Gun Violence 3: Thoughts and Prayers Continue to be Insufficient

[Ozlsn]

And now some people are arguing on twitter (ikr) that "well regulated" meant "well prepared" at the time of signing, and I am yet to see any of them explain how an 18 year old walking into a gun shop and buying a high powered firearm and an insane amount of ammunition fits the definition of a "well regulated militia" in any century. *eyeroll*

 

[47of74]

I like that he not only said that, he said it to the guy with the most Backpfeifengesicht in all of Congress.

[GreyhoundFan]

There is no hope for gun reform while people like this are serious contenders for office:

 

[GreyhoundFan]

Gee, what a surprise (/s) -- the GQP won't compromise:

 

[GreyhoundFan]

[GreyhoundFan]

[Cartmann99]

Spoiler

 

[47of74]

Some good news out of Missouri today;

Quote

Gun-wielding attorney and Republican candidate for U.S. Senate, Mark McCloskey, won’t be practicing law again anytime soon, after the Supreme Court upheld a previous court’s ruling by declining to hear the suspended lawyer’s appeal. McCloskey and his wife Patricia were indicted on charges of exhibiting guns at a protest and tampering with evidence after being caught on camera brandishing firearms at peaceful Black Lives Matter protesters who were marching past the couple’s St. Louis home in June 2020.

The McCloskeys pled guilty to lesser, misdemeanor charges of assault (Mr. McCloskey) and harassment (Mrs. McCloskey). Missouri Governor Michael Parson pardoned the couple in Oct. 2021, but it didn’t stop the McCloskey’s from having their legal licenses indefinitely suspended by the Supreme Court of Missouri – at the request of a watchdog group responsible for investigating allegations of attorney misconduct.

Even though the state’s supreme court stayed the suspensions, according to USA Today, the couple has to report to a probation monitor every three months, and complete 100 pro-bono legal hours. it’s a decision Mr. and Mrs. McCloskey say is in violation of their second amendment “right to bear arms.”

Mark McCloskey is vying for the Republican nomination for U.S. Senate to fill the seat being vacated by Sen. Roy Blunt at the end of his term. In a crowded and competitive field, McCloskey will have to beat frontrunner Eric Greitens – the disgraced former Governor who resigned amid charges of holding and restraining his mistress, taking illicit photos of her, and is currently accused of domestic abuse by his estranged ex-wife – if he has any hopes of winning. One thing the GOP loves is a sex-offending disgraced politician, but with the Supreme Court eliminating the possibility of having his legal career to fall back on, it’s unclear what Mr. McCloskey will do if he loses to the pervert.

 

[GreyhoundFan]

How bad of a shot is he to have to use an AR-15 to shoot prairie dogs?

 

[Cartmann99]

 

[Cartmann99]

 

[danvillebelle]

I love Matthew, I think he's a genuinely good, decent human being.  I wish he'd reconsider and run for governor; I think he'd kick Greg Abbattoir's ass.

[Alisamer]

18 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

How bad of a shot is he to have to use an AR-15 to shoot prairie dogs?

 

Tell me you're NOT a country person without telling me you're not a country person...

Nobody needs an AR-15 to shoot at "varmints". That's what shotguns and rifles are for.

[fraurosena]

15 hours ago, Cartmann99 said:

 

Imagine what it's like to be the parent of an innocent victim of a school shooting, gunned down by an 18 year old with an imaginary grudge and a legally obtained weapon of war.
And then imagine only being able to identify their remains by the shoes they wore. 

How utterly horrific. How utterly insane. How utterly American.

Edited June 8, 2022 by fraurosena

[fraurosena]

This hits hard.

 

[47of74]

The idiot in Dubuque who made a threatening social media post is even more trouble now

Quote

A Dubuque man who was charged with threat of terrorism after a social media post in which he threatened to drive by a school with his AR-15, also violated rules of his status as a sex offender.

On May 31st, 2022, David Joseph Hanson made a concerning post on a Facebook page that stated “Welp, time to drive by the school with my AR-15, full clip.” The post was made in a Facebook Page called “I Hate People.” Hanson stated that he posted it as a joke. Police charged him with threat of terrorism.

A new criminal complaint has also revealed that Hanson, who is required to register as sex offender, had not properly maintained his registry. Back in 1999, Hanson was convicted of assault with intent to commit sexual abuse of a girl under 14 years old in Dubuque County.

As part of his sex offender status, Hanson is also required to report any and all forms of social media he uses. Officials determined that he had not reported any active social media accounts to the Dubuque County Sheriff’s Office.

Nice.  I suppose the GQP considers him to be a good guy with a gun.  Fucking ugh.

[Ozlsn]

This thread is just devastating. First two posts in spoiler.

Spoiler

 

I am glad of the bill passed in the House, although it still feels like an almost token effort from here. Too little, and unlikely to pass the Senate. Sigh. Maybe women should take high powered weapons en masse to legislative sessions discussing abortion, and see if the narrative changes. Probably not - the legislators are born, so therefore their lives by their standards are worth less.

[AlmostSavedAtTacoBell]

I listened to Dr. Guerrero's testimony.  How anyone could sit through it and not come away with a very different view of assault weapons is beyond me.  I am amazed at the strength and fortitude of treatment providers who manage to hold it together and provide their very best when seeing the very worst.   

[GreyhoundFan]

Um, Louie, you're an idiot. I went to public schools from 1974 - 1983. Zero prayers were said publicly during those years. I don't recall any mass shootings in schools during that timeframe. Sit down, shut up, and keep your damned "thoughts and prayers" to yourself.

 

[Ozlsn]

11 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Um, Louie, you're an idiot. I went to public schools from 1974 - 1983. Zero prayers were said publicly during those years. I don't recall any mass shootings in schools during that timeframe. Sit down, shut up, and keep your damned "thoughts and prayers" to yourself.

 

Zero prayers (well maybe during exams) in state schools here. Zero mass shootings too. It's like availability of weapons plays a role here somehow... 

[Smash!]

Unfortunately the GOP is not passive. They actively oppose gun laws, they have members of the house and congress who make politics with their love for guns. They don‘t care about a few dead kids. They get millions from the NRA. The bills they make don‘t affect them. We saw it with Roe vs Wade we see it with lax gun laws. Their own kids go to safe schools, tough at the same time they cut funds for public schools making them even unsafer.

Lets be real: All the GOP want is a new feudalism where the elite owns everything and the rest can suffer under the politics of said elite.

[Alisamer]

17 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Um, Louie, you're an idiot. I went to public schools from 1974 - 1983. Zero prayers were said publicly during those years. I don't recall any mass shootings in schools during that timeframe. Sit down, shut up, and keep your damned "thoughts and prayers" to yourself.

 

Same with me - public school, graduated in 92. I don't remember any prayers in actual school at all. And it doesn't matter how much prayer there is in school, it's not going to stop someone determined to come in and shoot up the place. Do they really think if the Columbine shooters had been forced to sit through a prayer every morning in school it would have deterred them? Nope. They might have rescheduled their attack to be during the prayer, however, when people have heads bowed and eyes closed and are easy targets. 

You know what would reduce the number of school shootings? Making guns harder to get. The fewer legal guns there are, the fewer illegal ones there will be, I bet, since stolen guns are likely a large percentage of what are used in criminal acts. For school shootings, often the guns are acquired legally, but by people who really should not have access to guns. You shouldn't be able to buy a gun and the same day go shoot a bunch of people like in the recent hospital shooting. A teen who is not mature enough to vote, drink alcohol, or buy cigarettes should not be able to just go and buy a gun. That's ludicrous.

Training, testing, licensing, and safety requirements on guns should be an easy transition to make - they are "deadly weapons" just like cars can be, so should be regulated similarly to cars, IMO. There are restrictions on cars. You can't plop a racecar on a city street. Those are restricted to be used in designated areas. Automatic guns should be like racecars. Not street legal, allowed only on shooting ranges set up for safe use. I'd prefer they be banned altogether, but I think going with the car analogy to ease people in would work best. It even works for people who want their kids to play with guns - just like youth racecar drivers they can do so in a safer restricted way. See if there aren't any Nascar drivers willing to promote the idea. It's not even a restriction on guns, it's just common sense safety regulations same as for cars!

I can't see how anyone with sense would oppose something like that. It might even create jobs, TBH, and shooting ranges would see massive increases in profits most likely. 

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but seriously. How is this not already a thing?

[GreyhoundFan]

This is crazy. Arlington is no right-wing gun nut area. It's super Dem leaning. But this is where we are:

 

[Melbelle]

Just for clarity sake, you must be 18 to legally purchase a gun in the US.  This is the same age at which you can vote and purchase cigarettes in the US, though you must be 21 to purchase alcohol.  To be completely specific, at 18 you can purchase shotguns and rifles, but must be 21 to purchase any other form of gun.  Democrats and Republicans, including legal gun owners on both sides of the aisle, overwhelmingly support raising the overall age to 21 to purchase any type of gun.  Quinnipiac's latest poll shows the support for this at 74%.  Waiting periods for gun purchases are also widely approved of by most Americans.  A study from 2019 showed that 72% of gun owners (and 85% of non-gun owners) approved of waiting periods for purchases.

Automatic firearms are outlawed in the US and are not available to purchase in any legal manner without a special, and hard to obtain, permit.  This has been the case since the 1930s, with additional provisions added in the 1980s.  There are already gun ranges that apply for special exceptions and people can go to those and shoot things like machine guns, etc.  The AR-15 is a semi-automatic gun, meaning one trigger pull for each shot.  Handguns like the 9mm are also semi-automatic.  Most mass shootings in the US do not involve the AR-15, they involved handguns.  This is because sadly, most mass shootings in the US are actually gang violence that occurs in places like Chicago.  AR-15's are hard to conceal and are not the preferred gun of gang and cartel members.  (Though they certainly use those too. Gang members also do not obtain their guns legally, so gun laws are moot regarding them except from an enforcement perspective after the fact.)  Most Americans (and others around the global) really only pay attention to school shootings and those in recent years have often involved AR-15s.  However, Columbine did not involved an AR-15 and occurred during the Federal Assault Weapons Ban.  

There is a great deal of support, among non gun owners and legal gun owners alike, for reforms like age restrictions and waiting periods.  This support has existed for a long time, but D.C. (both parties) continually refuse to just get it done because they're obsessed with getting all the credit rather than just doing what's right.  While the NRA is often made the scapegoat, they actually have long advocated for more gun training for individual gun owners, as well as for more enforcement of the gun laws that are already on the books.  The majority of gun classes are given by NRA instructors utilizing NRA curriculum that is developed to both teach best practices for using the firearm as well as educate on the gun laws at the Federal, State, and Local level.  

I say all of this because gun reform is very important, but when the people advocating for it consistently state incorrect information and even advocate for reforms that already exist it does the movement more harm than good.  

(Signed a non-gun owning mom, who desperately wants schools and communities to be safe!!)

[Ozlsn]

On 6/11/2022 at 6:22 AM, Melbelle said:

Democrats and Republicans, including legal gun owners on both sides of the aisle, overwhelmingly support raising the overall age to 21 to purchase any type of gun.

So this would seem like an easy place to start, and yet it still gets blocked. If the NRA are so in favour of this you might think they could come out and say so loudly, and support elected officials who are inplementing that legislation.

I looked at the top deadliest mass shootings list in the USA on Wikipedia out of interest - there are 30 listed as 10 or more fatalities since 1949. Of those 30 29 involved semi-automatic weapons (the one that didn't was Santa Fe where 10 people were killed with a shotgun and revolver). Restricting semi-automatic weapons would help in reducing the number of deaths and injuries, even if mass shootings still occur. 

On 6/11/2022 at 6:22 AM, Melbelle said:

Most mass shootings in the US do not involve the AR-15, they involved handguns.  This is because sadly, most mass shootings in the US are actually gang violence that occurs in places like Chicago. 

Depending on the definition used - many definitions specifically exclude gang violence (as well as terrorism and domestic/family violence) and also exclude incidents with fewer than four deaths (there are some that include people shot but not killed). With the exclusions the US ends up ahead of basically every other country in mass shootings. If you included them it would be interesting to see if other countries with gang dominated areas move closer to the USA in terms of mass shooting frequency, or whether it's still an outlier.