How vocal are you about your beliefs (or lack thereof)?

[latraviata]

Thankfully, I live in an ebul, librul country where it is decidedly uncool to wear your religion on your sleeve. I fit right in.

Same here.

Nobody gives a toss. Fortunately religion is absolutely no issue whatsoever.

[FlorenceHamilton]

I am from a liberal part of the country. Now I live in one of the most conservative and Christian parts of the country. I don't bring up religion or politics on my own. If asked, I tell people that I am Jewish. That seems to be acceptable to these folks, but also ends the conversation.

I do not get into details about my atheism or my politics. I do challange folks who make a point of telling me that they "only" follow Fox News. I tell them that I read from several News outlets, and also BBC and al Jazeera. I don't trust anybody to tell me they are "fair and balanced". I read the reporting from all sides and make my own decisions about fair and balanced. It actually gives people pause. They won't change their behavior, but the moment the message gets through is priceless.

[apple1]

(slightly off topic)

Aelar,

Those clothes are really beautiful. :)

[Austin]

Austin, what a shocking story! Sounds like you raised your kids brilliantly to think on their own and to stand on their principles. Society needs more of these people, not less. It's horrible to think of life as a country club where you're shut out if your face doesn't fit but I think that's how the people who picked on J see it and they like it :(

Hopefully all normal people would agree an 18 year old who had the guts and interest in politics J does should be encouraged not disrespected and sidelined. He does sound like a natural activist and a brave person.

US politics seem much more "raw" in this respect. After an argument, I asked some friends in America what would happen to me as a politically active socialist if I moved to where they live. They said "You would be beaten up. No one in town would speak to you. Only stay in a big city and even then, depends on the city." :shock:

It's so different in Scotland there aren't even words. If I tell most people my politics, at worst they think I'm a weirdo but sometimes they share reminicences of things like miners' strike, anti poll tax revolt, etc. More often now people of all ages say "Well done to you, the government are bastards".

J would fit in comfortably though he would get questions now and again along the lines of "Yir fae America, whit's this Obama oan aboot?" I can honestly say though no one would do worse than argue with him and that would probably be in a pub ;)

Please pass on my applause to J for standing up for what he believes in in the face of unpleasant consequences! It warms my heart no end to see people do that.

Thanks, that's great to hear, but probably giving us way too much credit. :D

As I mentioned, it was very difficult at the time to watch him lose/forfeit so much of what he had worked so hard for and know that my vocal opinions (not to mention getting sideways with the fundie loudmouth wife of his asst. band director) had played some part in that. I just have to say, though, that we got really great advice from a former school board member who was very well aware of the twin evils of band being a "sacred cow" and being steeped in fundamentalism because of the worldviews of the band directors at this [public] high school.

In the midst of being quite upset about the whole thing, I met this former board member for coffee and she challenged me to let go, let him do what he needed to do, and to understand that in the scheme of his life, this was a very small thing. She told me to forget about the "F" and how that would affect college (it didn't) or any related repercussions (there weren't any post-high-school). She advised me to forget the upcoming band competition to Arizona for which we had already paid for him, with the money not being refundable (this wasn't a huge consideration, but I won't lie and say it didn't matter at all).

She advised that our unwavering support was what he needed to give him the safety net to allow him to follow his convictions, and not to endeavor to try to make everything better for him. She totally agreed it was completely wrong and probably illegal, and blatantly so, but only a few people had stood up to this little fiefdom over the years, and people needed to see more students saying, "enough!", and "I don't care what you take from me or how you intend to make me pay" with their families standing behind them.

And we attempted to do all of that. We attended the meetings with him, but did not speak. J was in a position of privilege in a number of ways, frankly, and this fact alone (which is unfortunate) made his case have more of an impact. In the beginning, there was little support in the community at large (did I mention these band directors are basically local heroes?), and people wrote some really nasty things on a community bulletin board, to which we never responded. But as time has gone by, more and more people have contacted J on facebook or emailed his dad or me to share their own stories of how they or their children suffered under these band directors over the years, too.

J is a regular young guy with some special gifts and irritating flaws, just like most guys his age. He is blessed with the courage of his convictions and always has been, but he also realizes is to some extent, that is made easier by the safety net of a supportive family. We are lucky to have been able to provide that.

Funny that I'm posting about this now, as we had not mentioned it for a long time within the family, and when we were on vacation last week, it came up over the firepit one night and we talked about it all again for at least an hour. It was interesting to hear his younger brothers' perspectives on how it affected them, but that's another story. :)

[hermione1975]

I believe that actions speak louder then words. I do not feel the need to spew Religious propaganda to others. People will be more receptive of religion if you let your actions (and not your tongue)reflect your beliefs.

[Ralar]

I'm considering breaking up with my almost-fiancee (he's already disussed marriage with my father -- not because we need permission, rather because my father was offended that my ex-husband never spoke to my parents about it before proposing). I had a huge fight with his self-hating Jewish parents last weekend. All of us are Jewish, but his parents are anti-semites and bigots. His parents live 5 minutes from him and he is very close with his mother. I'm not sure I want to be a part of that family.

FWIW, I consider myself an American Jew, not a Jewish American. No matter where I live or what country I am a citizen of, I will always be a Jew. Not to say I am not an American or I'm unpatriotic, bu I am a Jew first and foremost. I'd say I'm pretty vocal about my beliefs!

edited: because I can't type!

[JesusFightClub]

Austin, it's really important to share stories like that as well because it encourages other people to stand up when they must do.

our unwavering support was what he needed to give him the safety net to allow him to follow his convictions, and not to endeavor to try to make everything better for him.

He would be prouder afterwards that he took consequences standing up for what he believed in. Some things are dead easy to stand up for or just to say. For example anyone can say "I believe Hitler was an evil person" and unless they're doing that in the middle of a Neo Nazi meeting, they're probably going to be fine. But when you believe something strongly but know the consequences are going to be highly unpleasant...

Well, thinking about J made me think of something slightly related. Tomorrow I will be on strike:

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/866447-pcs-union-votes-to-strike-in-750-000-walkout-of-teachers-and-civil-servants

and on the picket line. One thing I think sometimes about people who cross the line is "So now you know your exact value". That person was prepared to go against their beliefs for a price. Might be £60 per day, £600 per day or £6000 per day (ok, the last two would be slightly unlikely in my union. :) ) But from then on, if anyone ever says "What can you be bought for" to a scab, they can name a precise figure. Must be great to be them. :roll:

J can now say that when tested he wouldn't be bought off. Or he wouldn't make Faust's deal. That might sound a bit OTT but I think in a lot of things you can be flexible...however in some things there can't be negotiation. A good lesson to learn young.

What did his younger brothers feel about it?

[Austin]

Austin, it's really important to share stories like that as well because it encourages other people to stand up when they must do.

He would be prouder afterwards that he took consequences standing up for what he believed in. Some things are dead easy to stand up for or just to say. For example anyone can say "I believe Hitler was an evil person" and unless they're doing that in the middle of a Neo Nazi meeting, they're probably going to be fine. But when you believe something strongly but know the consequences are going to be highly unpleasant...

Well, thinking about J made me think of something slightly related. Tomorrow I will be on strike:

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/866447-pcs-union-votes-to-strike-in-750-000-walkout-of-teachers-and-civil-servants

and on the picket line. One thing I think sometimes about people who cross the line is "So now you know your exact value". That person was prepared to go against their beliefs for a price. Might be £60 per day, £600 per day or £6000 per day (ok, the last two would be slightly unlikely in my union. :) ) But from then on, if anyone ever says "What can you be bought for" to a scab, they can name a precise figure. Must be great to be them. :roll:

J can now say that when tested he wouldn't be bought off. Or he wouldn't make Faust's deal. That might sound a bit OTT but I think in a lot of things you can be flexible...however in some things there can't be negotiation. A good lesson to learn young.

What did his younger brothers feel about it?

I'm so sorry about your strike situation. What a stressful time! Several years ago, my husband's (also a teacher) union's contract negotiations seemed hopelessly deadlocked and strike was on the table and I certainly recall the sleepless nights. I hope it can be resolved quickly and that the scabs are the ones who can't sleep at night.

Teachers and other collective bargaining members in many states here in the USA are losing their right to strike, or even effectively negotiate. It's a real travesty, and it's happening.

As far as the younger brothers, our twins, it was rather mixed. The biggest fallout was that one of them, JP, has real musical talent, the sort which his older brother might have considered giving a limb for before all this went down. Because of all that happened, JP ended his band and concert music career in eighth grade. He refused to march or play in concert or symphonic band for these directors. I understood, and we backed his decision completely, but I thought it was a real shame. He does occasionally still play in some community and church events, but he should have had a great run in high school. He was first chair material, squad leader material.

Because of relatively few opportunities to play now, he has kind of put it away mostly, but I am hoping that when he's a bit older, perhaps in college, he'll pick it up again. He's not shedding any tears over it any more, as life is pretty full.

The other brother, K, pretty much had decided he didn't want to continue music in high school, so although he would have never wished that on J, it kind of settled the matter for him.

[Beeks]

I'm considering breaking up with my almost-fiancee (he's already disussed marriage with my father -- not because we need permission, rather because my father was offended that my ex-husband never spoke to my parents about it before proposing). I had a huge fight with his self-hating Jewish parents last weekend. All of us are Jewish, but his parents are anti-semites and bigots. His parents live 5 minutes from him and he is very close with his mother. I'm not sure I want to be a part of that family.

FWIW, I consider myself an American Jew, not a Jewish American. No matter where I live or what country I am a citizen of, I will always be a Jew. Not to say I am not an American or I'm unpatriotic, bu I am a Jew first and foremost. I'd say I'm pretty vocal about my beliefs!

edited: because I can't type!

That is really hard...I'm sorry you're going through that. I do think you're smart to take the family into account though. My husband's family is insane (literally, some of them) and he's not close to them at ALL but I have a really difficult time the few times a year we have to see them. We got engaged only a few months after we met, and really my husband is very lucky because if I'd known his family better I might have run screaming for the hills.

What kind of stuff did his parents say? Was it something specifically against you, or Israel or just Jews in general....? I'm honestly just curious. I've met a few self-hating Jews in my life and a lot of times I think it's a defense mechanism.

[raineymott]

Regarding the OP...I don't really have much in the way of beliefs right now. xD And I've never been very vocal about what I believe, unless I'm on a forum and a topic comes up that I discuss. I'm trying to get out of my comfort zones in regards to some beliefs though...like I'm finally over the whole gay-is-bad thing, and I support the right for gay people (or whatever the proper term is) to get married...but most of the people on my friends list are fairly conservative (my brother still is more conservative than me too) and I don't want them freaking out on me. lol I'm tired of that sort of thing.

Umm anyways...

[JesusFightClub]

Aaargh! I can't work out nested quotes yet :)

Austin, I feel for you and your husband and I'm sorry you had such a hard time! For me, this is the fifth or sixth (I lost count) time I've been on strike in my working life. I'm a shop steward, I stand on the picket line. I know it's a huge burden on everyone who stays out, it is on me too. I lose the day's wages and I earn not very much so it's a couple of days next month I don't eat. But it must be done.

Because of all that happened, JP ended his band and concert music career in eighth grade. He refused to march or play in concert or symphonic band for these directors

JP should also be proud of himself! Can he pick these things up at uni?

[Austin]

JP should also be proud of himself! Can he pick these things up at uni?

Oh, sure! Absolutely. I assume if he has an interest, he'll do that. Plenty of opportunity still abounds for him, I'm sure.

[lilwriter85]

I'm an atheist. But a majority of my family and relatives are Catholic. About five of my relatives are Protestants. Not all of my relatives know that I'm an atheist. I get along well with ones who don't know but we rarely talk about religion.