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Seewalds 46: Arugula, Rhododendrom, Milkweed, Dandelion, Foxglove, Dogwood, Nasturtium, Rhubarb...


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On 1/15/2022 at 9:44 PM, janey said:

My mom grew up in a house with a laundry chute and she and her siblings DID put their little brother down it. They got in massive trouble bad  he cried because his mom wouldn’t let him do it again!

My neighbours had one and as they were much older than my sister and me, they put us down it. Super fun and we were so perplexed as to why we got in so much trouble when we told our mom about the amazing afternoon we had had. 

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38 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

But I don’t see how there is a contradiction? If you decide you’re going to put your life out there for the public, you will sometimes get some snarky /critical comments, you might also snark /criticize right back.  I don’t see why you wouldn’t? 
Sometimes the snark DOES go over the top - like with attacks on Lauren after her miscarriage. But if it’s just someone bitching on-line about Jessa’s housekeeping, and her response is a basic “shrug and f* u if you don’t like it” - how is that an issue? 
 

I suppose background matters in this case. These folks purportedly made a substantial amount of money by touting how their way (and Jesus) were better than the balance of society, so why wouldn’t they lean into those teachings to better handle their critics? Why doesn’t her response make me think and ponder how to respond (VS REACT) in a more positive or graceful matter? To me, she doesn’t walk the Jesus walk at all. In fact, her husband posted a thread on IG about folks should kindly respond to others mere hours after Jessa posted a snarky comment about how the public was judging Jana”s child endangerment charge. What kind of public “influencer” is Jessa trying to be? Only she can answer that question. Further, if she decides to be a “mother” influencer, yet posts unsafe hacks, or a “homemaker” influencer, Yet stores used diapers on her nightstand, and photographs/posts such, she will get blowback and the same goes for the “Christian” influencer who dishes snarks, at every opportunity. Again, I think her personality is the wrong fit for both Pastor”s wife and fancy influencer.

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1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

I suppose background matters in this case. These folks purportedly made a substantial amount of money by touting how their way (and Jesus) were better than the balance of society, so why wouldn’t they lean into those teachings to better handle their critics? Why doesn’t her response make me think and ponder how to respond (VS REACT) in a more positive or graceful matter? To me, she doesn’t walk the Jesus walk at all. In fact, her husband posted a thread on IG about folks should kindly respond to others mere hours after Jessa posted a snarky comment about how the public was judging Jana”s child endangerment charge. What kind of public “influencer” is Jessa trying to be? Only she can answer that question. Further, if she decides to be a “mother” influencer, yet posts unsafe hacks, or a “homemaker” influencer, Yet stores used diapers on her nightstand, and photographs/posts such, she will get blowback and the same goes for the “Christian” influencer who dishes snarks, at every opportunity. Again, I think her personality is the wrong fit for both Pastor”s wife and fancy influencer.

I don’t know, I prefer people - especially women who are raised to be super submissive - to show a little push back from the extra perfect veneer. I’d rather people stand up for themselves, even if I don’t always agree with their stances. But I come from a family of very opinionated, kind of abrasive, women, so it’s the meek, polished, shiny, ones who make me feel more uncomfortable. To each their own poison.

Edited by Mama Mia
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None of the churches I've attended have had housing on site, they provide a housing allowance for the pastor. My current church has the pastor's salary and the housing allowance as two separate line items in the budget.  I assume most of the pastors choose to buy a house, for that investment value.

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49 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

I don’t know, I prefer people - especially women who are raised to be super submissive - to show a little push back from the extra perfect veneer. I’d rather people stand up for themselves, even if I don’t always agree with their stances. But I come from a family of very opinionated, kind of abrasive, women, so it’s the meek, polished, shiny, ones who make me feel more uncomfortable. To each their own poison.

I don’t think Jessa ever fit the Gothard/Duggar/ Fundie script of the perfect woman. Jessa was never weak or had a problem being the square peg. Frankly, I wish she’d let her authentic self shine within another structure altogether. Her current mantra seems fake to me; like she’s acting a part for money-

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44 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I don’t think Jessa ever fit the Gothard/Duggar/ Fundie script of the perfect woman. Jessa was never weak or had a problem being the square peg. Frankly, I wish she’d let her authentic self shine within another structure altogether. Her current mantra seems fake to me; like she’s acting a part for money-

Interestingly she has a video on her YouTube that’s a tribute to her dad. It was originally done a couple years ago, but had a new upload date of a week or so after the trial. I would love to know what she added or deleted!
Anyway, I didn’t watch the whole thing, but in the intro she talks about how she’s a lot like her dad as in being stubborn, saying things off the cuff that she later regrets, opinionated etc. She also says how she doesn’t always agree with her dad, does some things differently. But she relates to him because of similar personalities. She also has said that when she and Ben were courting, one of their main draws was debating theology. I know it isn’t confined to fundiehood, but it’s gotta be extra tough to be a leader type in that culture and also be a woman. 

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1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

I don’t think Jessa ever fit the Gothard/Duggar/ Fundie script of the perfect woman. Jessa was never weak or had a problem being the square peg. Frankly, I wish she’d let her authentic self shine within another structure altogether. Her current mantra seems fake to me; like she’s acting a part for money-

For some odd reason, your comment got me thinking about the Duggar females going to high school. I immediately imagined Jessa being a Regina George type. A queen bee who always needed a couple of friends to boss around. She only had Jinger to boss around in their family. I imagine Jill getting straight A’s and being in National Honor Society and other academic clubs. I imagine Jana being very popular, on prom planning committee, and on homecoming court. I imagine Jinger as the artsy quiet one. Spending a lot of her time on art and photography classes and being considered a bit quirky but nice. And Joy would be on the varsity volleyball or softball team. With lots of athlete friends. 

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1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

For some odd reason, your comment got me thinking about the Duggar females going to high school. I immediately imagined Jessa being a Regina George type. A queen bee who always needed a couple of friends to boss around. She only had Jinger to boss around in their family. I imagine Jill getting straight A’s and being in National Honor Society and other academic clubs. I imagine Jana being very popular, on prom planning committee, and on homecoming court. I imagine Jinger as the artsy quiet one. Spending a lot of her time on art and photography classes and being considered a bit quirky but nice. And Joy would be on the varsity volleyball or softball team. With lots of athlete friends. 

NAILED IT!!!

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4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

For some odd reason, your comment got me thinking about the Duggar females going to high school. I immediately imagined Jessa being a Regina George type. A queen bee who always needed a couple of friends to boss around. She only had Jinger to boss around in their family. I imagine Jill getting straight A’s and being in National Honor Society and other academic clubs. I imagine Jana being very popular, on prom planning committee, and on homecoming court. I imagine Jinger as the artsy quiet one. Spending a lot of her time on art and photography classes and being considered a bit quirky but nice. And Joy would be on the varsity volleyball or softball team. With lots of athlete friends. 

Toss in the boys and Josh would be the smarmy kid who fancied himself to be above the teachers, principal and his peers, JD would hang out in the auto mechanics wing, Joseph would follow his brother and Josiah would be a drama club kid. Jed! likely involved in student council , maybe the American equivalent of Youth Parliament and Jer I have no idea. 

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5 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

Toss in the boys and Josh would be the smarmy kid who fancied himself to be above the teachers, principal and his peers, JD would hang out in the auto mechanics wing, Joseph would follow his brother and Josiah would be a drama club kid. Jed! likely involved in student council , maybe the American equivalent of Youth Parliament and Jer I have no idea. 

Jer would join the Chess club.

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Too bad none of them got the opportunity to decide who they were and wanted to be during key developmental stages. I think we can all agree that JB and M suck as parents and role models. I hope the second generation makes better choices and are stronger role models for their kids. I applaud those who are stepping away, making their own decisions, and perhaps, taking a different path-

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Just in case anyone didn't know, the reason for the separate line item for the housing allowance is that pastors are allowed to exempt that income from taxes. It's called the parsonage allowance. Full explanation from turbo tax under spoiler. I know the Acts 29 church I went to gave $2000/month for parsonage allowance even though the pastor's mortgage was almost certainly under $1000. So he got $24,000 in income that he did not have to pay income taxes on. 'mericuh

Spoiler

Parsonage allowance

Ministers can exclude from their income a rental allowance or the fair rental value of a parsonage that is provided to them as pay for their services. This exemption applies only for income tax purposes. The exclusion does not apply to self-employment taxes. For a payment to qualify for the income tax exclusion, the church must officially designate it as a housing or rental allowance before it is actually paid. A definite amount must be designated. The amount of the allowance cannot be determined at a later date. If you receive a rental allowance, you can exclude it from your gross income if the amount is used to provide or rent a home, and it does not constitute excessive pay for your services or exceed the fair rental value of the home, including furnishings, plus the cost of utilities. If the church provides a residence, you can exclude from gross income the fair rental value of the house, including utilities, furnished to you as part of your earnings. But just like a rental allowance, the exclusion cannot be more than the reasonable pay for your services. If you pay for the utilities, you can exclude any allowance designated for utility costs, up to your actual cost.

 

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20 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I don’t think Jessa ever fit the Gothard/Duggar/ Fundie script of the perfect woman. Jessa was never weak or had a problem being the square peg.

This seems to be true from what we see. Because of her "personality" I found her demure and quiet actions and demeanor during the Ben-asking-to-court scene in her dad's cramped office weird and quite non-Jessa. Both parents were in there as well as at least one crew member filming. Jessa may have just acted the part expected of her. 

 

Edited by Bobology
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2 hours ago, theotherelise said:

Just in case anyone didn't know, the reason for the separate line item for the housing allowance is that pastors are allowed to exempt that income from taxes. It's called the parsonage allowance. Full explanation from turbo tax under spoiler. I know the Acts 29 church I went to gave $2000/month for parsonage allowance even though the pastor's mortgage was almost certainly under $1000. So he got $24,000 in income that he did not have to pay income taxes on. 'mericuh

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Parsonage allowance

Ministers can exclude from their income a rental allowance or the fair rental value of a parsonage that is provided to them as pay for their services. This exemption applies only for income tax purposes. The exclusion does not apply to self-employment taxes. For a payment to qualify for the income tax exclusion, the church must officially designate it as a housing or rental allowance before it is actually paid. A definite amount must be designated. The amount of the allowance cannot be determined at a later date. If you receive a rental allowance, you can exclude it from your gross income if the amount is used to provide or rent a home, and it does not constitute excessive pay for your services or exceed the fair rental value of the home, including furnishings, plus the cost of utilities. If the church provides a residence, you can exclude from gross income the fair rental value of the house, including utilities, furnished to you as part of your earnings. But just like a rental allowance, the exclusion cannot be more than the reasonable pay for your services. If you pay for the utilities, you can exclude any allowance designated for utility costs, up to your actual cost.

 

Makes sense, that's how the military housing allowance works too.

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2 hours ago, theotherelise said:

Just in case anyone didn't know, the reason for the separate line item for the housing allowance is that pastors are allowed to exempt that income from taxes. It's called the parsonage allowance. Full explanation from turbo tax under spoiler. I know the Acts 29 church I went to gave $2000/month for parsonage allowance even though the pastor's mortgage was almost certainly under $1000. So he got $24,000 in income that he did not have to pay income taxes on. 'mericuh

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Parsonage allowance

Ministers can exclude from their income a rental allowance or the fair rental value of a parsonage that is provided to them as pay for their services. This exemption applies only for income tax purposes. The exclusion does not apply to self-employment taxes. For a payment to qualify for the income tax exclusion, the church must officially designate it as a housing or rental allowance before it is actually paid. A definite amount must be designated. The amount of the allowance cannot be determined at a later date. If you receive a rental allowance, you can exclude it from your gross income if the amount is used to provide or rent a home, and it does not constitute excessive pay for your services or exceed the fair rental value of the home, including furnishings, plus the cost of utilities. If the church provides a residence, you can exclude from gross income the fair rental value of the house, including utilities, furnished to you as part of your earnings. But just like a rental allowance, the exclusion cannot be more than the reasonable pay for your services. If you pay for the utilities, you can exclude any allowance designated for utility costs, up to your actual cost.

 

BUT on the flip side, pastors are considered self employed and have to pay both the employer and employee portion of taxes towards social security…and that is based on the full income, including housing allowance. It does NOT balance out being able to deduct a portion of the income taxes. This is our first year with my husband having a “regular” job and I’m looking forward to not being screwed over on our taxes. We had to pay a fortune in estimated taxes every quarter for years!

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21 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

For some odd reason, your comment got me thinking about the Duggar females going to high school. I immediately imagined Jessa being a Regina George type. A queen bee who always needed a couple of friends to boss around. She only had Jinger to boss around in their family. I imagine Jill getting straight A’s and being in National Honor Society and other academic clubs. I imagine Jana being very popular, on prom planning committee, and on homecoming court. I imagine Jinger as the artsy quiet one. Spending a lot of her time on art and photography classes and being considered a bit quirky but nice. And Joy would be on the varsity volleyball or softball team. With lots of athlete friends. 

Ooooh do the boys!

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13 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Ooooh do the boys!

The boys are a little harder because most are quiet. I agree with some of the earlier guesses in the thread. JD and Joe would definitely be in shop class a lot. Josh would run for student body President but lose because no one really liked him. I agree that Josiah would be in drama club and probably the most popular Duggar boy. He’s the type that would be friends with everyone no matter their clique. Jer would be in chess club and since he’s one of the best looking Duggar boys, he probably would have had the most dates. 

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6 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Josh would run for student body President but lose because no one really liked him. 

I see him burying his feelings about the loss by becoming the leader of See You at the Pole.

ETA: I thought flag pole was spelled poll. I was like geez, what poor polish person are they going to encircle with their prayers.

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20 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The boys are a little harder because most are quiet. I agree with some of the earlier guesses in the thread. JD and Joe would definitely be in shop class a lot. Josh would run for student body President but lose because no one really liked him. I agree that Josiah would be in drama club and probably the most popular Duggar boy. He’s the type that would be friends with everyone no matter their clique. Jer would be in chess club and since he’s one of the best looking Duggar boys, he probably would have had the most dates. 

Totally see JD and Joe in a voc-tech high school excelling in shop classes.  And I have always felt that Josiah, who's my son's age (25) would have totally fit in with my son and his crew back in high school.  

And regarding Jana and her love of gardening and horticulture, I could see her winning projects in 4-H and FFA and displaying said projects at the Arkansas State Fair.     

And if I may be so bold as to predict the lost girls: Jenni Duggar, in an alternate universe, would be a high school freshman right now agewise and likely just starting out in a small animal science program at an agricultural high school, honing skills for a future veterinary career.  And Josie, with her perfect pitch and in sixth grade right now agewise, would be all involved with middle school chorus, glee club and concerts. 

So much wasted potential.      

Edited by HeartsAFundie
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I dont understand why anyone thinks Jer would be in chess club. Has he shown signs of intelligence that I've  missed? 

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7 minutes ago, Not that josh's mom said:

I dont understand why anyone thinks Jer would be in chess club. Has he shown signs of intelligence that I've  missed? 

He’s the one who loved chess. I think he was usually trying to get Jed to play him when they were younger. 

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12 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

He’s the one who loved chess. I think he was usually trying to get Jed to play him when they were younger. 

Once again I feel terribly sad for those kids and their lost potential. I feel this about the Rod kids a LOT, how neglected their intellects have been, how little they are encouraged or enabled. But this made me sad for Jer. Not that he's missed out on being the next chess genius or whatever (although some of the Duggar kids are fairly bright), more that he probably didn't get to experience the pleasure of a really good game.

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Yes, remember in the 'I Pray you put this journal' podcast Justin talked about how needy for attention the middle boys were when he went to the house? Full of life and just desperate for adult attention. The twins would have been about four then.

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On 1/18/2022 at 1:21 PM, Travelfan said:

BUT on the flip side, pastors are considered self employed and have to pay both the employer and employee portion of taxes towards social security…and that is based on the full income, including housing allowance. It does NOT balance out being able to deduct a portion of the income taxes. This is our first year with my husband having a “regular” job and I’m looking forward to not being screwed over on our taxes. We had to pay a fortune in estimated taxes every quarter for years!

This. Maybe some pastors get a win for the housing allowance, but the self employment taxes were a huge shock to me. We always were below poverty line and deductions zeroed out our taxes. But we always huge self-employment tax. At any rate, I don’t really understand why pastors still get this allowance - it didn’t seem like a major benefit and caused a lot of headache at first. 

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13 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

This. Maybe some pastors get a win for the housing allowance, but the self employment taxes were a huge shock to me. We always were below poverty line and deductions zeroed out our taxes. But we always huge self-employment tax. At any rate, I don’t really understand why pastors still get this allowance - it didn’t seem like a major benefit and caused a lot of headache at first. 

It's a benefit to clergy who have opted out of FICA, particularly if they are on a 1099 and church designates all of their compensation as housing allowance; they don't have to pay SE tax. But yes, for those who haven't opted out, it can be a real hardship to make those quarterly payments... and hope for the best at tax time. Which is why so many clergy opt out in the first place, to their own detriment (in my opinion).

It's a benefit to churches who have a parsonage, because it allows them to compensate their pastor without actually paying them. Not even in a nefarious way; a small church on a shoe-string budget may not be able to afford to provide an adequate salary (or any salary for that matter) or the employers' portion of payroll taxes. Churches who can afford to pay a salary still have to keep the parsonage in use if it is to retain it's exemption from property taxes, so it is to their benefit to hire a pastor who can/will live in the parsonage. 

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