Extremist Jews spit on "immodest" girl, stone another

[Patsy]

Been away for a while, so this thread is old news, but I wanted to say thank you to FaustianSlip for the insights :)

[Childless]

I've never supported Israel (mostly due to their treatment of the Palestinians). It doesn't surprise me that a country that would force children to live in squalid refugee camps simply because of their religion would ignore people spitting on children. After all, these are the same people that try and kill little Palestinian children walking to school and the country doesn't seem to give a shit about that either.

[Deleted03]

I've never supported Israel (mostly due to their treatment of the Palestinians). It doesn't surprise me that a country that would force children to live in squalid refugee camps simply because of their religion would ignore people spitting on children. After all, these are the same people that try and kill little Palestinian children walking to school and the country doesn't seem to give a shit about that either.

This. It does not surprise me that a state allowing a form of apartheid would allow further discrimination. Either you respect human rights and dignity or you don't. And when you don't nothing can tell where you'll draw the limit at.

I saw Angela Davis in conference, and she talked about it being so much horrible than Alabama in the 60s (fyi Angela Davis is a black feminist) and how much those roads and sidewalks for "muslims" were horrible, how the discrimination was bad, and how everything looked like a high security prison. you can't have no rights for some people, it always spills over to other groups.

[Peas n carrots]

...and things have gone to another level, one small group of people in Jerusalem (looks to be NK-affliliated) upset with the supposed oppression of Charedim have staged a protest dressing kids up in Holocaust prisoner uniforms - you can see pics up on VozIsNeias.

It's getting condemnation from even quite a few of the very right-wing types that were wishy washy and "yeah, but... but..." over the spitting. There's a big ol' thread on the mothers' forum about it.

Years ago there were some people who used Nazi imagery with regards to the army during the pullout from some settlements, and that was met with condemnation too - you just do that. So, could get interesting.

I'm obviously just reading about this on the internet from FAR outside but just as someone who has read about various of the participants over time just as out of interest, it seems to me that maybe things that need to come to a head and be discussed openly might get a chance, if there's anything at all good to come of all this maybe that would be it.

One of the linked articles says:

Secular girl attacked, stoned by haredi mob while waiting for a bus in Beit Shemesh. Haredim screamed: "‘Animal, you are not a person at all."

They called the girl an animal? Someone needs to point out to these guys that THIS is exactly how it started with the Holocaust...people treating Jews like animals without reprecussion led to the mass extermination of 2/3 of European Jewry.

[longskirts]

There was a flash mob dance protest about this in Bet Shemesh. Video is here:

[2xx1xy1JD]

There was a flash mob dance protest about this in Bet Shemesh. Video is here:

AWESOME!

If you look at the video, you can see that many of the girls and women dancing were Orthodox - just look for the skirts, and married women with hats. It's been bubbling for a while, but IMO this is the flashpoint for Modern Orthodoxy to stand up and say, "No, we aren't just a watered-down version of Haredi Judaism, we have our own values that are different from yours when it comes to gender issues, but which are just as valid." It's also been a wake-up call for all streams of Orthodoxy to state that we don't make super-modesty the ultimate measure of one's religious ranking - there are basic values like treating people decently that come first.

[2xx1xy1JD]

This. It does not surprise me that a state allowing a form of apartheid would allow further discrimination. Either you respect human rights and dignity or you don't. And when you don't nothing can tell where you'll draw the limit at.

I saw Angela Davis in conference, and she talked about it being so much horrible than Alabama in the 60s (fyi Angela Davis is a black feminist) and how much those roads and sidewalks for "muslims" were horrible, how the discrimination was bad, and how everything looked like a high security prison. you can't have no rights for some people, it always spills over to other groups.

1. Israelis aren't "ignoring" people spitting on children. It's been front page news for days, the lead item on the nightly newscasts, there have been massive demonstrations, and calls from politicians across the political spectrum, including the Prime Minister, condemning what was happening. As I said in my previous post, the amount of public attention on gender issues is absolutely unprecedented.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPoliti ... ?id=250873

2. Nobody's "trying" to kill Palestinian kids.

3. Israel's not forcing anyone to live in refugee camps and doesn't have control over the camps. The camps are operated by UNRWA, and many are either in other countries or in areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority. UNRWA is a United Nations agency that deals exclusively with Palestinians, and it uses a definition of refugee and has protocols for dealing with refugees which are different than those that apply to all other refugees. In no other conflict are the grandchildren or great-grandchildren of refugees still legally defined as refugees.

4. There are plenty of Muslims on the roads and sidewalks in Israel. However, as part of the Oslo Progress which granted the Palestinian Authority control over significant chunks of the West Bank, and as a result of the barrage of suicide bombings during the Second Intifada, access roads were built to connect areas under Israeli control and bypass areas under Palestinian Authority control. The roads that are under Israeli control can only be accessed from areas that are under Israeli control, although they can be used by anyone who is allowed to be in the Israeli controlled areas including Arabs. Israelis are not permitted into the Palestinian Authority areas. While the fences and separation have attracted criticism from both some Palestinians and Israelis on both the right and the left, they have also dramatically reduced attacks and brought stability. As a result, Palestinians in the West Bank have been experiencing a high rate of economic growth, including a real estate boom in Ramallah.

[Beeks]

1. Israelis aren't "ignoring" people spitting on children. It's been front page news for days, the lead item on the nightly newscasts, there have been massive demonstrations, and calls from politicians across the political spectrum, including the Prime Minister, condemning what was happening. As I said in my previous post, the amount of public attention on gender issues is absolutely unprecedented.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPoliti ... ?id=250873

2. Nobody's "trying" to kill Palestinian kids.

3. Israel's not forcing anyone to live in refugee camps and doesn't have control over the camps. The camps are operated by UNRWA, and many are either in other countries or in areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority. UNRWA is a United Nations agency that deals exclusively with Palestinians, and it uses a definition of refugee and has protocols for dealing with refugees which are different than those that apply to all other refugees. In no other conflict are the grandchildren or great-grandchildren of refugees still legally defined as refugees.

4. There are plenty of Muslims on the roads and sidewalks in Israel. However, as part of the Oslo Progress which granted the Palestinian Authority control over significant chunks of the West Bank, and as a result of the barrage of suicide bombings during the Second Intifada, access roads were built to connect areas under Israeli control and bypass areas under Palestinian Authority control. The roads that are under Israeli control can only be accessed from areas that are under Israeli control, although they can be used by anyone who is allowed to be in the Israeli controlled areas including Arabs. Israelis are not permitted into the Palestinian Authority areas. While the fences and separation have attracted criticism from both some Palestinians and Israelis on both the right and the left, they have also dramatically reduced attacks and brought stability. As a result, Palestinians in the West Bank have been experiencing a high rate of economic growth, including a real estate boom in Ramallah.

Thank you!

[celestial]

A great opinion piece about this topic by an Orthodox rabbi came out today in the NY Times.

IS it possible for a religious demand for modesty to be about anything other than men controlling women’s bodies? From recent events in Israel, it would certainly seem that it is not...

[Sarah]

Ugh, this whole situation really makes me feel ill. It's so beyond disturbing when people do things like this and truly believe that G-d would be HAPPY with their actions.