Dillards 94: After Counting the Cost

[viii]

4 hours ago, Smee said:

Also if we're speaking of TV and movies with AWFUL messages, why oh why did anyone ever think The Notebook was romantic? That's like, a checklist of what NOT to do in a healthy relationship.

I just recently watched this again and was surprised by how much I didn’t remember. I remember loving this movie but now I sat here cringing and how he refused to take no for an answer and we’re supposed to find volatile fighting passionate and romantic. Ugh.

The bigger shock for me was rewatching Never Been Kissed. That movie is WILDLY inappropriate and awful. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

What’s funny is that I remember having a problem with all these movies when I watched them as a teen or young adult. I actually liked Never Been Kissed, but I remember having a HUGE problem with the teacher being attracted to a student. Mary Kay Letourneau had already happened when I saw it and knew it was fucked. 
 

I never saw The Notebook because I thought it looked corny. 

I remember someone recommending Love Actually to me and I was extremely disappointed. I hated it. I thought the guy with the poster board message was so inappropriate. I was like, dude fucking stop. Move on and find someone else. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

I HATED love actually in the day. didn't find it at all romantic and yet every xmas it comes up as a classic romantic xmas movie!

Pretty woman - loved that movie even though even then it was "don't think about it too much" Can you imagine somebody making that now as a big name mainstream movie? Yikes! 

Steel Magnolias stands up to time

I think Fried Green tomatoes does.  Although the "modern day" Kathy Bates character - well she had a lot of issues that weren't exactly resolved the way I would I have wanted but ya know she was happy with her growth on her own terms.

I never watched friends when it came out but later I watched reruns and it was already sort of into "hmm really?" I always felt bed for "fun bobby" that story line played  for jokes but was sad. And monica's whole fat transformation. I think most fat girls would not want to hand out with the people who mocked them back in the day (speaking from personal experience) and if she did - isn't that kinda...unhealthy??  I don't know. 

I think the Bechdel test is a quick way to assess things and makes me feel less crazy when I'm the only one who notices how lopsided things are.

I read somewhere - I want to say a book but I truly can't remember- that there was a study done that most moves and TV have a disproportion of men characters and then they went out and compared with real life and people had internalized this idea that that proportion of more men to women was normal and tended to think something along the lines that if their workplace was mostly men like in media, then it was normal and this didn't see any need for more women. I'm not explaining great but hopefully you get the idea. People were making real life reflect the disproportion of men to women in movies and tv. which is a problem. 

Ever since I read that I would start just counting the number of main characters (particularly characters that actually have more than 1 or 2 lines) male vs female in all sorts of shows and it starts to be shocking how most movies and shows just plain and simple have more male characters. 

[viii]

Not to mention, fat Monica wasn’t even that fat. 

[FiveAcres]

2 hours ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

I read somewhere - I want to say a book but I truly can't remember- that there was a study done that most moves and TV have a disproportion of men characters and then they went out and compared with real life and people had internalized this idea that that proportion of more men to women was normal and tended to think something along the lines that if their workplace was mostly men like in media, then it was normal and this didn't see any need for more women. I'm not explaining great but hopefully you get the idea. People were making real life reflect the disproportion of men to women in movies and tv. which is a problem. 

 

The podcast "What You Missed in History Class"  tries to include episodes on people who are underrepresented in traditional history of the "White Western European Male" stories. Every episode ends with letters from from listeners. One listener was complaining that all the stories were about women. The women who narrate (and write) the series went back and counted episodes for the last year or so, and nope, stories about women weren't even close to 50 per cent.

[Smash!]

It‘s fascinating to think that Friends was groundbreaking in so many ways when it aired: They showed a lesbian wedding, Monica didn’t change her name to Bing, Chandler‘s mother was transgender, they openly talked about protection (when there was only one condom left). And yet a lot of it has aged so poorly. 

[anjulibai]

On 2/7/2024 at 11:17 AM, viii said:

Name trends have always fascinated me. I know males named Ashley and Shannon, both which typically have been considered female names for the last little while. 

I grew up with a girl named Brett and I remember just loving that. 

I find name trends interesting, too. Both of those names were male names first, as were Courtney and Lindsey and Leslie, and a whole bunch of names that are considered female now. My middle name is Ashley, but it was inspired by Ashley Wilkes. 

They come from men being given their mothers' named names or other relatives' last names as their first names. Eventually, they became more common as first names than as last names. 

At some point, those names started to be given to girls, and once that happened, people started associating them as feminine, and stopped giving them to boys. 

 

[Angelface]

8 hours ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

I HATED love actually in the day. didn't find it at all romantic and yet every xmas it comes up as a classic romantic xmas movie!

Pretty woman - loved that movie even though even then it was "don't think about it too much" Can you imagine somebody making that now as a big name mainstream movie? Yikes! 

Steel Magnolias stands up to time

I think Fried Green tomatoes does.  Although the "modern day" Kathy Bates character - well she had a lot of issues that weren't exactly resolved the way I would I have wanted but ya know she was happy with her growth on her own terms.

I never watched friends when it came out but later I watched reruns and it was already sort of into "hmm really?" I always felt bed for "fun bobby" that story line played  for jokes but was sad. And monica's whole fat transformation. I think most fat girls would not want to hand out with the people who mocked them back in the day (speaking from personal experience) and if she did - isn't that kinda...unhealthy??  I don't know. 

I think the Bechdel test is a quick way to assess things and makes me feel less crazy when I'm the only one who notices how lopsided things are.

I read somewhere - I want to say a book but I truly can't remember- that there was a study done that most moves and TV have a disproportion of men characters and then they went out and compared with real life and people had internalized this idea that that proportion of more men to women was normal and tended to think something along the lines that if their workplace was mostly men like in media, then it was normal and this didn't see any need for more women. I'm not explaining great but hopefully you get the idea. People were making real life reflect the disproportion of men to women in movies and tv. which is a problem. 

Ever since I read that I would start just counting the number of main characters (particularly characters that actually have more than 1 or 2 lines) male vs female in all sorts of shows and it starts to be shocking how most movies and shows just plain and simple have more male characters. 

I loved “Fried Green Tomatoes “, especially the scene in the parking lot!

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think the only John Hughes movie I’ve rewatched and didn’t think it aged like milk was Uncle Buck. It was still pretty good! But I’ve always liked John Candy. 

[Travelfan]

I don’t understand why people can’t still appreciate a show/movie while realizing times have changed. I have no problem watching the old stuff and at the same time knowing the mentalities on some subjects have changed. There’s an episode of golden girls where Blanche’s daughter comes to visit and is overweight. The entire episode is based around making fun of her weight. It’s actually fascinating to me as a study of how popular opinion changes over time. I don’t expect characters from 40 years ago to have expressed the opinions of people today. Now as far the actors themselves, if 40 years go by and they personally still have those same opinions and haven’t changed with the times then I may think poorly of them, but I’m not going to think poorly of their character for having the same opinions that were popular at the time they existed. My favorite show of all time remains Cheers, it’s actually on in the background right now as I type. The character of Sam Malone would never fly today, but I still enjoy his character knowing he’s set in the 80s. If there was a character like that in a current show/movie I’d consider him a total jerk.  If Ted Danson hadn’t changed over the years, I’d have an issue with him, but I have no trouble continuing to enjoy Sam. 

[livinginthelight]

This might be a very unpopular opinion, but Grease has always made me cringe. It's nice that Sandy and Danny were willing to move out of their comfort zones for each other, but why does the ending celebration have to be Sandy casting off her former identity and turning into a stereotypical sex symbol? 

[AnywhereButHere]

13 minutes ago, livinginthelight said:

This might be a very unpopular opinion, but Grease has always made me cringe. It's nice that Sandy and Danny were willing to move out of their comfort zones for each other, but why does the ending celebration have to be Sandy casting off her former identity and turning into a stereotypical sex symbol? 

Disclaimer: I enjoy the movie and will watch it if I happen to catch it. Probably due to a lot of nostalgia there...

It was definitely a product of its time (or at the very least - a product of the time it was representing), and I get your point. Even if Danny was willing to change for her by trying different things and getting that letterman's sweater - he certainly threw it away fast enough when he saw her new look! I first saw it in the theater when it first came out. My friend's mom brought a group of us to see it for my friend's birthday. Looking back, I'm not sure how our little, 7-8 year old selves weren't promptly gathered up by said mom and removed to the nearby pizza place by at least the first musical number. 😂

[libgirl2]

20 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think the only John Hughes movie I’ve rewatched and didn’t think it aged like milk was Uncle Buck. It was still pretty good! But I’ve always liked John Candy. 

A lot of the Hughes movies did not age well.... Sixteen Candles? Yikes. I did recently watch Planes, Trains and Automobiles and I can't say anything offended or made me cringe.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, livinginthelight said:

This might be a very unpopular opinion, but Grease has always made me cringe. It's nice that Sandy and Danny were willing to move out of their comfort zones for each other, but why does the ending celebration have to be Sandy casting off her former identity and turning into a stereotypical sex symbol? 

Every time I watch the ending, my brain just screams, “yeast infection pants.” No one should wear pants that tight and that suffocating to your lady parts for more than an hour 🫣

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Every time I watch the ending, my brain just screams, “yeast infection pants.” No one should wear pants that tight and that suffocating to your lady parts for more than an hour 🫣

I never quite thought of it that way. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

20 hours ago, Travelfan said:

I don’t understand why people can’t still appreciate a show/movie while realizing times have changed. I have no problem watching the old stuff and at the same time knowing the mentalities on some subjects have changed. There’s an episode of golden girls where Blanche’s daughter comes to visit and is overweight. The entire episode is based around making fun of her weight. It’s actually fascinating to me as a study of how popular opinion changes over time. I don’t expect characters from 40 years ago to have expressed the opinions of people today. Now as far the actors themselves, if 40 years go by and they personally still have those same opinions and haven’t changed with the times then I may think poorly of them, but I’m not going to think poorly of their character for having the same opinions that were popular at the time they existed. My favorite show of all time remains Cheers, it’s actually on in the background right now as I type. The character of Sam Malone would never fly today, but I still enjoy his character knowing he’s set in the 80s. If there was a character like that in a current show/movie I’d consider him a total jerk.  If Ted Danson hadn’t changed over the years, I’d have an issue with him, but I have no trouble continuing to enjoy Sam. 

It really depends on how they approach the situation. Some of it I can watch and some I can’t. Like Bender on The Breakfast Club. He’s always repulsed me. Even when I first watched it. So I never watch it now. Some I will enjoy watching because I make fun of the ridiculousness of it. My husband and I love making fun of movies we watched growing up.

Just now, libgirl2 said:

I never quite thought of it that way. 

They were insanely tight.

[fluffernutter]

It was only last year that I actually paid attention to the lyrics of "Grease Lightning" and omg I can't believe how many of us watched it as kids. 🤦‍♀️  I grew up watching the same movies every year, once a year when they came on tv. Grease, The Sound of Music, The Wizard of Oz, etc. 

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, fluffernutter said:

It was only last year that I actually paid attention to the lyrics of "Grease Lightning" and omg I can't believe how many of us watched it as kids. 🤦‍♀️  I grew up watching the same movies every year, once a year when they came on tv. Grease, The Sound of Music, The Wizard of Oz, etc. 

I remember my best friend's mother was aghast because the Sandra Dee song had the word fongool. She was a teen in the 50s and remembered what that meant. ITs funny because we were about 12 years old and I never felt "corrupted" by the movie or the lyrics. On the contrary, we loved the movie and the soundtrack. To this day, I can do a mean "Look at me I'm Sandra Dee"!!! My friend was Sandy and I got to be Rizzo. At the time, I wasn't sure how I felt about it, but I kind of liked her character a bit more. 

[Jasmar]

3 hours ago, livinginthelight said:

This might be a very unpopular opinion, but Grease has always made me cringe. It's nice that Sandy and Danny were willing to move out of their comfort zones for each other, but why does the ending celebration have to be Sandy casting off her former identity and turning into a stereotypical sex symbol? 

I was 12 when it came out, and was disgusted by that! I was the only person I knew who hated it so much. I loved the numbers that didn’t focus on “romance” (read: rape culture), but despised the ending in particular.

[Maggie Mae]

28 minutes ago, fluffernutter said:

It was only last year that I actually paid attention to the lyrics of "Grease Lightning" and omg I can't believe how many of us watched it as kids. 🤦‍♀️  I grew up watching the same movies every year, once a year when they came on tv. Grease, The Sound of Music, The Wizard of Oz, etc. 

I remember reading a piece of trivia that said "Greased Lighting is one of the most requested songs at weddings" (who tracks that?) and my parent being appalled. I had NO idea that the lyric wasn't "The chicks will scream"  or that that song was dirty. 

[libgirl2]

6 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

I remember reading a piece of trivia that said "Greased Lighting is one of the most requested songs at weddings" (who tracks that?) and my parent being appalled. I had NO idea that the lyric wasn't "The chicks will scream"  or that that song was dirty. 

Yea, it was several years later that I realized the correct lyrics. 

[clueliss]

3 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

A lot of the Hughes movies did not age well.... Sixteen Candles? Yikes. I did recently watch Planes, Trains and Automobiles and I can't say anything offended or made me cringe.  

I saw a video clip recently with Molly Ringwald talking about watching The Breakfast Club with her kids and having a discussion with them about the stuff that didn’t age well.  

[QuiverFullofBooks]

2 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

I remember reading a piece of trivia that said "Greased Lighting is one of the most requested songs at weddings" (who tracks that?) and my parent being appalled. I had NO idea that the lyric wasn't "The chicks will scream"  or that that song was dirty. 

I’ve always thought it was very clever that they could make it radio-friendly by just removing one letter. 

They really shouldn’t have cast Stockard Channing as Rizzo in the movie, even if she had played Rizzo on Broadway. I think she was 35 when it was filmed - way, way too old to convincingly be worried about being too young to have a baby. Maybe that was the point; the story line would seem sad if she was a real 17-year-old. 

[Maggie Mae]

1 hour ago, clueliss said:

I saw a video clip recently with Molly Ringwald talking about watching The Breakfast Club with her kids and having a discussion with them about the stuff that didn’t age well.  

She must be on a marketing tour, she's on Fresh Air today as well, and talked about watching The Breakfast Club with her then 10 year old daughter. Daughter is now 20.

[HeartsAFundie]

31 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I’ve always thought it was very clever that they could make it radio-friendly by just removing one letter. 

They really shouldn’t have cast Stockard Channing as Rizzo in the movie, even if she had played Rizzo on Broadway. I think she was 35 when it was filmed - way, way too old to convincingly be worried about being too young to have a baby. Maybe that was the point; the story line would seem sad if she was a real 17-year-old. 

I read that Dinah Manoff, who played Marty, was the closest in age to high school when cast for the movie.  When the movie came out, she was 22.