How do they know.... What is God's Will?

[annalena]

so this has been bothering me for a while religion-wise. Apparently, there's God's way for your life, and then, there are wrong decisions that you can make. Also, Satan has a hand in this and is trying to tempt you to leave God's waqy by offering awesome but forbidden things like premarital sex with hot girls (I'm assuming).

So what I've been wondering about. If something doesn't work out the way you want- you don't get the job you want, you don't get into the college you want, you make whatever choice .... how do you figure out if God has set an entire different way for you or if Satan is trying to trick you to leave your God-designed way and you're actually supposed to be there?

[Brainsample]

so this has been bothering me for a while religion-wise. Apparently, there's God's way for your life, and then, there are wrong decisions that you can make. Also, Satan has a hand in this and is trying to tempt you to leave God's waqy by offering awesome but forbidden things like premarital sex with hot girls (I'm assuming).

So what I've been wondering about. If something doesn't work out the way you want- you don't get the job you want, you don't get into the college you want, you make whatever choice .... how do you figure out if God has set an entire different way for you or if Satan is trying to trick you to leave your God-designed way and you're actually supposed to be there?

I'm assuming that you're asking about the fundie sense of things?

This is a discussion where your position and understanding of human agency and God's sovereignty makes a big difference. I've lived from a position of many perspectives.

There are things that we know plainly and without question, and some things we only know in the general sense. We shouldn't kill, for example. That's pretty obvious. But other things are not as specific.

In Christianity, you're given the Judeo-Christian principle which is conveyed first and most objectively by the written word as found in the Bible. But that is not sufficient to fulfill the law. When you become regenerated spiritually and born again through faith in Christ, essentially, you're given spiritual insight and discernment through the Holy Spirit, a discernment ability that is not available to people who aren't regenerate. Add to that the influence of circumstances, and God uses circumstances and other people in the community to communicate to you as well.

To the principles in the Bible, you add the guidance of the Holy Spirit which presumably convicts you about right and wrong through a divinely sensitized conscience, and then your circumstances will also speak to you. That still doesn't give you a to do list. And that is where you meet self-trust and faith. Hebrews says that without faith it is impossible to please God and it is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. There is a "knowing" that stands up to doubt, and Scripture says that this is given to man by God as well. Following God's will through choosing is a single event, but it is part of the process of growing in faith through experience. (I like to think of a toddler who is learning to walk. After awhile, you get the hang of it, but you still stumble, even when you're an adult.)

There's a kind of organic, holistic thing that happens in that process of trust, faith, and action that causes one to grow and to develop in faith which reinforces relationship and trust in God. When you grown in that knowledge and get experience, you learn that God is faithful of your trust and your faith, and that is what helps you transcend the stuff that doesn't make sense. It's part of the causality that you develop which helps you make sense of the world and find meaning in life and living. There's a greater plan of a greater being who helps us develop, all while we only get to see the back side of the overall tapestry that the being weaves, often making no sense to us.

So how do you figure out how to not mess up and who you're following? Ultimately, in this life, you never really do, but you gain experience, just like anything else that you learn and practice. You get better and better at it, and as the thinking goes, you become more and more conformed into that ideal every day.

Choices always mean risk, and you get better at them, but everyone is somewhat vulnerable to error always. Competency and experience just decrease the likelihood that you're going to get negative results. But there are no guarantees. Faith is always required. But after a little practice, the system becomes self-reinforcing.

[browngrl]

Here is my atheist take: You make your choices and you take your chances. Sometimes things will work out. Sometimes they won't. Sometimes you will initially think that something worked out/did not work out and later you will find it was the opposite. Oh and also this: Shit happens.

[annalena]

Umm yes, I was asking about fundies, sorry, should have made that clearer. gotta run will be back...

[AnnoDomini]

I"m pretty sure that in fundies' eyes, questions like that are thoughts from Satan.

[fundiefan]

God's way is the way the fundie wants to go, always. If the fundie doesn't want to do something or think something or feel or believe or anything else, then it's from the debil. Otherwise, and particularly when they get exactly what they want, it's all god.

[browngrl]

Umm yes, I was asking about fundies, sorry, should have made that clearer. gotta run will be back...

sorry, my mistake :oops:

[gardenvarietycitizen]

God's way is the way the fundie wants to go, always. If the fundie doesn't want to do something or think something or feel or believe or anything else, then it's from the debil. Otherwise, and particularly when they get exactly what they want, it's all god.

Agreed. This is pretty much my take on it too (from my non-religious snarking viewpoint).

Everyone writes a story about their life, interprets events into a coherent whole narrative. That narrative might change over time as new data comes in, hindsight is acquired, or ambitions change. All people do this, usually making their narrative sympathetic to their own cause. People always think they're on the right side.

In the fundie case, then (specifically the fundie blogger case), it's "I'm doing what God wants, and see, I am blessed" when anything goes right, and "But Satan is trying to stop me and my righteous cause" when obstacles come up - if things are going well in life. In some cases where they want to pimp their conversion stories they will happily talk about being controlled by Satan or under his influence (in the past tense, always).

[Kitten]

how do you figure out if God has set an entire different way for you or if Satan is trying to trick you to leave your God-designed way and you're actually supposed to be there?

Basically, they justify whatever happens in their lives in whatever way suits them. Got that job you wanted? God loves you and rewards your faithfulness! Didn't get that job you wanted? God has a different (ALWAYS better) plan for your life! Or, God is punishing you for coveting the job. Or, Satan is working against you, and you need to get to church RIGHT NOW and rededicate yourself to God. Pick one of the above.

That's the beauty of religion - you can spin any event any way you want. Just pick the interpretation that best suits your preferences and desires and run with it. Everything under the sun in human history has been justified in the name of religion, one way or the other.

[doggie]

these descriptions pretty much cover most of peoples beliefs. Even if there is a god we all create god in our image. we see god as we want him/her/it to be and we think god agrees with our way of thinking and he has our backs. So far I have not seen a fundy say god told them they are dumbshits and need to start doing things for themselves.

[O Latin]

I'm just taking a guess, here.

I would imagine that when something just doesn't go your way (like you don't get a job you wanted) that would be interpreted as God having a different path for you in life. Whereas if you're tempted to do things you know are wrong, like premarital sex, that's Satan trying to tempt you.

That's my attempt to see if from a fundie-ish view. I don't personally believe in Satan.

[annalena]

I"m pretty sure that in fundies' eyes, questions like that are thoughts from Satan.

Haha, yes. Well I'm the devil's anyway! :twisted: As an atheist/agnostic...impure before marriage...getting an education...working...honestly, I think all hope is lost with me :violin:

God's way is the way the fundie wants to go, always. If the fundie doesn't want to do something or think something or feel or believe or anything else, then it's from the debil. Otherwise, and particularly when they get exactly what they want, it's all god.

That is an interesting take. Makes sense...somehow. But what about all those poor teenage boys who just want to make out with a girl?

[annalena]

Basically, they justify whatever happens in their lives in whatever way suits them. Got that job you wanted? God loves you and rewards your faithfulness! Didn't get that job you wanted? God has a different (ALWAYS better) plan for your life! Or, God is punishing you for coveting the job. Or, Satan is working against you, and you need to get to church RIGHT NOW and rededicate yourself to God. Pick one of the above.

That's the beauty of religion - you can spin any event any way you want. Just pick the interpretation that best suits your preferences and desires and run with it. Everything under the sun in human history has been justified in the name of religion, one way or the other.

That's exactly what bothers me about religion.

[Patsy]

so this has been bothering me for a while religion-wise. Apparently, there's God's way for your life, and then, there are wrong decisions that you can make. Also, Satan has a hand in this and is trying to tempt you to leave God's waqy by offering awesome but forbidden things like premarital sex with hot girls (I'm assuming).

So what I've been wondering about. If something doesn't work out the way you want- you don't get the job you want, you don't get into the college you want, you make whatever choice .... how do you figure out if God has set an entire different way for you or if Satan is trying to trick you to leave your God-designed way and you're actually supposed to be there?

This is something that bothers me a lot. "Uriah broke down again! I guess Satan doesn't want us to preach in Tinkytownsvilleton!" vs "We can't afford vegetables anymore, thank you God for your wisdom in choosing not to let us have vegetables!"

I have no insight for you.

[annalena]

I'm just taking a guess, here.

I would imagine that when something just doesn't go your way (like you don't get a job you wanted) that would be interpreted as God having a different path for you in life. Whereas if you're tempted to do things you know are wrong, like premarital sex, that's Satan trying to tempt you.

That's my attempt to see if from a fundie-ish view. I don't personally believe in Satan.

i would rephrase that as- when you're tempted to do things you've been taught are wrong. or you're assuming are wrong.

premarital sex is not wrong, in my opinion.

[annalena]

This is something that bothers me a lot. "Uriah broke down again! I guess Satan doesn't want us to preach in Tinkytownsvilleton!" vs "We can't afford vegetables anymore, thank you God for your wisdom in choosing not to let us have vegetables!"

I have no insight for you.

Yes, exactly. So how do you know if it was Satan who let Uriah break down, and is trying to prevent you from going to wherever, where you'd really supposed to be in God's opinion, and should try your best to get there, or if it was God, who really DOES not want you to go there?!

Another aspect I can't quite figure out is how God has set out the master plan for all mankind, which apparently can't be messed up, but then again, you're responsible for your choices. Or how praying even works if it is already set out what's going to happen??

Uuuhhhmmm...religion. :angry-tappingfoot:

[O Latin]

i would rephrase that as- when you're tempted to do things you've been taught are wrong. or you're assuming are wrong.

premarital sex is not wrong, in my opinion.

Right. I was just trying to put it how a fundie might think of it. Fundies know those things are wrong. ;)

[annalena]

Right. I was just trying to put it how a fundie might think of it. Fundies know those things are wrong. ;)

Because they just are, uum, what's the word? Right . SAVED.

[Brainsample]

Did the response that I wrote pertain to more balanced Christians, and the question was about the fringe wack jobs?

[annalena]

I'm sorry, I skimmed all the answers first and wanted to read yours later.. which I never did. Shame on me! Will do now.

[Kitten]

Harold Camping - the perfect example of religious justification...

Why didn't Christ return on Oct. 21? It seems embarrassing for Family Radio. But God was in charge of everything. We came to that conclusion after quite careful study of the Bible. He allowed everything to happen the way it did without correction. He could have stopped everything if He had wanted to.

See how easy it is? Convinced hundreds/thousands of people to give all their worldly goods to you by claiming to know the exact date the world would end? And the world didn't end? "Whoopsie! God changed his mind! Soooo sorry! Too bad about losing your house, your job, all your savings! But you'll need to talk to God about getting any of it back."

[annalena]

I'm assuming that you're asking about the fundie sense of things?

This is a discussion where your position and understanding of human agency and God's sovereignty makes a big difference. I've lived from a position of many perspectives.

There are things that we know plainly and without question, and some things we only know in the general sense. We shouldn't kill, for example. That's pretty obvious. But other things are not as specific.

In Christianity, you're given the Judeo-Christian principle which is conveyed first and most objectively by the written word as found in the Bible. But that is not sufficient to fulfill the law. When you become regenerated spiritually and born again through faith in Christ, essentially, you're given spiritual insight and discernment through the Holy Spirit, a discernment ability that is not available to people who aren't regenerate. Add to that the influence of circumstances, and God uses circumstances and other people in the community to communicate to you as well.

To the principles in the Bible, you add the guidance of the Holy Spirit which presumably convicts you about right and wrong through a divinely sensitized conscience, and then your circumstances will also speak to you. That still doesn't give you a to do list. And that is where you meet self-trust and faith. Hebrews says that without faith it is impossible to please God and it is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. There is a "knowing" that stands up to doubt, and Scripture says that this is given to man by God as well. Following God's will through choosing is a single event, but it is part of the process of growing in faith through experience. (I like to think of a toddler who is learning to walk. After awhile, you get the hang of it, but you still stumble, even when you're an adult.)

There's a kind of organic, holistic thing that happens in that process of trust, faith, and action that causes one to grow and to develop in faith which reinforces relationship and trust in God. When you grown in that knowledge and get experience, you learn that God is faithful of your trust and your faith, and that is what helps you transcend the stuff that doesn't make sense. It's part of the causality that you develop which helps you make sense of the world and find meaning in life and living. There's a greater plan of a greater being who helps us develop, all while we only get to see the back side of the overall tapestry that the being weaves, often making no sense to us.

So how do you figure out how to not mess up and who you're following? Ultimately, in this life, you never really do, but you gain experience, just like anything else that you learn and practice. You get better and better at it, and as the thinking goes, you become more and more conformed into that ideal every day.

Choices always mean risk, and you get better at them, but everyone is somewhat vulnerable to error always. Competency and experience just decrease the likelihood that you're going to get negative results. But there are no guarantees. Faith is always required. But after a little practice, the system becomes self-reinforcing.

So, I finally got to read this. Question. How do you know when God is talking to you through people and who he chooses?I think it's somewhat dangerous to tell kids God speaks to them through teachers and parents (I've read this before) because it opens doors to abuse.

[SouthCarolinaGirl79]

I'll take a swing at this from a CF's view point since I am one.

I've always believed that God has a plan for my life and for everyone's too. I don't think that God cares too much about the minor details of my life, but I think that it is possible to see God's hand guiding major events in my life. When bad things happen or when things aren't going the way I want them to go, most of the time I feel that it is time to be still and listen for God's voice and try to see if He is trying to send me a wake-up call to get me back on his path. This is what Romans 8:28 teaches: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Case in point, last year this time my husband developed a health issue that only seemed to be a problem at his work place. He would experience panic attacks/full body cramps only at work. He sought medical help and was in and out of work for months trying to get this straightened out. His boss tried to work with him at first but then it became clear they were going to fire him if he didn't solve his health problem and rightfully so. I'm a STAHM, so I was stressing tremendously. We both prayed for him to keep his job, but he was fired. In a few weeks, he was hired by a different company and has since doubled his salary and has hours better suited to our family. His job loss turned out to be a blessing! All of his health problems disappeared. We feel this episode was God's way to telling him he was not where he should have been.

There was another time in our marriage where we were trying to live in a different city instead of our home town. Although we both felt we should move home, we were determined to make it work in this new city. Serveral smaller events happened that I feel were little wake up calls and we kept ignoring them. Then one night, we were held at gun point in house. We were not harmed and nothing was taken, but it was the wake up call we needed. After that, we both said, "Yes, God, we get this message!" We packed up and moved home in days, and our home town is clearly where God needed us to be.

When I feel tempted by things that are against God's will, I do think it is Satan doing but I have free will so it is my choice and I have to suffer the consequences.

[theologygeek]

so this has been bothering me for a while religion-wise. Apparently, there's God's way for your life, and then, there are wrong decisions that you can make. Also, Satan has a hand in this and is trying to tempt you to leave God's waqy by offering awesome but forbidden things like premarital sex with hot girls (I'm assuming).

So what I've been wondering about. If something doesn't work out the way you want- you don't get the job you want, you don't get into the college you want, you make whatever choice .... how do you figure out if God has set an entire different way for you or if Satan is trying to trick you to leave your God-designed way and you're actually supposed to be there?

I believe that if you have tried with everything you have to achieve something and it doesn't happen, then it wasn't meant to be. That doesn't mean to give up either. You have to listen to your heart. Sometimes it takes many years to achieve a goal. Look at Susan Boyle who made it big in her late forties. As Kenny Rogers said, you have to know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em. Most people have that "something told me not to give up yet" gut feeling. Do evil forces play a role in getting in the way of achieving something? Maybe. But it's just a temporary road block. I think that if people followed their gut feelings, they'd be fine.

[theologygeek]

So, I finally got to read this. Question. How do you know when God is talking to you through people and who he chooses?I think it's somewhat dangerous to tell kids God speaks to them through teachers and parents (I've read this before) because it opens doors to abuse.

You have to raise kids to know right from wrong, so they know that it's not God talking to you if it's something bad.