Ow. JRMoore forfeits "bow chicka wow wow" title

[MamaJunebug]

ahthelife.blogspot.com/2011/06/law-liberty-podcast-john-robert-moore.html

Quick version: Rushdoony is a major influence in his life.

Sorry, being a female, I can't get excited about a good-looking male if I know his brain is scrambled. No matter how good-looking.

[tehgoobster]

ahthelife.blogspot.com/2011/06/law-liberty-podcast-john-robert-moore.html

Quick version: Rushdoony is a major influence in his life.

Sorry, being a female, I can't get excited about a good-looking male if I know his brain is scrambled. No matter how good-looking.

He's cute, but I've never thought he was hot. He's too skinny for my taste. But yeah, he's definitely pro-VF and all that entails (including being a Rushdoony fan).

[TheDarkSideLuke]

Meh. I like his video blogs and I think he's cute. This interview is pretty old (he won the film festival award in 2009) and I think he's grown out of that brain scrambling since then. He seems fun and even goofy on his vlogs. Even if he is still scrambled, celebrities usually are, so he gets to be my celebrity crush in spite of his Rushdoonien transfixiation.

He does need to eat more beef and potatoes though! Nobody wants to sleep with a garden rake.

[duplessis3]

Since Rushdoony was a racist and a misogynist, that would cross JR off my list.

[TheDarkSideLuke]

Oh. I didn't know that.

*reconsiders*

[emeraldskull]

Eh... he's kind of a jerk. :-P

[TheDarkSideLuke]

Ok. Now I need help. John Moore is a presbyterian who follows Rushdooney, an old Presbyterian racist. Doug Phillips is not a Presbyterian, and at least attempts to not be racist (ie, blatant 'look at our black friends' allof the time) and follows ATI. From what I've read on blogs and various religiowikis, Rushdooney people and Gothard people are like cats and dogs. The same is true of presbyterians and ATI people. So why is John Moore such a big deal to douggie and Vision Forum groupies? Isn't he supposed to convert?

EDIT:

Eh... he's kind of a jerk. :P

Which one? Rushdooney or Moore?

[teddybear]

Not my type. I like them slender, but he looks emaciated.

[TheDarkSideLuke]

Not my type. I like them slender, but he looks emaciated.

Yeah he does.But that's an old picture too. the video he posted at christmas was MUCH better.

johnmoorefilmmaker.com/2010/12/keep-your-powder-dry-moore-family-2010.html

He's SUPER pompous and so is his whole family but he is healthy looking.

[tehgoobster]

I think Andrew Torres should claim this title. Some of the fundie guys we discuss here are cute (John Moore, JT Phillips, etc.), but Andrew is one of the few I would describe as hot.

[tehgoobster]

Ok. Now I need help. John Moore is a presbyterian who follows Rushdooney, an old Presbyterian racist. Doug Phillips is not a Presbyterian, and at least attempts to not be racist (ie, blatant 'look at our black friends' allof the time) and follows ATI. From what I've read on blogs and various religiowikis, Rushdooney people and Gothard people are like cats and dogs. The same is true of presbyterians and ATI people. So why is John Moore such a big deal to douggie and Vision Forum groupies? Isn't he supposed to convert?

I would say that the vast majority of people in Vision Forum's inner circle are Calvinists (including Doug Phillips and John Moore), but some of them are Baptists and some of them are Presbyterians, for example. I wouldn't say that Doug Phillips follows ATI, per se. He seems to be on relatively friendly terms with Bill Gothard, and IBLP and VF seem to share board members, but IBLP seems more Independent Baptist/Arminian than Calvinistic. Judging from observation, people and families in VF's inner circle are pro-Rushdoony, though that may not necessarily be the case with those who are more on the IBLP side of things.

[tehgoobster]

Meh. I like his video blogs and I think he's cute. This interview is pretty old (he won the film festival award in 2009) and I think he's grown out of that brain scrambling since then.

Unfortunately, I'm not so sure about that. He's a fan of the Chalcedon Foundation, which is Rushdoony's organization, on Facebook. I think it's safe to say that he's still a fan.

[TheDarkSideLuke]

I would say that the vast majority of people in Vision Forum's inner circle are Calvinists (including Doug Phillips and John Moore), but some of them are Baptists and some of them are Presbyterians, for example. I wouldn't say that Doug Phillips follows ATI, per se. He seems to be on relatively friendly terms with Bill Gothard, and IBLP and VF seem to share board members, but IBLP seems more Independent Baptist/Arminian than Calvinistic. Judging from observation, people and families in VF's inner circle are pro-Rushdoony, though that may not necessarily be the case with those who are more on the IBLP side of things.

Ok. So Vision Forum just operates on different rules? I still think it's odd that a presbyterian would be treated so well by Douggie. Unless are you saying he's presbyterian too?

Unfortunately, I'm not so sure about that. He's a fan of the Chalcedon Foundation, which is Rushdoony's organization, on Facebook. I think it's safe to say that he's still a fan.

Yeh, I was wrong before, this interview is only a week old. He just posted it to his blog too. The picture is from three years ago, so I assumed it was an old post.

[tehgoobster]

Ok. So Vision Forum just operates on different rules? I still think it's odd that a presbyterian would be treated so well by Douggie. Unless are you saying he's presbyterian too?

Well, Vision Forum and IBLP are both parachurch organizations, so I'm not sure I'd say that they operate under different rules, per se, and that's because I don't think that there are any rules. One of the differences, however, is that IBLP seems more geared towards the IFB crowd. While concerned about making this nation "more Christian," IBLP seems to be more about one's personal relationship with God and "character training." VF, the inner circle of which consists of Calvinists, seems to be more about taking dominion. Rushdoony is considered the grandfather of Christian Reconstructionism (i.e., dominionism), and VF is a huge proponent of his works. Basically, Rushdoony taught that the civil laws in the Old Testament, including stoning gays, etc., should be the laws that govern American society. Along with other unsavory and potentially oppressive things, he apparently thought that slavery was A-OK as well.

ETA: I don't think Doug has much of a problem with Presbyterians. I'm not sure if he is a Reformed Baptist or a Presbyterian, but since both denominations are Calvinistic, I think there is quite a bit of common ground. The National Center for Family Integrated Churches, which is promoted by Doug and those in VF's inner circle, largely consists of Reformed Baptist and Presbyterian churches, IIRC.

[dawniecakes]

I swear I read something that Doug was a Presbyterian and remember it striking me as odd as I thought he was in with the fundie Baptists instead.

[Marian the Librarian]

I listened to this interview, too, MJB, and I agree -- the kid's imbibed a big dose o' Kool-Aid. It boggles the mind.

The "Ah the Lifers" feature this young man on their blog regularly. Any theories on what's going on there???

[justlurking]

I swear I read something that Doug was a Presbyterian and remember it striking me as odd as I thought he was in with the fundie Baptists instead.

I believe your right. I think it was either the Jen's Gems blog or True Womanhood site which talked about Boerne Christian Assembly's (Dougie's church) affiliation with the PCA organization (Presbyterian Churches of America).

I believe Voddie Baucham is (or was) Baptist. This came to light when he posted on his blog about his disagreement with the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention) and their "anti-Calvinistic" views:

web.me.com/voddieb/vbm/Blog/Entries/2008/11/12_The_SBC_and_Calvinism:__A_Personal_Perspective.html

[Austin]

Ok. So Vision Forum just operates on different rules? I still think it's odd that a presbyterian would be treated so well by Douggie. Unless are you saying he's presbyterian too.

Check out these Presbyterians: http://www.baylyblog.com/

PCA is a different stripe. Way different.

[emmiedahl]

Are all Presbyterian churches basically the same (like Roman Catholic) or are they all somewhat different with a variety of overseeing agencies (like Lutheran synods)?

We have a Presbyterian church in town and it is THE church to go to, as in it has all the money and the doctors/important people all attend. I would worry a bit if our entire city council and my doctor are all Calvinists, kwim? My doctor seems moderate. He's been our family doctor for a while, so I have kinda gotten a feel for how he thinks.

[tehgoobster]

We have a Presbyterian church in town and it is THE church to go to, as in it has all the money and the doctors/important people all attend. I would worry a bit if our entire city council and my doctor are all Calvinists, kwim? My doctor seems moderate. He's been our family doctor for a while, so I have kinda gotten a feel for how he thinks.

I've never been a Calvinist, and I've never been a big fan of Calvinism, but I don't think that Doug and VF represent the vast majority of Calvinists. There are liberal Calvinists, moderate Calvinists, and very conservative Calvinists. Doug and VF are at the extreme right on the spectrum. While many people in your town may be Calvinists, they probably aren't anywhere near the VF side of the spectrum. I hope they're not, at least! More than likely, they probably fall within mainstream Christianity.