South Carolina Mother and Son Murdered

[Howl]

22 hours ago, Bobology said:

I watched the Dateline show and the 20/20 covering of the case/trial. Maggie posturing for divorce wasn't mentioned on either program and I was certain that her imminent action towards filing for divorce was mentioned here a few times. Am I mistaken?

Was Maggie made aware that Alex had been caught stealing from clients and had to resign from his law firm?  Hard to see how she wouldn't be aware, but you never know.  I noted in February that my impression was they weren't living together at the time of her murder -- she was living in a beach house separate from Alex.  So...maybe she didn't know, or she had found out and that triggered talk of divorce?

Edited March 5, 2023 by Howl

[ifosterkittens]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

Was Maggie made aware that Alex had been caught stealing from clients and had to resign from his law firm? 

Maggie and Paul were murdered June 7, 2021. Jeannie talked to Alex about the missing $792,000 on June 7, 2021 before the murders, at that time it was just a conversation. Alex was confronted about missing client/law firm money and forced to resign on September 3, 2021- three months after Maggie and Paul were murdered. 

[Bobology]

48 Hours also had a Murdaugh episode this past weekend. That show did at least mention that Maggie allegedly had already seen a divorce attorney, but her closest friends/relatives said she hadn't mentioned it to them. Maybe the prosecution wouldn't bring it up because they couldn't find anyone to testify about it.

[TN-peach]

The Steven Smith investigation was originally conducted by SC Highway Patrol which was highly unusual because Highway Patrol does not investigate murders only accidents.  The original cause of death was blunt force trauma caused by a car accident so the assumption is that is why Highway Patrol originally investigated the death and not SLED.

SLED then reopened the Steven Smith case after Paul and Maggie's murder.

 

More jurors have been interviewed about the case.  Three were on the Today show this morning.  It all came back to the kennel video and Alex's testimony.  They did not believe him and they said his emotions on the stand were not credible.

His emotional response while testifying compared with Marion (Maggie's sister); Paul's friends (Rogan especially); Ms. Shelly and Blanca; even the law partners was telling to me. 

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, TN-peach said:

The Steven Smith investigation was originally conducted by SC Highway Patrol which was highly unusual because Highway Patrol does not investigate murders only accidents.  The original cause of death was blunt force trauma caused by a car accident so the assumption is that is why Highway Patrol originally investigated the death and not SLED.

I think that's right. I listened to several of Mandy Matneyʻs podcasts on the Steven Smith case and, at first, given where he was found, it it was assumed to be a hit and run so the SCHP did the investigation as a traffic incident. Even they, however, quickly questioned what was going on and disputed the pathologist's findings. A couple of local news stories have good recaps & updates. 

[marmalade]

In the Stephen Smith case, it's posited that he was dumped in the road. His shoes were still on, and even more telling, his phone was still in his pocket. Both are uncommon if hit and killed by a car. He also only had the head trauma. His other injuries were minor and again not consistent with the car scenario. 

[hoipolloi]

The NYT has an interview with Randy Murdaugh. 

Quote

 

In the first interview a family member has given since the trial, Randy Murdaugh said he had no doubt that his brother was a serial liar and a thief. He said he also believed that Alex had not told the whole truth about what he knew about the killings.

But asked directly whether he thought his brother carried out the murders, he said he still did not know. As a lawyer, he said, he respects the jury’s verdict, but he finds it impossible to picture Alex — a man he has known for decades as a protective husband and father — pulling the trigger and inflicting the carnage that prosecutors described as a crime of cold calculation.

“He knows more than what he’s saying,” Randy said. “He’s not telling the truth, in my opinion, about everything there.”

 

ETA: These points are quite something:

Quote

 

Randy said he also began to think back on Alex’s behavior in the first few weeks after the murders. At the time, it seemed like the police had few leads, and Randy began to call just about everyone he thought might help, asking if they had heard anything to suggest why Maggie and Paul might have been targeted. He passed on whatever he heard to the police.

“I spent considerable time, day after day for weeks on end, calling people,” he said. But Alex, he said, never did. Maggie’s sister testified at trial to the same effect, saying she found it odd that Alex never talked about who might have been the killer. He did tell her, she said, that he imagined whoever had done so had “thought about it for a long time.”

 

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by hoipolloi

[ifosterkittens]

@hoipolloithank you for sharing the article! I am surprised Randy would speak so bluntly and not emphatically say his brother did not commit the murders. People wondered why only John Marvin testified, and I think we have our answer. Randy is still a part of the law firm, and he's had to deal with the fallout of his Alex's actions in his professional life and personal life, and that's got to be difficult. It must be heartbreaking to reconcile the brother you thought you knew to the person you now know. 

 

[hoipolloi]

Quote

Alex never talked about who might have been the killer. He did tell her, she said, that he imagined whoever had done so had “thought about it for a long time.”

This is absolutely chilling and speaks volumes.

[TN-peach]

Alex also would respond "I would never harm Maggie and Paul" when he was asked if he killed them.  I think there was another time on the stand or in an interview he said "I never intentionally kill them."  The phrasing seems interesting to me.

[ifosterkittens]

1 hour ago, TN-peach said:

Alex also would respond "I would never harm Maggie and Paul" when he was asked if he killed them.  I think there was another time on the stand or in an interview he said "I never intentionally kill them."  The phrasing seems interesting to me.

In my opinion Alex has done the mental gymnastics to pick a certain word choice so he could justify to himself what he's done. He probably feels Maggie and Paul forced the outcome, and he did what he had to do to protect himself. Ultimately Alex decided he loved and cared about himself most. Disclaimer: I don't agree with this line of thought but think it is Alex justifying his actions to himself. 

If Alex's financial crimes had come to light before June 7, 2021, I do wonder if Paul and Maggie would still be alive. 

[hoipolloi]

From years of following & reading about true crime, it seems to me that Alex is a narcissistic sociopath. These people can always justify to themselves why they commit crimes, and almost always the justifications take the form of victim-blaming -- as in, "You/she/he made me do it!" or "If you/she/he hadn't said or done X, nothing would have happened."

I will be interested to see if Alex gets any kind of psychiatric work-up that includes evaluating him for this type of disorder.

Edited March 8, 2023 by hoipolloi

[ifosterkittens]

2 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

I will be interested to see if Alex gets any kind of psychiatric work-up that includes evaluating him for this type of disorder.

Alex's psych workup would be fascinating. At this time, I can only see the defense being able to do a thorough psych work up, and I don't see why they would. I doubt they would disclose the results since they aren't obligated to. I doubt a diagnosis of a narcissistic sociopath or something similar would be a defense in his pending criminal charges. I don't know if that type of diagnosis would be considered a mitigating factor at the time of sentencing. If anything, it would seem to my totally uneducated IANAL IBS to be an aggravating factor.  It would certainly contradict the initial picture the defense was trying to paint as a loving devoted family man. 

Edited March 7, 2023 by ifosterkittens

[Howl]

Legal wrangling continuing in the Gloria Satterfield death and subsequent insurance fraud.  What a total morass of impunity and corruption: 

Murdaugh’s Insurance Company In Satterfield Case Tells Feds: He Won’t Cooperate, So We Can’t Cooperate    One of the two insurance companies that covered Alex Murdaugh in the wrongful death case brought against him in 2018 by the family of his longtime housekeeper filed a complaint last week in federal court, explaining why it can’t comply with a grand jury subpoena asking for records...

 

 

[TN-peach]

I guess he isn't as cooperative as he testified he was.  🙄 Yes, that testimony was about cooperating with police regarding the murders of Maggie and Paul - but it does seem suspicious that he won't cooperate with the grand jury on this one. 

[hoipolloi]

Isnʻt the Satterfield case a criminal proceeding? If so, youʻd think that a grand jury could subpoena the information.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

On 3/7/2023 at 11:58 AM, hoipolloi said:

The NYT has an interview with Randy Murdaugh. 

Quote

 

In the first interview a family member has given since the trial, Randy Murdaugh said he had no doubt that his brother was a serial liar and a thief. He said he also believed that Alex had not told the whole truth about what he knew about the killings.

But asked directly whether he thought his brother carried out the murders, he said he still did not know. As a lawyer, he said, he respects the jury’s verdict, but he finds it impossible to picture Alex — a man he has known for decades as a protective husband and father — pulling the trigger and inflicting the carnage that prosecutors described as a crime of cold calculation.

This. I think Alex is guilty, but I thought the prosecution would have a hard time proving premeditation and calculation. Ultimately it became a moot point, since Alex denied it all and the death penalty was off the table. 

On 3/7/2023 at 11:58 AM, hoipolloi said:

ETA: These points are quite something:

Quote

 

Randy said he also began to think back on Alex’s behavior in the first few weeks after the murders. At the time, it seemed like the police had few leads, and Randy began to call just about everyone he thought might help, asking if they had heard anything to suggest why Maggie and Paul might have been targeted. He passed on whatever he heard to the police.

“I spent considerable time, day after day for weeks on end, calling people,” he said. But Alex, he said, never did. Maggie’s sister testified at trial to the same effect, saying she found it odd that Alex never talked about who might have been the killer. He did tell her, she said, that he imagined whoever had done so had “thought about it for a long time.”

If Alex actually said this, it's quite telling. It shows long term motive and desire. It also doesn't make sense that it wouldn't be Alex. There would have been a reasonable number of people who might have had motive to kill Paul, but Maggie? I said it before, but the defense never really established any other plausible suspects and they needed to. 

[TN-peach]

Also so strange was how he would react when talking about Paul vs. how he would react when talking about Maggie.  He would also react differently when witnesses would talk about Paul vs. Maggie.  He seemed to almost always cry when they talked about Paul v but he remained stoic when they would talk about Maggie.  The difference was striking to me.  I realize that the reactions could be different since it is a son vs. a wife and his son's death was more gruesome yet it seems like Maggie's death might have been more tortuous.

[Knight of Ni]

I was listening to "The Night the Lights Went Out in Georgia." The line "don't trust your soul to no backwoods southern lawyer." really reminds me of this case. 

[hoipolloi]

5 hours ago, TN-peach said:

The difference was striking to me.  I realize that the reactions could be different since it is a son vs. a wife and his son's death was more gruesome yet it seems like Maggie's death might have been more tortuous.

I still wonder if only one of them -- Maggie? -- was the primary target. OTOH, didn't trial evidence indicate that AM had asked both of them to be at Moselle on that day & at about that time? 

We will probably never learn the full truth although between the trial and things like AM's comments about the perpetrator "thinking about [the crime] a long time", much of the truth may be revealed, one way or the other.

Edited March 13, 2023 by hoipolloi
Fixed typo

[TN-peach]

49 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

I still wonder if only one of them -- Maggie? -- was the primary target. OTOH, didn't trial evidence indicate that AM had asked both of them to be at Moselle on that day & at about that time? 

We will probably never learn the full truth although between the trial and things like AM's comments about the perpetrator "thinking about [the crime] a long time], much of the truth may be revealed, one way or the other.

I agree.  He asked them both to be there but maybe he regretted Paul's death more?! It just seemed so odd to me the different ways he would react to each one.  I also agree that we will probably never know what exactly happened and why it happened.

 

And it seems to be from Randy's interview that is one of the things he is struggling with the most.  The not knowing what happened and having so many questions.  I can only imagine that would have to take overwhelming evidence to convince someone that their brother killed his wife and son.  I would think for family members they would need something that proved he did beyond a doubt.  I would not want to be wrestling with those questions.

Edited March 13, 2023 by TN-peach

[Howl]

Might be related to the Murdaughs or maybe not. 

Those who have followed the saga likely know that Stephen Smith, age 19, was found dead on a road on July 8, 2015, not far from the Murdaugh estate.  Although the death was initially ruled a hit and run, the police report from the scene noted that there were no signs consistent with death from a hit and run. The death has been subsequently ruled a homicide, but it's a cold case at this point. 

Stephen Smith's mom has raised funds for her son's body to be exhumed and an autopsy performed by an independent entity. 

From CNN:  Stephen Smith’s body will be exhumed for private autopsy, family says, almost 2 years after Murdaugh case prompted renewed scrutiny

<snip>  About two weeks after Maggie and Paul were killed, the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, or SLED, announced it was reopening the Smith investigation due to information gleaned from the Murdaugh case. SLED did not detail what that information was.

“SLED has made progress in the death investigation of Stephen Smith,” the agency said in a statement to CNN Sunday, “however this investigation remains active and ongoing.”

 

 

 

[TN-peach]

I hope that Sandy Smith and the rest of the Smith family will have answers soon. It is an awful story with no answers. I'm not sure if the Murdochs had anything to do with his death.  It all seems like speculation and rumors regarding their involvement.

[hoipolloi]

10 minutes ago, TN-peach said:

I'm not sure if the Murdochs had anything to do with his death.  It all seems like speculation and rumors regarding their involvement.

I agree that this connection, if it exists, is not clearcut but SLED encountered *something* encountered when they began investigating Maggies and Paul's murders that caused them to reopen investigation into Stevenʻs death.

Before that, the "connection" was a mass of swirling rumor & repeated mentions of Murdaugh family members by people interviewed during the initial investigation.

[TN-peach]

15 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

I agree that this connection, if it exists, is not clearcut but SLED encountered *something* encountered when they began investigating Maggies and Paul's murders that caused them to reopen investigation into Stevenʻs death.

Before that, the "connection" was a mass of swirling rumor & repeated mentions of Murdaugh family members by people interviewed during the initial investigation.

True but I often wonder if what SLED discovered was the lack of investigation of his death.