Maxwell 53: Escaping the Borg by Marriage. Who'd Have Thought Sarah?

[feministxtian]

I love that picture of Sarah and Kory. I really think that her relationship w/him, though authentic is also a giant FU to her parents. Forget "no touch", chaperoned courtships, these two have dated, spent time together alone, definitely are not "no touch" and I wouldn't be surprised if they've even kissed!

@thoughtful count me in on the no cilantro thing. I also have a big problem with food textures and some flavors. I like spicy food but it has to be part of what I can eat. 

[Coconut Flan]

Sarah looks so happy and even normal.  It's astounding how much she changed in a short time period.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

2 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

He'd have to find a different topic from "The <bride/groom> wouldn't even be here if I hadn't had my vasectomy reversed"

I'm thinking it might be a very small wedding, paid for by Sarah and Kory. It will be interesting to see where they are married--the church in Leavenworth or Trinity Baptist.

I think they will get married in his church, and his crowd will be there, but I could be wrong. Considering the church is throwing them a wedding shower, I would expect many of them would be invited.

As far we know, Steve never talked about getting his vasectomy reversed at a wedding. When John and Chelsy got married, it was Marlin who did all the talking and he mentioned Steve getting his vasectomy reversed. Steve never said a word. Marlin is a terrible speaker who was even worse at Allison's wedding. 

2 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

It's possible that their own childhood experiences of growing up in a large family might have them in agreement on two, one, or no kids at all.

It's possible, but usually people who are raised to believe you need a big family find it hard to give that belief up. Considering their ages, there is a limit to how many kids they can have biologically. They would probably have to adopt to have what either of them would consider a big family.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I would say that Sarah could easily have a quiverful mindset and have one kid. Michael bates definitely has a quiverful mindset from what I’ve seen and they have zero kids. If you are letting god decide, then that means you may only get one kid because you got married at 40. I could see Sarah accepting that and not adopting. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by JermajestyDuggar

[MamaJunebug]

15 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I think they will get married in his church, and his crowd will be there, but I could be wrong. Considering the church is throwing them a wedding shower, I would expect many of them would be invited.

As far we know, Steve never talked about getting his vasectomy reversed at a wedding. When John and Chelsy got married, it was Marlin who did all the talking and he mentioned Steve getting his vasectomy reversed. Steve never said a word. Marlin is a terrible speaker who was even worse at Allison's wedding. 

It's possible, but usually people who are raised to believe you need a big family find it hard to give that belief up. Considering their ages, there is a limit to how many kids they can have biologically. They would probably have to adopt to have what either of them would consider a big family.

Sarah’s 40 or nearly, she raised the reversals and she didn’t show much affinity for playing with her nieces & nephews.  I hope if she isn’t that excited about conceivin’ & bearin’, Kory will support her in that. He’s got 10 siblings. He might be more than ready to entertain nieces & nephews & grandversions, and then have some nice quiet times at the end of the day. Doesn’t his church work involve youth? All the more reason to relax with just his mate at home. Maybe, maybe not.  
 

The wedding registries list Kansas as the location.  Significant? We will see. (My wedding-crashing broodiness has lessened SEVERELY with all the recent Covid reports.)

[Black Aliss]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I would say that Sarah could easily have a quiverful mindset and have one kid. Michael bates definitely has a quiverful mindset from what I’ve seen and they have zero kids. If you are letting god decide, then that means you may only get one kid because you got married at 40. I could see Sarah acceptin.g that and not adopting. 

Or she could be like a fair number of women I know who, for whatever reason (usually alcoholic and/or mentally ill parents), had to raise their younger siblings and also parent the parent, and that was enough child-rearing for them

Edited July 18, 2022 by Black Aliss

[JermajestyDuggar]

I actually hope Sarah one day can see the benefit of having a small family. Maybe she does now. Who knows. But I hope she sees it. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

33 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

Or she could be like a fair number of women I know who, for whatever reason (usually alcoholic and/or mentally ill parents), had to raise their younger siblings and also parent the parent, and that was enough child-rearing for them

Yes, but people who raised that having a huge family is Godly, etc. have a much harder time shaking those convictions. I've seen this from both evangelicals and Catholics. If it was part of their religion and family culture to have big families, that is a belief that people have a hard time leaving behind.  

People dealing with addiction or mental illness may not pass along the same ideas as those who have more children because God said so.

[ElizaB]

I wonder if Sarah never really wanted a large family after her childhood experience. She may be thankful to be married at an old enough age where that is not possible 

[IsmeWeatherwax]

If it wasn't pointed out I doubt I would've recognised Sarah from the video and the shower invite. She has changed so much and all for the better! She just seems a total happy and free person now. Please let them live stream the wedding!

[Mrs Ms]

17 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Here 'tis!

Also, late to the conversation about Maxwell food. I also thought their baked good recipes sounded good, but everything else unappealing.

But one aspect of the conversations people have about bad food never reaches me - the idea that lack of hot spiciness = lack of flavor or bland, unadventurous cooking.

I cannot tolerate hot peppers and similar foods - they cause pain! Even strong mint flavor actually hurts. And I am one of those no-cilantro folks. Doesn't mean I'm dull, white-bread, unsophisticated, unadventurous or don't like interesting flavors. These things are physical, no more indicative of worldview than being short or tall.

The Maxwells' burrito recipe sounds disgusting to me for a lot of reasons, but it doesn't sound "bland" - those jalapenos would burn the heck out of me. And I would have gone hungry at Chelsy's wedding, because I assume taco soup would have some of the flavors I can't tolerate.

Speaking specifically of the Maxwells, I do think their fear of anything outside their worldview does match up with the possibility that they'd shy away from foods from other cultures. But dislike of hot and spicy things is not a universal sign of anything restrictive or unadventurous in a person's nature.

Fellow cilantro/coriander haters unite! When talking about spices I actually also mean cumin, nutmeg, (smoked) paprika, turmeric, cloves, allspice and all the others that don’t have a kick too. We don’t cook separate meals for our kids and want them to have broad palates - cayenne, chilli and white pepper is used in quantities that can easily be toned down with sour cream or yogurt until they can tolerate more. And I personally can’t do much heat either. We don’t eat bland food! 

[thoughtful]

2 hours ago, Mrs Ms said:

Fellow cilantro/coriander haters unite! When talking about spices I actually also mean cumin, nutmeg, (smoked) paprika, turmeric, cloves, allspice and all the others that don’t have a kick too. We don’t cook separate meals for our kids and want them to have broad palates - cayenne, chilli and white pepper is used in quantities that can easily be toned down with sour cream or yogurt until they can tolerate more. And I personally can’t do much heat either. We don’t eat bland food! 

I dislike cumin, like paprika, and don't know if I've ever even tasted turmeric. The rest on your list, I love (well, except for the peppers - there's no amount of mild dairy that can make me eat those - even regular ground black pepper hurts).

Throughout my childhood (and occasionally in adulthood, if we were together at the right time of year), my mother made me a marble cake for my birthday. The chocolate part of the batter was full of cloves, allspice, cinnamon and nutmeg. I loved it!

19 hours ago, feministxtian said:

count me in on the no cilantro thing.

You've mentioned the Cuban side of your family, and I know cilantro is often used in Cuban dishes - have you had to alter traditional recipes or request that others do, for family gatherings?

[JermajestyDuggar]

The only spice I actively hate is anise. I hate black licorice or anything with that sort of flavoring. I even hate the smell. I think most other spices are fine. Unless it’s hot. I’m a baby when it comes to hot stuff. 

[Bethy]

20 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Speaking specifically of the Maxwells, I do think their fear of anything outside their worldview does match up with the possibility that they'd shy away from foods from other cultures. But dislike of hot and spicy things is not a universal sign of anything restrictive or unadventurous in a person's nature.

I think that at some point, way way back, Steve said that they try to keep their diet bland so it doesn't encourage fleshly appetites and overeating. I don't remember if that was in a Corner or a blog post or a comment on a blog post or at a conference that an FJ gatecrasher attended, but I remember it being discussed at some point probably over ten years ago.

[anachronistic]

I think that tastebuds probably vary as much as eyesight does people just talk about it less. I’ve never had the test but I know I’m a ‘super taster’ as due to my sensory processing disorder I’m hypersensitive to everything. But it doesn’t mean I eat bland food, it means that what others consider bland I consider to be full of flavor. For example, milk is absolutely delicious. I can tell the difference between brands, organic and non, etc. Stonyfield farms 2% is amazing, it’s like custard in a glass. (Except for the time that I tried raw milk and literally spit it out because it tasted so much like cow manure and grass. Ew.) I don’t generally like most blended flavors / mixed foods because the individual foods have plenty of flavor on their own - for that same reason, I don’t use pepper or anything but baking spices. Plain good bread with butter is amazing. I don’t get tired of what I eat even though others call it bland, because it’s not. (Maybe also I have *so much* input from other senses that I can’t spare the brain to process more complex flavors? I don’t know.)

[crawfishgirl]

2 hours ago, Bethy said:

I think that at some point, way way back, Steve said that they try to keep their diet bland so it doesn't encourage fleshly appetites and overeating. I don't remember if that was in a Corner or a blog post or a comment on a blog post or at a conference that an FJ gatecrasher attended, but I remember it being discussed at some point probably over ten years ago.

Wow.  If Steve even prohibits spices on foods, he truly robbed them of even the smallest joys.  I have no words for this.  No wonder depression was evident in that household.

When the boys married, they might have been excited about having marital relations, but they were probably just as excited, if not more so, to experience flavored food.  A world of possibilities must have opened to them.

Wow.  

[mango_fandango]

There was that time someone mixed up cayenne powder with cinnamon, so they do buy that stuff at least, or have done.

[Hellothere]

2 hours ago, Bethy said:

at some point, way way back, Steve said that they try to keep their diet bland so it doesn't encourage fleshly appetites and overeating. I don't remember if that was in a Corner or a blog post or a comment on a blog post or at a conference that an FJ gatecrasher attended, but I remember it being discussed at some point probably over ten years ago.

Wow. Just wow.  Can you imagine living a life and choosing to put so many restrictions on it to totally eliminate joy from your world and keep you from experiencing new things??  God gives us free will, but to not trust yourself enough to experience things  and live a full and interesting life here on earth?  That is just a sad, narrow minded, off kilter and wacky mindset.  Can’t imagine not being able to go to a movie, watch TV, engage in  sports, engage with neighbors, travel around the world to learn about other countries and visit museums, restrict wardrobe choices, read books, participate in school activities, take music lessons, explore hobbies and interests . . . and even something as basic as exploring different cookbooks and enjoying cooking with interesting foods and spices. It is unbelievable and so, so sad.

People can easily live an interesting, fulfilling, Christian life and still fully participate in their communities and the world around them.  Watch movies but choose to avoid R or X rated ones. Read books but choose to avoid certain topics.  Wear whatever clothes you want but choose to avoid short, shorts and halter tops.  Participate in sports, hobbies, take music lessons, make your life interesting and full, but still spend “time with the word and God” for a reasonable amount of time each day - like 30 minutes.  Steve’s restrictive, regimented, narrow view of how to spend one’s day shows a total distrust for one’s ability to make good choices and explore life. He raised his family in a way that makes me very sad but happy that the children all, for the most part, have now blossomed and are living lives without such narrow, overly controlling restrictions. Hope Anna and Mary follow Sarah’s example!

[Howl]

That wedding shower photo -- that is not a no-contact courtship.  

Wishing Sarah every happiness with her guy!  I hope he's a dog kinda guy and a great husband. 

12 minutes ago, Hellothere said:

Watch movies but choose to avoid R or X rated ones...

Was picking up the van from a large and very busy dealership. It was late in the day and the waiting room, usually filled, was almost empty.  And that's a good thing because the movie, or whatever was on the TV monitor, was showing a semi-graphic sex scene. The woman (a stripper) was the guy's side piece and that was the excuse to show upper body nudity but nipples covered with pasties when guy gets a call from his wife in the middle of it all...and has to roll off. 

Steve would have collapsed on his fainting couch and when revived with smelling salts by Terri ➵ Dad's Corner full metal jacket all over that sh*t. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Howl

[feministxtian]

3 hours ago, thoughtful said:

I dislike cumin, like paprika, and don't know if I've ever even tasted turmeric. The rest on your list, I love (well, except for the peppers - there's no amount of mild dairy that can make me eat those - even regular ground black pepper hurts).

Throughout my childhood (and occasionally in adulthood, if we were together at the right time of year), my mother made me a marble cake for my birthday. The chocolate part of the batter was full of cloves, allspice, cinnamon and nutmeg. I loved it!

You've mentioned the Cuban side of your family, and I know cilantro is often used in Cuban dishes - have you had to alter traditional recipes or request that others do, for family gatherings?

I'm not really in contact w/the Cuban side anymore. They sort of "disowned" me when my mother died. Something about "not being Cuban enough". The cousins that are my age are STILL trying to make like they're still in La Habana, while I live more "americano". 

Regarding Cilantro...that's just a big, fat HELL NO, no matter what. Like I said above, I have a lot of food-type issues and an utter reluctance to try anything new. 

[Foursquare]

53 minutes ago, crawfishgirl said:

 

When the boys married, they might have been excited about having marital relations, but they were probably just as excited, if not more so, to experience flavored food.  A world of possibilities must have opened to them.

Wow.  

I wonder if the Maxwell boys were stunned to find their wives could cook, clean, wrangle the kids, and whatever else was necessary without the everlasting 15 minute schedule.  

[Hellothere]

14 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Regarding Cilantro...that's just a big, fat HELL NO, no matter what. Like I said above, I have a lot of food-type issues and an utter reluctance to try anything new. 

Genetically, some folks have a built in predisposition to not tolerating the taste of cilantro - it tastes soapy and bad to them.   I did a special DNA test a couple years ago and that was one of the things tested for.  

[feministxtian]

24 minutes ago, Hellothere said:

Genetically, some folks have a built in predisposition to not tolerating the taste of cilantro - it tastes soapy and bad to them.   I did a special DNA test a couple years ago and that was one of the things tested for.  

yeah, that stuff tastes like dishwashing liquid. Why I get brown rice at Chipotle. I can think of lots of things I can't or won't eat. Sensory issues + IBS makes for a limited palate. 

[mango_fandango]

I’m not a coriander/cilantro fan either. I dunno if it tastes like soap to me, it just doesn’t taste nice. I don’t really like raw tomatoes, and neither does my brother. I’m also not a fan of super-spicy stuff, or strong mint flavours. I’m on the autism spectrum (my brother is not) but my palate is fairly wide-ranging, some people who have ASD have a limited range of stuff they’ll eat. I was worse when I was a kid. 

[Howl]

1 hour ago, Hellothere said:

Genetically, some folks have a built in predisposition to not tolerating the taste of cilantro - it tastes soapy and bad to them.

We're in Texas and TexMex restaurants these days add cilantro to everything:  garnish, diced and mixed in, sometimes cooked with. 

I have friend who has the NO CILANTRO! palate and it's a huge annoyance for him, because it makes things inedible. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Howl