(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 45: 19 Crimes and Counting; Found Guilty of Two of Them

[MomJeans]

10 minutes ago, Magenta said:

they plan to appeal  

Yes, that's normal.  It doesn't mean they have grounds to appeal.  It just means they will file an appeal.

Very normal.  It would be weird if they did not appeal.

[Sullie06]

2 minutes ago, Freejin said:

What gets investigated?

A Pre-Sentence Investigation (PSI) is a background investigation of the defendant that they use when making a sentencing recommendation. PSI's include social and family history (parents, siblings, spouse, children demographics), education and employment history, mental health and substance history, legal history, etc. 

[3KidsAndStopped]

4 minutes ago, VixenToast said:

I’m sorry to say there is one other way to be in possession of it without receiving it. Nuff said on that.

Thank you-but in this particular instance would this not be the more serious offence and therefore nullify the posession (in the same way receiving has here)?

[church_of_dog]

4 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

I am interested in why this is the case. Because to me, it is 2 different crimes. And you cannot be in possession without receiving. 

I'm not so sure.  Let's say one of his employees had done the downloading without his knowledge.  Once he's aware it's there and doesn't immediately move to either remove it or report it, I would guess that constitutes possession.  Just like if someone put a baggie of drugs in your glove box without you knowing.  I'm NAL but that is my guess.

It also makes sense in the arena of charging him with both in order that one can be a 'safety net' sure thing in case something went wrong with the primary charge.

I followed a case years ago where a man murdered a woman in her home, then used her car to move the body elsewhere.  He was charged with theft in addition to the murder charge.  I understood the theft charge to be a safety net to get him off the street in the case that the murder charge was not going to stick for some reason.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, imokit said:

I don't think we'll see Josh again for a while.  He's going to be out the back through the prisoner doors in the special van.

And doesn't that make this a beautiful day.  

[Father Son Holy Goat]

I hope Josh’s victims and all victims are able to find some peace today. 

[viii]

I am so very thankful that justice has been served.

[SongRed7]

22 minutes ago, imokit said:

No Derrick or anyone else.

Derick was there...I watched the live stream from the TV station and he was shown momentarily walking out.  Someone asked "Derick, how do  you feel" and he just mumbled (wearing a mask) briefly and politely left....declined to speak. 

[Alisamer]

8 minutes ago, FleeJanaFree said:

You guys an appeal is expected in every guilty charge, of course he’s going to appeal. But he would need to find something that went wrong in the process of this trial and I’m dying to know what he thinks that would be lol. Calendar gate? 

My guess would be "ineffective counsel" including their choice of IT expert. Which is likely one reason why the prosecution made a point to praise the defense counsel for doing the best they could with what they had.

I'm just relieved. 

[Skyline]

I didn't realize how much this case was weighting on me. I feel like a million pounds has been lifted from my shoulders. I can't stop smiling 🤗

I am rocking out with my kids. One less predator out in the world 🥳🥳🥳

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

@Buzzard I know your time is limited, but can you chime in on this?  What do they take into account?  Is there anyway his growing up in a cult and their fucked up versions of sexuality could be a mitigating factor and get him less time?  Or is it just based on priors, etc?

Its a complicated question.  The answer isnt straightforward and there are factors we cant/wont know the answers to.  The Feds have a pretty strict sentencing grid and deviating from it is a mathematical process.  Theoretically, if he admitted his issues, begged for counseling, and indicated a desire to render himself harmless his fucked up past could be used in his favor.  We see this, generally, when people enter a plea.  Josh was "framed" and is "innocent."  Further, his family (and most likely Josh himself) do not disavow their beliefs or that there is any harm in his upbringing.  The court cannot/will not sua sponte bring in its own interpretation of the truth of what they are.

I think Josh will get 14-15 years with credit for the week he was in custody. 

[lizzybee]

I criticize Michelle for not coming to court at all whether she supported Josh or not. Today was undoubtedly the worst day of his life and his mother didn't even stand with him. 

We're relieved and glad he's been convicted, of course. Justice has been served.

I think she should have been there and I'm going to add it to my list of things this family was really fake about, like being family first. 

[Clementine]

This gives me no joy. There are just a lot of victims in this, including Josh who grew up in a cult and didn't get the help that he should have after confessing to molesting his sisters when he still was a child. With the proper help and the proper environment where Josh wasn't made the golden child who could get away with anything this may have been prevented.
JimBob and Michelle created all this, but they are too sanctimonious to see that.

I hope that all the children involved will be investigated by the CPS and that the M kids will be ok. What a nightmare for them.

[Mela99]

I am almost quivering (tee hee)

Real talk, which Fundie family will be the first to comment on this? Jillpm or the Bates?

[OrchidBlossom]

I'm strongly considering texting my ex, who is a federal prosecutor now, and asking if he has any insight (even though he isn't in Arkansas or anywhere near it). We didn't part on bad terms, I just haven't spoken to him in like three years... but this is Very Important.

 

I am joking, I doubt he knows anything... and he couldn't tell me if he did. But I wish...

Edited December 9, 2021 by OrchidBlossom
Clarification

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, Mela99 said:

I am almost quivering (tee hee)

Real talk, which Fundie family will be the first to comment on this? Jillpm or the Bates?

I’m guessing both will stay silent. If anything, it will be total vaguebooking and that’s it. 

[shesinsane]

I've been thinking this for days but didn't want to jinx anything. I propose the Prisoner&Anna thread #46 be titled

• 7 Kids and Convicted

And some thoughts on why the charges require Convict Josh get taken into custody right away (which may be upsetting to think about, so spoiler tags were used):

Spoiler

I watch the show Intervention, and one of the rules is the addict cannot know an intervention is looming. Intervention specialists know that when an addict learns an intervention is planned, some try to go on one last binge, and it kills them before they have a chance to get clean. 

Someone with Josh's conviction may be tempted to go for one last incident of abuse, or take themselves out to avoid prison. Taking the convict into custody now prevents him from being close to any minor children, and he can be put on suicide watch.

I would bet money that there are real life incidents that have occurred with convicted sex offenders in the time between conviction and sentencing, the federal government learned from that and now takes precautions (like taking Convicted CP Possessor Joshua James Duggar into custody right away)

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by shesinsane
so busy checking the new posts I didn't finish mine.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

I'm glad they're appealing. More money out of Jim Bob's pocket to chase a fantasy. 

I'll never understand why he didn't try to work a deal. His attorneys must have begged him over and over to end it. How embarrassing all around. 

[pamplemousse]

Justice is served!

Well, as far as this set of charges is concerned, anyway. 

[SongRed7]

11 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

If Josh only gets 5 years, will he be allowed to return home to his family? Are sex offenders allowed to be around children, even if it is their own? 

Judge Brooks has been a real hero in all this. Very professional, no BS. I think the Judge already has a good sense of Josh's history and the fact that he didn't take a plea despite overwhelming evidence not to mention his past history of abuse.   I'm guessing he'll get 15. Not the max, I wish it was more but I'm fine with that. 15 years is a LONG time.  I can't imagine he would only get 5 years or so. 

 

[MomJeans]

The easiest link (has a video) I could find on what happens before sentencing.

https://www.whitecollarcrimeresources.com/what-happens-before-a-sentence-is-imposed-in-federal-court.html

[Mama Mia]

18 minutes ago, Magenta said:

they plan to appeal  

I had to laugh though - the news crew went to the trouble to herd the defense team to an out of the way area, set up cameras, and all the lawyer did was a 30 second “thanks to the jury, yea we’ll appeal, don’t know when, bye” 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Mama Mia

[HarryPotterFan]

The ad right under @libgirl2’s comment amuses me. How not to suck at money: don’t take an unwinable case to court, don’t try to appeal 

[EyesOpen]

2 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

I'm strongly considering texting my ex, who is a federal prosecutor now, and asking if he has any insight (even though he isn't in Arkansas or anywhere near it). We didn't part on bad terms, I just haven't spoken to him in like three years... but this is Very Important.

Check out Duggar data on tumbler. They are a lawyer and have a lot of good insight. They even explained the point system and where they thought Josh’s points would fall for sentencing

[Alisamer]

Just now, lizzybee said:

I criticize Michelle for not coming to court at all whether she supported Josh or not. Today was undoubtedly the worst day of his life and his mother didn't even stand with him. 

We're relieved and glad he's been convicted, of course. Justice has been served.

I think she should have been there and I'm going to add it to my list of things this family was really fake about, like being family first. 

Michelle is now and has always been all about the "precious little babies!"

Once they're mobile they're just a number. I have no doubt she was likely sitting at home with Madyson enjoying that precious little baby. She likely is worried about how this will affect the brand and their financials, and annoyed that now there's one less baby-production facility to provide grandbabies for her to dote on now. But Josh? Eh.