lolFacebook

[ladypuglover]

I referred to this post awhile ago but didn't link the actual post. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... e=1&ref=nf

Again, it's the claim that childbirth is "less dangerous" than abortion" that leaves me smh.

I might be inclined to defriend her as we're barely even acquaintances but she posts twice as much cute kitty stuff as she does the religious stuff and I can't really get enough of cute kitties. I think it might be a conspiracy.

ngsmFRdbq_k

OMG!!1! Cute kitty!!1! :shock:

CUTE KITTY!

umm.. I'm ok now. Sometimes my squee gets control of me. :oops:

[Mompom]

I saw one yesterday that said, "I am thankful for my husband's broken arm!" She was attempting to be thankful in all circumstances, but somehow I don't get the idea being thankful the pain of another was the idea behind that. I guess be thankful for your OWN broken arm, but really? Your husband's? If freaked me out and I wanted to ask her if she was thankful for people who were starving or car accident victims too. :shock:

[lilwriter85]

I have a few fundie lite friends on FB. They post Bible verses here and there, but I don't think any of them would post things like emmie's friend.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

I have fundie-lite Catholic friends. And they drive me nucking futs.

This was from yesterday. This friend works for one of the Koch brothers really radically conservative organization that seeks to promote anti-tax laws and all manner of conservative things. They had a convention in DC, and the #Occupy people were storming the convention center.

Friend: Protesters protest convention defending their freedom to protest: classic.

Me: OWS is kind of a weird thing, and I'm not sure they even know exactly what they're protesting or what their goals are. Whatever it is, it's idiotic to be blocking entrances/exits and the roadways. However, I fail to see how the Koch brothers or Americans for Prosperity was doing anything at the convention that was "defending their freedom to protest." It's simply an anti-tax convention, which has no beneficial or detrimental effect on the freedom of speech.

Friend: We're fans of the Constitution too. And the First Amendment. :)

Me: Very true. However, it's misleading to say that it was a convention that included information about defending the freedom of speech. Perhaps the OWS protesters will actually protest a convention of the sort in the future. Your headline would be epic.

Friend: well, Defending the American Dream does includes defending free speech (via the First Amendment). Look us up!

That was so full of WTF I don't even... I didn't reply, but I was tempted to say something about, so all PACs and political campaigns are automatically defending our right of free speech? Then wouldn't that mean Obama's defending free speech? (She thinks Obama's of the devil.)

Another time, an evangelical in-law relative was posting about Obama being of the Devil and that he's OMG a muslim!!!11! so I cited several articles that talked about Obama's faith, and made a joke about him being a secret Episcopalian. Then her friend got on my case and started taking the discussion off topic and started trying to "save" me because I'm Catholic. :shock:

I need to do some digging, but a while back there was an epic debate between me and a fundie-lite Catholic friend about condoms. She claimed condoms were murder.

[Paisy]

I need to do some digging, but a while back there was an epic debate between me and a fundie-lite Catholic friend about condoms. She claimed condoms were murder.

That's priceless.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

Okay, found it! Love FB's feature of "see friendship," as that saved me a ton of time scrolling through all the stuff I post.

I linked to this article http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/09/28 ... reloaded=1 saying that "Geez. Better condoms than abortion, is all I can say. "

Friend: Condoms are abortion.

Me:Scientifically speaking, they are not. It prevents the sperm from reaching the egg, preventing life from being created in the first place. It is when sperm and the egg fuses when new DNA is formed, and when a unique human life begins.

Other methods of contraception can cause abortion, but condoms aren't one of them.

The question is whether condom use is moral is more in the field of sexual sin, not of killing. The Church teaches that it is immoral, just as killing another person is immoral, but it is better for the couple to take the sin upon themselves by using condoms than it is for them to commit the greater sin of deciding to end a tiny, but growing, life.

Friend: well in a sense. its best to have God decide and not step in to try and prevent a pregnancy. God gave woman an awesome body and cycle, along with the couples will power for abstaining.

Me:What other sense would there be? Even among the pro-life websites I haven't seen the assertion that condoms cause abortions. It prevents a life from forming, yes, much in the same way NFP does, whereas the former is seen as morally wrong by our Church, and the latter is encouraged. Interestingly, NFP has about the same efficacy rate as condoms.

Friend: I disagree with the nfp/condom rate. And disagree with condoms in general.

Me:Indeed. It is better for couples to use NFP. That wasn't the issue though when I stated that condoms are better than abortion--I was comparing the morality of both on their own, and not comparing them with NFP.

My numbers from the NFP/condom rate comes from Dr. Hilgers' study when comparing the Creighton Model with condoms.

And indeed, condom use is immoral. But not everyone is Catholic ;)

Friend: My post was a delay, sorry. I don't believe the nfp/condom rate and do not agree with condoms. And I do believe that contraceptives have led to the increase of abortion.

Understand. Haha. We can just delete our posts. I didn't even read your article so I was not in position to speak.

(So NOW she read the article? And I know the conservative Catholic friend's mother, the one who told me to stop swearing, read this whole thing and probably thinks I'm a false Catholic, because she likes the whole "condoms increase abortion rate" argument. WTF? She then tried to refer me to a NFP book for the statistics, going off of Vicki Thorn or whatever as a citation. Seriously, citing a NFP book isn't quite authoritative enough when you're looking to cite about scientific articles. You need to cite the ORIGINAL sources, dig and find the scientific journal articles and studies for you to have any chance of successfully arguing your side. )

I finished off with a rant about:

Indeed, the oral contraceptives can cause abortion--and the rates vary depending on the kind. Like the mini-pill, the progesterone only kind, is only about 80% effective at preventing pregnancy, and becaus...e it doesn't suppress ovulation (estrogen does that) it's far more likely to allow an embryo to form only for it to fail to implant on the uterine walls, which are really thin thanks to the progesterone. The combination oral contraceptives with both estrogen and progesterone are more able to prevent conception by suppressing ovulation, but there's still that small chance of accidental abortion that is morally troubling for some people.

And yes, abstinence works for couples who are BOTH committed to trying to abstain. Unfortunately, like you said, there are a lot of young people who aren't educated enough on all the options and one or two times of getting "carried away" can easily end up with pregnancy. For those people whose faith (or personal morals for those who are not religious) don't have qualms about condoms, I definitely would rather they use it and prevent pregnancy, than use the pills. And I SO much prefer people use condoms rather than struggle with decisions about abortion.

So, yeah, I've had the same sort of observations, lol. The whole purity festivals and rings and promises tend to backfire, a recent study has found. It's just a small study, but sociologists found out that teenagers who sign purity statements and wear purity rings and all that jazz have sex as often as other teens...so basically societal pressure doesn't work. Instead the teens are more likely to think about sex simply because it is so forbidden, and tend to be slightly more likely to get carried away. But that's a whole 'nother rant, lol.

[AnnoDomini]

Someone I know posted this bit on Halloween (in response to someone else):

If people weren't trying to eradicate Christianity, I would be worried. So I'm not fussed by the whole Happy Holidays thing, which in the war against Christianity, is like a tiny benevolent tumor in the midst of a cancerous attack.

[Paisy]

Someone I know posted this bit on Halloween (in response to someone else):

If people weren't trying to eradicate Christianity, I would be worried. So I'm not fussed by the whole Happy Holidays thing, which in the war against Christianity, is like a tiny benevolent tumor in the midst of a cancerous attack.

A benevolent tumor??? Does it give out treats?

[quinoa]

Just FYI:

Standard modern birth control pills act only through suppressing ovulation, not through preventing implantation. This is true also for progestin-only pills. No evidence has ever been scientifically presented to indicate that implantation is affected.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10561657

OB/GYNs will typically tell you that the miscarriage rate is the same for women on hormonal contraception as for those not. The difference is that it's easy for women who were taking birth control to identify a factor that allows them to blame themselves.

In this sense a condom is no different than a birth control pill, and by logic you should oppose or accept them both equally (from the perspective of potential conception; obviously there are side effects for the woman and for the enjoyability of sex for a couple that render these two unequal in terms of acceptability of birth control.)

The morning after pill also only delays ovulation. It does not interfere with a pregnancy once an egg is fertilized (or even released)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20933113

[lilwriter85]

I'm looking at my FB and my fundie lite cousin's wife is posted a pro-life poem.

[emmiedahl]

From Tea Party organizer friend's page:

Going to OCCUPY a gun range instead of Wall-street ;)

THE WHOLE Sharia law being installed in LIBYA ISSUE Shows exactly why we need a leader like RON PAUL! PROTECT OUR OWN BORDERS WE SHOULD NOT BE THE WOLD'S POLICEMAN!

[Freed]

I posted a status questioning why being gay was such a big deal, and saying that I felt God was more upset by who we hate than who we love. In response, I got a lot of agreement from my friends (most of them are the creative, liberal types). Up until my godmother (who I've always adored) sent me a PM, telling me to look in the Bible for myself, and saying that being gay was a perversion and an abomination. Ugh, all respect totally lost after that discussion. We don't talk anymore, and if it wouldn't cause a huge ruckus, I'd unfriend her. My fundie-lite mom and her pastors (the creepy ones who kept inviting me to lunch) are perma-banned from my FB.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

Just FYI:

Standard modern birth control pills act only through suppressing ovulation, not through preventing implantation. This is true also for progestin-only pills. No evidence has ever been scientifically presented to indicate that implantation is affected.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10561657

OB/GYNs will typically tell you that the miscarriage rate is the same for women on hormonal contraception as for those not. The difference is that it's easy for women who were taking birth control to identify a factor that allows them to blame themselves.

In this sense a condom is no different than a birth control pill, and by logic you should oppose or accept them both equally (from the perspective of potential conception; obviously there are side effects for the woman and for the enjoyability of sex for a couple that render these two unequal in terms of acceptability of birth control.)

The morning after pill also only delays ovulation. It does not interfere with a pregnancy once an egg is fertilized (or even released)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20933113

That's what I've been reading more and more about, so thanks for the links! I took classes on two types of NFP and taught myself a third, and one type, the Couple to Couple League, keeps putting out a lot of BS based on fearmongering. I think you're right, the BCP is a very easy thing to blame when women have miscarriages, and it's kind of a scapegoat among my fundie Catholic friends when talking about the "lack of respect for life" in culture, meaning, all the blame for abortions and child abuse can be placed on the Pill. :roll:

It's one thing to encourage NFP as just that, a natural method of family planning. It's another to scare/guilt people into it by spreading misinformation. Thankfully the other methods of NFP I learned aren't too bad about misinformation. It's just the CCL that drives me nucking futs.

Hmm, I wonder what would happen if I posted those links on my Facebook? :think: :lol:

[raineymott]

Hmm, I wonder what would happen if I posted those links on my Facebook? :think: :lol:

Yeah I'm considering it too :D

[Constance Vigilance]

10-30% of all human conceptions have a serious chromosomal problem which is incompatible with life and causes them to spontaneously abort. Other genetic defects cause additional miscarriages, and then with some the mother's biochemistry is compatible with the foetus's, etc (as well as the ones where no one knows what happened).

It makes me so angry when people try to make women feel guilty about a miscarriage. This isn't the Dark Ages ffs.

[Terrie]

No fundies, just Tea Party conservatives. I've started putting more and more liberal stuff on my page. The TPers don't dare defriend me -- we're related. :)

[Paisy]

10-30% of all human conceptions have a serious chromosomal problem which is incompatible with life and causes them to spontaneously abort.

It's way more than that actually. In IVF on average about one in four fertilized eggs will make it to blastocyst (five days), and of those only about half will implant and develop a heartbeat, and of those about 75% will make it to the second trimester. The bulk of these losses are attributed to chromosomal abnormality. (There is some attrition associated with the IVF process but technology has advanced pretty far so it's not very much.) It's a wonder any of us are here at all!

[Guest Anonymous]

Ok, just came from my facebook. A post from a friend of mine just read:

"uh oh, just came from the planetarium and they were going into evolution! Gonna have some explaining to do on the way home".

Another friend replies: "that's why I am planning a trip with the kids to the creation museum".

:roll:

[raineymott]

"Getting ready to make Chocolate Chip cookies with 3 absolutely amazing, completely forgiven, washed in HIS blood, young people. I am so very blessed!"

o.O

[Terrie]

I recommend "liking" George Takei's Facebook page as an antidote for these things. The man is very funny and very thoughtful. A recent favorite declared "Science is not a liberal conspiracy."

[Lainey]

Ok, just came from my facebook. A post from a friend of mine just read:

"uh oh, just came from the planetarium and they were going into evolution! Gonna have some explaining to do on the way home".

Another friend replies: "that's why I am planning a trip with the kids to the creation museum".

:roll:

Argh, shit like this majorly pisses me off. :evil:

[Nomorearrows]

"Getting ready to make Chocolate Chip cookies with 3 absolutely amazing, completely forgiven, washed in HIS blood, young people. I am so very blessed!"

:lol:

[Lillian]

Just realised I have two fb friends who 'like' The Rebelution (or however you spell it)...might have to do some culling :?

[StarrieEyedKat]

I've discovered that posting articles, quotes and insights that I've found here at FJ have helped me weed out who I do and don't want to be friends with on FB.

Thanks everyone! :clap:

[kaetrin]

My mother in law regularly posts articles from Generation Cedar, quotes from the Wise Woman and the Time Warp Wife, and "likes" No Greater Joy. I wish it were funny.

The one thing that was funny is that she used to quote people without indicating that she was quoting, but it didn't sound quite like her normal language to me, so I asked her if she wrote or borrowed the statuses, trying very hard to sound noncommittal about the subject matter. She said something like "Oh, would it impress you if I wrote them?" Um, no. Sorry.