(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 45: 19 Crimes and Counting; Found Guilty of Two of Them

[lizzybee]

I love her.
 

 

[Jinder Roles]

Does anyone think it's possible they could receive an outpouring of financial support? There are some people who dick-ride so hard for the Duggars that they will make any and all excuses for them. I think if they play their social media cards right, they could make a profit. Boob can't be the face of this though, he is too pompous and insufferable. But (some of) the kidults are way more likable. It's a matter of whether they are savvy enough to pull it off IMO. 

Fuck everyone in that anti-contraception clip! One of the more damaging beliefs that Meech has spread is that contraception is somehow abortion (it is not). I hate that these assholes get away with so much! 

@Satan'sFortress Can you please poke Pest, JB and everyone at FRC extra hard with your pitchfork in the afterlife? 

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, Clementine said:

This gives me no joy. There are just a lot of victims in this, including Josh who grew up in a cult and didn't get the help that he should have after confessing to molesting his sisters when he still was a child. With the proper help and the proper environment where Josh wasn't made the golden child who could get away with anything this may have been prevented.
JimBob and Michelle created all this, but they are too sanctimonious to see that.

I hope that all the children involved will be investigated by the CPS and that the M kids will be ok. What a nightmare for them.

I have been listening the “I Pray You Put This Journal Away,” and the description of his punishment after the “Sin the Camp” incident. It is appalling how he was treated: humiliated instead of helped, given no support beyond prayer and punishment.  The previous punishment (for the molestation) was not any different, I suspect. That time he had to help rehab a building, I believe, and do a lot of praying and so forth.  If he was not shamed more publicly then it is because the family and the community didn’t want it to get out.

Josh might never have been a nice person, but he might have been a lot less worthless if he had had help.

[SassyPants]

7 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

Wait, John David flies?!

...but yeah, for some reason I had thought he owned the plane. But yeah, that's a big factor. Abbie could always go back to work!

All of them could get jobs, like millions of other people their ages and with young families. Right now low skilled jobs are plentiful.

[Alisamer]

Maybe JD is hoping that Jeremy will become a popular enough mega-church preacher that he can afford a private plane, and will hire his brother-in-law as his personal pilot. 

I think that the Duggar brand as a whole will take a hit, but I think they'll all individually be fine in the long run. Some might have to find real jobs, or take advantage of the government help they vote against, but I think they'll be OK. They always are. Just like Jrod. They'll find somebody to prop them up.

[3KidsAndStopped]

JD has always struck me as a very hard working guy and I dont think he particularly relishes the limelight either. I think he will be quite happy to melt away into the shadows of relative anonymity, if he can.

 

[SassyPants]

27 minutes ago, freealljs said:

I’m relieved about the verdict. I am not gonna lie, but I was worried that Josh would get away with it all. Anna is probably in shock. I feel bad for their kids. 

 
Josh obviously was smart enough to learn about computers and do some above average things on them. Maybe in an alternate universe, he could have done computer forensics or worked in IT/IS. What wasted potential. I point the finger at Josh of course, but also Michelle and JB for not letting any of their kids explore their interests. 
 

I’m curious what type of law that Derick plans to practice, once he passes the bar. I wonder if Jill will be allowed back at the TTH or if she’s still banned. Maybe Jill will choose never to go to the TTH again. 
 

From things the Dillards and particularly Jill have said in the recent past, The Dillards have needed to set boundaries on her parents.

[neuroticcat]

6 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Not really aa fan of Michelle, but playing Devil’s advocate here.

Maybe Josh asked her not to come.  My son got into problems (drugs) when he was 20 and was facing jail time.  He specifically told me he didn’t want me in court, that it would be too painful for him.  (As it turned out, he pled a lesser charge, got probation, and the record was expunged after 5 years.  He really turned over a new leaf and I am proud of him.)  The point is he didn’t want me there and I had to choose between respecting his wishes and meeting my own need to “be there for him.”   I don’t know if I would have stayed away if he was going to jail instead of pleading guilty and getting probation. I can only say he really would have found it worse if I had been there.

I mention this because there are situations where the mother might be staying away at the request of/for the sake of the child who is facing the law.  From what I have heard, Michelle tends to get over-emotional, so maybe that is why she was told (by Josh or JB or both) not to come.

This is not a statement in favor of Michelle so much as raising the possibility that another mother in a different case might stay away and not be a bad mother.

I think another mother might consider those reasons' but not Michelle. Even though we know how messed up these beliefs are, I think we still want them to have normal parental reactions. Respecting Josh’s wishes would never in a million years be a factor. IBLP is designed to crush any wishes out of children. Their children have zero agency and factoring in their preferences has never been a priority. Any personal desires and wishes have been intentionally killed off by the parents. I was thinking today about how Jinger got teary on TV in the talking ahead about disagreeing with her parents’ stance on wearing pants. She had to do spiritual gymnastics to justify it, was gutted inside and crying on TV, and still had to sit next to her mother getting her official approval - because as a grown ass woman she wanted to wear pants.

The only kids who have agency and separateness are the ones who have had to fight for it in some way: Jill who had to put up hard boundaries to maintain it, Jinger - who maybe didn’t actively fight for it but lets the physical distance maintain it for her, Joy seems on the route to it, and possibly others who aren’t public about their separation (I suspect Josiah and John David in this camp). Jim Bob and Michelle literally cannot see their kids as anything but extensions of themselves. If a kid’s desires contradicts the parents, it’s contradicting Gods.

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

10 minutes ago, VixenToast said:

I’m visiting my sister and she’s vegetarian. I wonder if I can make some celebratory qorn-etti or veg tater tot casserole lol

They have amazing meat replacements nowadays. She could make you a wonderful beyond meat celebratory tater tot casserole 

[Antimony]

24 minutes ago, browngrl said:

apologies for the thread drift but I had to thank you for the idea for tonight's dinner. I just roasted 4 chickens as part of my meal prep work . My husband took off all the meat and packed it up to freeze and started a big pot of stock. He asked me what I wanted for dinner. All that meal prep had driven all thoughts of food out of my head but now I know: I'm taking that prepped chicken and making my version of chickenetti (which involves a quite a bit more jalapeño/salsa verde than the Duggars ever added) 😋

I asked if he would rather BBQ Tuna, or just a Can of Diced Tomatoes (please tell me somebody else remembers Jim Bob eating this at dinner) or Tater Tot Casserole, and he confessed that Tater Tot Casserole was the best option but in my opinion, the Duggars stole that from the fine Hotdish crafting folks of Minnesota and drug the name of the fine Tater Tot Hotdish straight through the mud. 

I did tell him though that it seems possible to make a Good Version of Chicken Etti. It's almost a mac and cheese, honestly, and maybe a roux base could be managed somehow. It seems like a recipe one might invent if they didn't know how a roux made Mac and Cheese sauce thicker, so they just went with a can of Cream of Chicken. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

I think that there are many innocent people. All of their grandchildren including the M kids, but also the nieces and nephews who have probably met Uncle Josh at some time or another. Also his nieces and nephews on the Keller side.

I feel bad for the other 18 kids- five of whom are still minors. For JB's and Michelle's nephew who lives with them, because apparently there isn't a better option. 

Justin Duggar allegedly was having very teenage angst and JB and Michelle decided to deal with it by finding him a wife. I feel sorry for him.

I have some sympathy for Anna, who was raised in a cult and told by her family and community that this was a good match. I also believed she genuinely loves him. Obviously I'm hoping she divorces him while he's in prison. I'm rooting for her to be the mother her children need.

Where are the Kellers? If I were Anna, I would want my father to be with me. Michelle could be homeschooling the minor children. 

I have no sympathy for Michelle, Jim Bob, and Josh. I also feel Mary should have done more to protect her grandchildren while she was alive. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Bluebirdbluebell

[3KidsAndStopped]

I remember JB pulling his face at all British food on the London trip and I was culturally offended. 😂

Which is weird, because with that many family members they should have been a hit over here with their inate ability to queue 🤣

Edited December 9, 2021 by 3KidsAndStopped
Clarity

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, neuroticcat said:

If she put it on her finger and was fiddling with it before cameras, I think that is 100 percent for the public to see her committment to her marriage. Anna won’t be leaving (right away at least - we can hope though!)

I think how long Josh is locked away will affect her decision. 5 years, she stays, but upward of 15 years, maybe not.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

8 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

I have been listening the “I Pray You Put This Journal Away,” and the description of his punishment after the “Sin the Camp” incident. It is appalling how he was treated: humiliated instead of helped, given no support beyond prayer and punishment.  The previous punishment (for the molestation) was not any different, I suspect. That time he had to help rehab a building, I believe, and do a lot of praying and so forth.  If he was not shamed more publicly then it is because the family and the community didn’t want it to get out.

Josh might never have been a nice person, but he might have been a lot less worthless if he had had help.

Sorry, but no.  I went to a boarding school that specialized in that kind of "treatment."  Since closed since there have been deaths due to abuse.  

The vast majority of us may have lifelong scars from that but we don't participate in CSA because of it.  I'm sure you mean well but not all abuse turns people into abusers.  

It was not treatment, it was criminally negligent on behalf of his parents IMO, it was absolutely counter productive to any shot at him being rehabilitated but he had victims before he was sent there.  

[neuroticcat]

2 minutes ago, Antimony said:

I asked if he would rather BBQ Tuna, or just a Can of Diced Tomatoes (please tell me somebody else remembers Jim Bob eating this at dinner) or Tater Tot Casserole, and he confessed that Tater Tot Casserole was the best option but in my opinion, the Duggars stole that from the fine Hotdish crafting folks of Minnesota and drug the name of the fine Tater Tot Hotdish straight through the mud. 

I did tell him though that it seems possible to make a Good Version of Chicken Etti. It's almost a mac and cheese, honestly, and maybe a roux base could be managed somehow. It seems like a recipe one might invent if they didn't know how a roux made Mac and Cheese sauce thicker, so they just went with a can of Cream of Chicken. 

I think of that tomato can scene whenever I open a can, which is rare, because I think canned tomatoes are gross to begin with. But JB opting for straight up tinned tomatoes on TV just is classic. It also makes me think of one of the Lost Girls eating ravioli out of a can as some kind of meal while they were running out the door to the RV. So many terrible things about this family’s choices.

Incidentally, I have made good chickenetti with a flour/sour cream/chicken broth sauce. My kids will eat it at least. 

 

[Shrubbery]

Just like yesterday, I‘ve made it through yet another 30+ pages of threads, only today it’s with all the added celebration (and there was much rejoicing!!!), and now that I could join the discussion I am absolutely knackered from my booster shot now really kicking in and just want to sleep …

But you know, there I am, safe and sound and warm and at liberty, whilst Joshley is in a jail cell and probably none of those things, so, it’s fine 😅

[3KidsAndStopped]

1 minute ago, neuroticcat said:

I think of that tomato can scene whenever I open a can, which is rare, because I think canned tomatoes are gross to begin with. But JB opting for straight up tinned tomatoes on TV just is classic. It also makes me think of one of the Lost Girls eating ravioli out of a can as some kind of meal while they were running out the door to the RV. So many terrible things about this family’s choices.

Incidentally, I have made good chickenetti with a flour/sour cream/chicken broth sauce. My kids will eat it at least. 

 

And yet the kitchen (well, both of them!), the pantry and the land for growing is amazing with all the gadgets and huge ovens! I love cooking and would have loved a go in the kitchen! 

[RosyDaisy]

5 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I think how long Josh is locked away will affect her decision. 5 years, she stays, but upward of 15 years, maybe not.

I think it depends on whether or not JB contines to support Anna and her kids.  Cosidering how this cult always blames women for men's sexual sins and perversions, he might not continue to support them. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by RosyDaisy
I can't spell today.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

11 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

JD has always struck me as a very hard working guy and I dont think he particularly relishes the limelight either. I think he will be quite happy to melt away into the shadows of relative anonymity, if he can.

 

Josh was one of his groomsmen and he agreed to have TLC film his wife giving birth.  He hasn't said one word on this scandal and the only thing he said after Ashley Madison is that he wasn't going to look up to Josh anymore.  I think he's as shitty as the rest of them but he's quieter about it so people don't notice.

Source - I'm a shitty person that is quiet irl and most people think I'm far nicer than I actually am.

[3KidsAndStopped]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Josh was one of his groomsmen 

Genuinely didnt know this.

Grim.

[FunFunFundie]

19 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

Does anyone think it's possible they could receive an outpouring of financial support? There are some people who dick-ride so hard for the Duggars that they will make any and all excuses for them. I think if they play their social media cards right, they could make a profit. Boob can't be the face of this though, he is too pompous and insufferable. But (some of) the kidults are way more likable. It's a matter of whether they are savvy enough to pull it off IMO. 

 

I don't. Last time, when news of the molestation came out, fundies were falling all over themselves to say that everybody sins sometimes, he made it right with God, these people are Godly, etc. This time, not even JRod has said a word. People may support them as a "Godly family whose son strayed" or whatever, but I think it will be more out of politeness than anything else.

[BernRul]

3 hours ago, zee_four said:

I'm live in Hawai'i which after daylights savings time (we don't do it) is 4 hours behind Arkansas CST. So I woke up this morning at 6:30 checked at 7 and found the guilty verdict. Thank Rufus.

Someone explained earlier that privilege means something different not getting off on clearly guilty trials. Not true. BiPOC fill jails for a reason. Look at that murderer in Wisconsin whose mom drove him across Stateline with an illegal semi auto to gun down protestors, he got off. Being a white Christian conservative male means you get to shoot BIPOC and get off. So please don't talk down to us and say our fears Smuggar would get off weren't well founded.

But thank Rufus!!! I can finally get yesterday's work done before my meeting in an hour and a half. Everyone here at FJ you're awesome. ♡

So hi thats me that said that. 

I'm sorry if my comments were not as clear as I wanted but I think your paraphrasing is a little reductive of my post. I never denied that BIPOC are more likely to be unjustly imprisoned or killed by white people, nor would I ever claim such a thing. My comments were directed to some of the panicked posters who were afraid that being a white man meant Josh would be unfairly aquited, and I wanted to give them another perspective of the recent cases where white men were indeed convicted. 

As to the "please don't talk down to us" comment i think that's unfair and making assumptions about me. You see, my family is BIPOC. I am currently feeling the pain of white privilege as we speak; I am nervously awaiting a largely white male congress to include immigration provisions to protect my family after we were almost split up by Trump. An unelected white official already rejected 2 versions of said provisions. The past 4 years have been a nightmare for my family because of white privlige: because a lot of ignorant white people voted for other ignorant racist white people who make racist policies thst directly effect us. I've almost killed myself because of this white privilege. Every night I put my BIPOC daughter to sleep and pray that her father and grandmother will not be deported because of racist policies. So please don't make assumptions about me when you don't know me.

[EmmieJ]

2 hours ago, Marmee said:

Sorry, won't make this mistake again   Back to lurkdom

I hope you'll post again, if and when you're ready.  We all have opinions.  I've learned so much from others who post here, and in my early days was even told to fuck off a couple times.  Those particular posters don't seem to post here anymore. 

[ILoveJellybeans]

Yay! Im glad Josh was found guilty and will be in prison, where he cannot harm any more children.

I hope Anna has family around to support her for this difficult time. I guess it finally feels real now to hear the guilty verdict and have him taken away in handcuffs. I hope she gets the space to feel her feelings and grieve and that she has childcare for the next few days, must be hard to go through such a difficult thing as a single parent of many young children. She may feel she needs to stay strong for the kids, but she shouldnt bottle it all up. I hope she comes to her senses and realises that she and the kids are so much better off without him. I do feel like she should have left him years ago, after she found out he had previously sexually assaulted his own sisters when they were children, after he cheated on her, after the CSA images were found on his computer, but I know that its far more complicated than "why didnt she leave".

I feel for the kids. He may be a monster, but he's still their dad and they love him. When they grow up, Im sure they will understand that this was absolutely the best decision, but its got to be confusing and upsetting for them. I hope they have been given an age appropriate explanation of what is going on and arent being lied to about where Daddy is, or completely left in the dark and only guessing what is going on based on snippets of conversation from their family members. I hope they have access to support and counselling to help them process this. I hope he gets a long sentence so they are all grown up by the time he is out.

I hope this brings peace to his victims, justice was finally done. Theyre probably going through a whole range of emotions right now, and I hope they have people around them to support them. It seems Jill and Joy have supportive husbands, I hope Jessa and Jinger have the same. They were let down horribly by the people who were supposed to protect them. They were not given proper support when it happened and were raised in a culture that taught them that they must be to blame somehow, and that they are damaged goods. They were raised to keep sweet and were never given healthy ways to cope with things or allowed to express their emotions, and their experiences were downplayed and dismissed. I hope now they realise that they were sold lies by their parents, and that what happened to them was not normal and most importantly, was not their fault at all. It must be traumatizing for them to have to relive it all and have it become public again, and I hope they have support for that.

Fuck Jim Bob and Michelle. They raised this monster. If they had gotten Josh some proper help when they first found out what he had been doing, he may have been able to be helped, and he would not have continued down that path. Brushing things under the rug never solved any problem, its just been growing and festering under there, getting bigger and bigger until it couldnt be hidden and left a trail of destruction in its wake. They failed their daughters by not protecting them from their son. Also shame on Michelle for not being seen at court at all. 

Im glad the Holts finally let the truth out. Justice was done, in part, thanks to Bobye's testimony. I do question their decisions to allow Josh to stay in their house when they knew he had touched his sisters in their sleep despite having younger children themselves, and were still open to him continuing the relationship with their daughter until they found out that it was even worse than they thought. I do think they could have acted differently. I know that they were told that Josh had been spoken to by a police officer (who turned out to be a family friend and also a pedophile himself) and had been attending some kind of Christian rehab/punishment thing, which I imagine sounded like a good thing in their eyes, but they should have reported it to the police and CPS as well, instead of just taking Michelle and Jim Bob's word for it that he had been dealt with, especially as Bobye mentioned that Josh's parents did not want to know what he had done at first. They made bad decisions there, although I think they realise that now.

I hope they continue to speak out and tell their story, and I hope it inspires others to also speak out. Spill the beans everyone. I hope this well and truly ruins the family's reputation as a "wholesome, moral, Christian family" and that all skeletons in the closet get to see the light of day.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

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