Doug Wilson 2: Christian Nationalism, Dominionism and Excuses for Abuse

[hoipolloi]

50 minutes ago, Columbia said:

That letter seems very much like he wrote it and had his legal team lawyer it up a little more for him.

This seems to be the consensus -- for whatever reasons, that top-drawer law firm allowed Doug to use their letterhead for what is basically his letter, not theirs.

[neuroticcat]

9 hours ago, Howl said:

Short version of the letter:  The "Examining Doug Wilson and Moscow" facebook page is SO MEAN! 

It's strictly an intimidation tactic and proves that the EDWAM fb page is having its intended effect. 

Is it even possible to sue a fb page or find out the name of the admin? 

 

 

 

That's how it reads to me. As best I can tell, the letter doesn't really say anything beyond: hey stop and take everything down and apologize to Doug or - veiled threats veiled threats. There's no deadline to do anything by, no explanation of what might happen next.

Any lawyers here able to weigh in on this? 

Also: the letter sounds like Doug wrote it. I wonder if the law firm is just taking their money and letting them send letters. Because if this actually went to court wouldn't all sorts of things come out in the process? Including how much money Doug and his family rake in? I can't imagine Doug wants that.

2 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

This seems to be the consensus -- for whatever reasons, that top-drawer law firm allowed Doug to use their letterhead for what is basically his letter, not theirs.

I think this is what actually happened the first time he announced that he had hired the firm. He wrote a blog post using the firm's letterhead and then later had to take it down. 

I suppose it could also be possible that Doug is manipulating the law firm and they haven't bothered to dig deep enough yet to see that his whole brand is saying offensive and horrible things. I don't know how a defamation suit is supposed to work against someone who has written all kinds of awful things publicly. 

Also pretty interesting that Doug did not mention the Sitler case at all. So presumably what Examining Moscow has been saying about everything besides those four things is uncontestable. 

I hope, though, that it doesn't end up costing a ton of money for the sake of whoever runs that page. I wonder if it's more like all a show for Doug's supporters. Like they will then give a bunch of money to the church in a show of support and the legal team will write these letters adn hope that their opponents are scared and stop posting. 

[Howl]

I just did a quick scan of the Clare Locke website.  Looks like they are extremeely heavy hitters at the national level and were instrumental in the successful Dominion lawsuit against Fox Newz. 

Also did a quick google and it appears that Idaho does not yet have anti-SLAPP statutes.  

SLAPP stands for “Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation.” It refers to a class of frivolous defamation suits used to harass and intimidate critics.  

I can't even imagine the financial threshold that it takes to retain this law firm and that money is coming straight out of the pockets of Kirk parishioners.  I assume the Clare Locke worker bees are tasked with investigating whether it's an actionable, winnable case. Alternately, perhaps it's (relatively) inexpensive to send out a cease and desist letter on Clare Locke letterhead as an initial step.   

So, Holy Guacamole, sending a cloak of protection around EDWAM, because this is some serious shit. They seem to have been careful to be accurate in their content, though.  I wonder if they had legal cousel initially, to stay on the right side of the law. 

Edited February 18 by Howl

[Howl]

 

[hoipolloi]

Once again, Katie Botkin knocks it out of the park:

 

[Columbia]

Katie Botkin's been on a roll with this. Her cousins could take some notes to revamp their badly written abuse articles.
 

11 hours ago, Howl said:

I can't even imagine the financial threshold that it takes to retain this law firm and that money is coming straight out of the pockets of Kirk parishioners.  I assume the Clare Locke worker bees are tasked with investigating whether it's an actionable, winnable case. Alternately, perhaps it's (relatively) inexpensive to send out a cease and desist letter on Clare Locke letterhead as an initial step. 

What are the chances that Doug will actually retain this very fancy law firm if EDWAM sys "bet?" Is it legal to fundraise among the church for lawyer's fees? I'm sure there are plenty of deep pockets and money wrapped up in Doug's kingdom, but he probably doesn't want to spend it on a legal battle that I'm assuming he thinks will go away with one very wordy letter. I'm also curious if he'll go after Vice next. Those two lawsuits would get expensive fast.

[Howl]

9 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Once again, Katie Botkin knocks it out of the park

and 

3 hours ago, Columbia said:

Katie Botkin's been on a roll with this. Her cousins could take some notes to revamp their badly written abuse articles.

Katie Botkin has some wicked funny satire on her old web site, as well as deeply thoughtful pieces.   kbotkin.com/blog-archives/

[Antipatriarch]

On 2/17/2024 at 10:39 PM, neuroticcat said:

Also pretty interesting that Doug did not mention the Sitler case at all. So presumably what Examining Moscow has been saying about everything besides those four things is uncontestable. 

That was my first thought too, "What about Sitler?"

On 2/18/2024 at 6:29 AM, Howl said:

Also did a quick google and it appears that Idaho does not yet have anti-SLAPP statutes.  

SLAPP stands for “Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation.” It refers to a class of frivolous defamation suits used to harass and intimidate critics.  

I can't even imagine the financial threshold that it takes to retain this law firm and that money is coming straight out of the pockets of Kirk parishioners.

The bigger issue to me is: How much would it cost EDW to defend themselves vs someone who's clearly ready to spend whatever it takes to silence his enemies. SLAPP is such an odious practice. Even assuming EDW has only published the truth and can back up their claims, DW could force them to fold before they ever get to the table.

Edited February 20 by Antipatriarch

[Antipatriarch]

On 2/18/2024 at 5:37 PM, Columbia said:

I'm also curious if he'll go after Vice next. Those two lawsuits would get expensive fast.

Here's hoping!

[Columbia]

58 minutes ago, Antipatriarch said:

The bigger issue to me is: How much would it cost EDW to defend themselves vs someone who's clearly ready to spend whatever it takes to silence his enemies.

It looks like EDW is in touch with Boz T, and I wouldn't be surprised if he offers his services pro bono or at a greatly reduced price. Doug despises him too, so that just makes it even better.
 

Spoiler

It looks like even Mark Driscoll has come out swinging in favor of his old friend. That's especially funny since Mark's denounced Calvinism. There's no way Doug would ever share a stage with or endorse him after that. Mark's got to know that, too.
 

Spoiler

 

[Howl]

I just came across this on twitter. The subject is how moral narcissism has co-opted empathy relative to the situation in the Middle East,  but I just kept thinking about Doug Wilson and the entire "empathy is weak" narrative while  listening to it. 

 

[bea]

$850/hr for a nationally known attorney?  I'd be more shocked if it were under $1200/hr.

They'd have to bear all the cost for filing that lawsuit, getting legal orders issued to Meta, etc.
I don't see it actually happening.

[Howl]

3 hours ago, Howl said:

I just came across this on twitter. The subject is how moral narcissism has co-opted empathy relative to the situation in the Middle East,  but I just kept thinking about Doug Wilson and the entire "empathy is weak" narrative while  listening to it. 

I meant to post a warning not to be distracted by this woman's fingernails...

[TrueRebel1]

3 hours ago, bea said:

$850/hr for a nationally known attorney?  I'd be more shocked if it were under $1200/hr.

They'd have to bear all the cost for filing that lawsuit, getting legal orders issued to Meta, etc.
I don't see it actually happening.

Remember, Dougie put out a plea in December for donations toward his legal defense. Not just a plea to the Kirkers, but worldwide to all of his fans. 

[Howl]

6 hours ago, TrueRebel1 said:

Remember, Dougie put out a plea in December for donations toward his legal defense. Not just a plea to the Kirkers, but worldwide to all of his fans. 

I'll follow with interest.  If EDWAM just blows off DW and leaves everything up and Doug doesn't take the step that he threatened, he'll have a hard time spinning that in a positive light. 

On the other hand, it seems he's trying to raise money to take it to the next step. Will Clare and Locke only follow through IF they think it's winnable or that EDWAM will fold under legal threats. 

I hope Boz T will take this on pro bono. 

[neuroticcat]

12 hours ago, TrueRebel1 said:

Remember, Dougie put out a plea in December for donations toward his legal defense. Not just a plea to the Kirkers, but worldwide to all of his fans. 

This is so gross. I wonder what maneuverings they had to do to do that - because didn't it all get funnelled through the church? How can it then be used to defend Doug personally? That seems sketch.

5 hours ago, Howl said:

I'll follow with interest.  If EDWAM just blows off DW and leaves everything up and Doug doesn't take the step that he threatened, he'll have a hard time spinning that in a positive light. 

On the other hand, it seems he's trying to raise money to take it to the next step. Will Clare and Locke only follow through IF they think it's winnable or that EDWAM will fold under legal threats. 

I hope Boz T will take this on pro bono. 

Oh, I think he will spin it. 

He gets a big donation boost, his fans are like: awesome! Finally! Ugh. EDWAM is the worst and all that. 

Meanwhile, he gets to post the letter that will also impress fans. If nothing comes of it: persecution complex, our culture is too empathetic, whatever whatever. 

I would think that's his best case scenario honestly. The true fans will be impressed, others will give, it might draw new people...but it doesn't actually go to court and expose him. Bonus if he manages to scare EDWAM into taking things down. But if not, he still "wins" in the eyes of fans. 

I also hope Boz takes this on and totally exposes all the stuff Doug has tried to hide. 

[Columbia]

Doug seems to be on damage control. I don't know if he got himself invited on Tucker Carlson, or if TC extended the honor. Lots of defense of Christian Nationalism, no mention of the church's abuse scandals.

He also held a Q & A session at the University of Idaho that some are speculating was mostly Kirk members in the audience throwing him softball questions. 

Spoiler

(Fun tangent: The entirety of "Southern Slavery as it Was" was published in the "War Between The States" textbook that first Vision Forum and then Western Conservatory used to carry. The Western Conservatory edition of the book's been scanned into the Wayback Machine, "mutual affection" and everything.)

Spoiler

 

[hoipolloi]

And an endorsement from America's favorite fake historian:

[Antipatriarch]

4 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

And an endorsement from America's favorite fake historian:

I thought that was David Barton. 🤣

[Howl]

6 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

And an endorsement from America's favorite fake historian:

He's a self styled historian,  "Bill has earned a well-deserved reputation as a man gifted in communicating the story of God’s providential hand in American history."

His godly interpretations of the events at East Coast historic sites are more accurate than interpretive park rangers and actual trained  historians. His company is called Landmark Events.  I think he was big with Doug Phillips back in the day. 

[Columbia]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

I think he was big with Doug Phillips back in the day. 

He was more than big. He was their "scholar in residence."



He spoke at the big history conferences and Titanic events, went on the European and Greek tours. He had stuff for sale all over the catalog. He and Joe Morecraft were Doug's right hand men at a lot of those big events.

[hoipolloi]

33 minutes ago, Columbia said:

He was more than big. He was their "scholar in residence."

He was also best man at Doug's & Beall's wedding:

[Columbia]

On 4/19/2024 at 7:49 PM, hoipolloi said:

He was also best man at Doug's & Beall's wedding:

I always forget that. I wonder how those five daughters are doing.