted any children, I would feel the same way - and so would pretty much everyone else, I'm willing to bet. In fact, if she adopted a blind 12-year-old girl, I would be far more upset. It's much easier for a young baby to blend into a family than it is an older child. Five months between babies is bad, but five months between children would be so selfish and against the child's best interests that someone here would probably contact CPS. Hell, I'd do it myself - no adoption agency would allow it.

Babies aren't as expensive as kids. They can barely afford the babies - how would they pay for two children who need fresh, healthy food, and school, and especially in the case of this hypothetical blind girl, medical care? If the worst were to happen and Lindsay's cancer came back, it would be far more traumatic for older children to go through, especially if she were to die. Basically, all the points people have made about the adoption of the babies being ill-advised would apply even more in the case of older, disabled kids. Nobody would take that lightly.

There are some people saying the way she obtained the babies was suspicious and have an issue with it. The majority of people posting haven't mentioned that specific issue, and the majority of people who mentioned that issue also are also troubled by Lindsays's health, the wellbeing of the kids and their lack of money.

If you think this forum only gives a flying fuck about babies, you clearly haven't read the many threads about the adopted children (not babies - children) other fundies have taken on and subsequently treated poorly or outright abused.

[lilwriter85]

Most of my antipathy toward her comes from not from their eventual adoption, but her begging for donations from blog readers to fund a home study beforehand.

She's got a perfect right to, of course, but I think it's in very poor taste. She wasn't asking for donations to pay for life-saving or life-enhancing medical treatments, or to fund research for any number of medical issues. And they appear to lead a very comfortable lifestyle, yet when asking for donations, they made no indication of how they had cut back on luxuries to fund it themselves. If they can't afford the $1000 home study, they're going to have a bear of a time when it comes to shouldering the cost of actually raising a child to adulthood. The whole thing just came off as greedy to me.

If they have their babies now, more power to them. I hope it was all done responsibly and above-board and that the children's biological parents are receiving the support that they need.

I think a lot of people here dislike Lyndsie because of her asking for donations, while refusing even work part time. Prior to them asking for the 1 grand for the home study, Lyndsie once blogged about their anniversary in which Daniel gave her a silver ring and she gave him an iPod Touch and sometime after that they gave Lyndsie's dad an iPod too. Most of the 1,000 dollars could have came from the costs of those three gifts. I think Lyndsie and Daniel were living above their means and when they decided to have a home study done, they didn't have the money because of the gifts and other expenses

Lyndsie was already used to getting donations because she received a lot of donations during her cancer bouts. In those situations, there wasn't anything wrong with asking for donations because she was dealing with a serious medical condition. But asking for donations to fund an adoption looked really bad because adopting a baby isn't a need. There were a few times on the blog that Lyndsie said that she was shopping at TJ Maxx, Target, and thirft stores to save money. I kind of believe that but I don't think she and Daniel were cutting back on other luxuries. I remember that they used to eat often with friends and family. I think Lyndsie could have at least taken some babysitting jobs or part time jobs to at least contribute to the fund herself.

I hope Lyndsie and Daniel are learning to manage money wisely and several months ago she was selling clothes on Facebook. I think maybe they knew they were going to get another baby and need extra money or they had a wake up call about the costs of raising children. I hope Lyndsie stays healthy and is eventually cancer free. I do worry about her mainly because she has no education, vocational training/job skills or a good work history. If something happens to Daniel whether it is disability, death, or job loss, their family would suffer a bit.

[Feberin]

Not true at all. If she adopted any children, I would feel the same way - and so would pretty much everyone else, I'm willing to bet. In fact, if she adopted a blind 12-year-old girl, I would be far more upset. It's much easier for a young baby to blend into a family than it is an older child. Five months between babies is bad, but five months between children would be so selfish and against the child's best interests that someone here would probably contact CPS. Hell, I'd do it myself - no adoption agency would allow it.

I would be shocked if Lyndsie had adopted an older or special needs child. But I would be even more concerned. I'd be worried Lyndsie wouldn't realize the amount of money and time a special needs child requires. I also could see Lyndsie expecting an older child to spend as much time on appearances as she does even if they are blind. And while some children might love sitting there for hours while she does their make up and hair others might think there are better ways to spend their time.

Oh I just wanted to edit this to add that I don't actually hate Lyndsie. I find her annoying but I think hate is a bit strong of a word to describe how I feel abouther.

[MarciaBrady]

I also remember Lyndsie continuing to buy little girl stuff after the adoption fell through for her baby. To me that makes me think she wanted a girl.

That didn't happen. She went back to buying gender neutral baby stuff.